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DirecTV 4K UHD plans

DirecTV DTV 4k UHD

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2142 replies to this topic

#51 OFFLINE   GregLee

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 09:13 AM

Not following you.

 

Dolby Vision is built into the panel....not the STB.

 

 

No, Dolby Vision is built into everything.  In Dolby's phraseology, it is an end-to-end project for greater visual fidelity, requiring of panels greater color depth, wider gamut, and higher brightness.  It requires new processing methods and standards in the movie-making business (it has sponsered the first Dolby Vision movie master of the movie Chicago), new equipment in theaters, new broadcast TV methods for the extra information about brightness and color, new set top boxes to get the enhanced video signals to users' TVs, new blu-ray specs to record the enhanced signals.

 

Dolby Vision is a big, big project.  Google "Dolby Vision".


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#52 OFFLINE   WB4CS

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 10:45 AM

The average broadband speed (including businesses) in the US is still under 10 Mbits/second, so most people can't stream 4K.

 

 

Well, perhaps a 4K revolution will cause that to be fixed.  Hey, you never know til you try.  

 

Rich

 

Oh sure, it can be fixed. But at a cost. 

 

Unlimited data is almost gone now. I've got a 15 Mbits/second pipeline but a 250GB a month data cap. I could get 30 Mbits if I wanted, with a 350GB a month cap. I think it's about $10 per 1GB over on your bill. 

 

It's one thing to get more people to upgrade to 15+Mbits data for streaming 4K, but it's another thing to change the way ISP's serve up their data. Many ISP's are also TV providers, so they're not going to give you unlimited streaming of 4K unless it's coming from them. 

 

This is the world without net neutrality. You want to stream Netflix or DirecTV 4K? No problem, but it will cost you another $100/mo and you can only stream 200GB a month. Oh, don't like that? Well switch to our digital cable TV package and we'll give you unlimited 4K streaming from our own library. It only costs $199 a month!

 

Again, my opinion is 4K is nothing more than a fad like 3D. Or 4K will be what Laserdisc was in the 1980s - For people with lots of money and high end home theater systems. The average Joe watching Fox News or reruns of "How I Met Your Mother" are not going to care about 4K. 


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#53 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 10:57 AM

this takes more than Just a "fix"


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Hopefully more will offer really high speed Internet. Last night I mentioned to my wife that while I don't know that Gigabit really makes sense for most and I'm probably not going to subscribe to that tier, it will hopefully drop the price of the lower tiers. Google fiber is helping, and it's not just those markets where they have put in service.



#54 OFFLINE   SomeRandomIdiot

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 02:17 PM

No, Dolby Vision is built into everything.  In Dolby's phraseology, it is an end-to-end project for greater visual fidelity, requiring of panels greater color depth, wider gamut, and higher brightness.  It requires new processing methods and standards in the movie-making business (it has sponsered the first Dolby Vision movie master of the movie Chicago), new equipment in theaters, new broadcast TV methods for the extra information about brightness and color, new set top boxes to get the enhanced video signals to users' TVs, new blu-ray specs to record the enhanced signals.

 

Dolby Vision is a big, big project.  Google "Dolby Vision".

 

Well aware of what it is. There is the stripped down version that gives better Contrast on Dolby Vision sets (which was shown late last decade) and a total turnkey which 4 Companies are fighting for inclusion of the Second Generation UHD ITU standards (HDR) which I referenced above.

 

That is why I am saying you can not just plug in an external unit to make any display do Dolby Vision as the contrast control of the panel is the most crucial part.



#55 OFFLINE   SomeRandomIdiot

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 02:25 PM

If people were surprised that Directv receivers were able to do 3D and 1080p before Directv announced it, they probably weren't aware that those features were included in pretty much every HDMI chipset available for years before that.

 

This isn't the case with either h.265 or HDMI 2.0 support (I think they're going to want HDMI 2.0 to support the full 60 fps frame rate with 4K) Neither was available in chipsets when the HR44 was designed. Unless Directv is implementing a half ass version of 4K using MPEG4 compression and 24fps output just to say they're "first" and make the HR44 the HR10 of the 4K world, the HR44 can't do 4K.

 

Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner.

 

However, you cannot output 1920x1080 from a STB/IRD and get UHD resolution, so no way to even half ass it.

 

3D was easy using side by side that still used a 1920x1080 output. The STB/IRD just passed the 1920x1080 side by side signal to the TV (or 3D Adapter in Mitsubishi's case) which did all the heavy lifting.

 

The H20-100 can do 3D technically for this reason, the chip just had issues with the HDCP standard which is why 3D was not allowed on the H20-100. All the other units had chips that supported HDCP, so it was allowed.


Edited by SomeRandomIdiot, 17 June 2014 - 02:31 PM.


#56 OFFLINE   keenan

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 03:45 PM

Why and how do we know? Just point me to a post if I missed the explanation of how that was figured out. We didn't think the hrs could do 1080p or 3d and yet most did. It's not all that far fetched to think there's a chance a hr44 can. I wouldn't think any others could buy an hr44 is new enough it just might have the hardware to do it. It's very very different than an HR34 IMHO.

And that ad... I'll have to go by best buy and see it for myself. That's a bit beyond ridiculous IMHO. No one should advertise content till they have it.

6q18.jpg



#57 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 06:47 PM

That's a pretty big asterisk.



#58 OFFLINE   keenan

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 07:25 PM

That's a pretty big asterisk.

Haha, yes it certainly is!



#59 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 11:03 PM

Total speculation based on thinking about this for 2 days.

 

According to DirecTV, certain Samsung 2011 HDTV models (D6000, D6400 and D6420) are RVU compliant. All 2012 & 2013 Samsung SMART TVs are RVU compliant. 

 

The 2014 Samsung UHDTVs are SMART TVs, so it seems logical that these Samsung TVs would need to run as an RVU over the network to get 4K programming, bypassing HDMI UHD Color connection.

 

It would seem most likely that this would not support a linear channel (though I could be wrong), but only streaming 4K VOD using the Genie as a passthru for internet data, as HEVC is not available in the Genie, unless DirecTV plans to use .h264 for linear channels, which I doubt they have the bandwidth to use (but they could surprise us I guess).

 

Given ESPN was burned on 3D, as was DirecTV, I imagine they will be more conservative in UHD linear channels this time.

 

I actually expect them to start off 4k similar to how they did with hd.  Only a few channels and with MPEG4.  They will have the room with the bss sats.  five channels will not be that hard to set up.

 

I will have to figure out how to figure out what chipsets it uses.  I have never seen that actually published.  People always just say what it is but never cite any source that I have seen. I miss half the posts though, so Im not surprised I missed it. :)

 

And I see no reason they couldn't do it vod and have you download it to the genie, and then play it via rvu as you suggest.  That would allow them to start offering 4k extremely soon, tomorrow if they wanted really.



#60 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 11:06 PM

They better have actual written statements that say that's not a lie that they are going to offer it too!



#61 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 09:15 AM

Not a chance! The best they could do would be something like: 'It is our belief that we will be offering 4k material to our customers at some point in the future, unless there's a material change in business plans, or acquisition by another company".

 

 

:)


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#62 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 11:11 AM

Or even more truthfully: "We will supply a robust selection of 4K channels - unless we don't."

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#63 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 12:47 PM

I actually expect them to start off 4k similar to how they did with hd.  Only a few channels and with MPEG4.  They will have the room with the bss sats.  five channels will not be that hard to set up.

 

I will have to figure out how to figure out what chipsets it uses.  I have never seen that actually published.  People always just say what it is but never cite any source that I have seen. I miss half the posts though, so Im not surprised I missed it. :)

 

And I see no reason they couldn't do it vod and have you download it to the genie, and then play it via rvu as you suggest.  That would allow them to start offering 4k extremely soon, tomorrow if they wanted really.

 

I'm skeptical they'll do it with MPEG4. Since they need new receivers to handle 4K anyway, they'll provide them h.265 decoders as well and avoid the need for later swapping out equipment for all the early adopters.

 

I'm not sure MPEG4 chipsets were available when the H10 was designed, so they didn't have a chance but to deploy HD the way they did, but they won't have that problem with 4K.


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#64 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 01:16 PM

Well, perhaps a 4K revolution will cause that to be fixed.

Just as 3D will be the reason people upgrade their TVs? ;)

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#65 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 01:18 PM

Or even more truthfully: "We will supply a robust selection of 4K channels - unless we don't."

Or as it was with 3D, we'll offer several channels and then we won't.
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#66 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 02:05 PM

Or as it was with 3D, we'll offer several channels and then we won't.

 

Its all about customer demand. It isn't as though consumers wanted 3D programming and Directv dropped the channels. They dropped them due to lack of interest.


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#67 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 03:49 PM

Its all about customer demand. It isn't as though consumers wanted 3D programming and Directv dropped the channels. They dropped them due to lack of interest.

Is DBS delivered UHD likely to be sufficiently more appealing or find a larger audience of UHD equipped subscribers? 3D arguably offers a more immersive experience but UHD offers only the potential for better PQ.

Will DIRECTV offer a UHD DVR with which to comfortably utilize this new offering as was available for 3D?

How do they market it against their standard product?

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#68 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 04:55 PM

Is DBS delivered UHD likely to be sufficiently more appealing or find a larger audience of UHD equipped subscribers? 3D arguably offers a more immersive experience but UHD offers only the potential for better PQ.

Will DIRECTV offer a UHD DVR with which to comfortably utilize this new offering as was available for 3D?

How do they market it against their standard product?

 

What difference does "DBS delivered" 4K make versus "cable delivered" or "fiber delivered" or "internet delivered" 4K? The delivery method is independent of the quality, bit rate is a choice, it is not mandated by the technology.

 

I'm not sure what you're asking here about whether Directv will offer a UHD DVR? They have to offer hardware capable of outputting 4K or there isn't much point in trying to deliver 4K channels, is there?

 

I have no idea whether 4K will succeed, if I had to bet I would say it won't, but my opinion doesn't matter. The public has made Honey Boo Boo a star, so they will do what they want regardless of what I think :)


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#69 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 07:04 PM

...How do they market it against their standard product?


Simple...it will BE the standard product. If the HR44 can't output a 4K HDMI signal (and I agree it is unlikely, given the vintage of everything else on the MB) then the next Genie will. Of course, as has been pointed out elsewhere, you don't need to send it out the HDMI port if you have a 4K RVU capable TV. But just like 3D Broadcom will build it into the silicon and there will be no incremental cost to speak of in the hardware.

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#70 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 08:09 PM

next box wouldn't be named genie ;)



#71 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 09:51 PM

next box wouldn't be named genie ;)


Ultra Genie? :D
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#72 OFFLINE   SomeRandomIdiot

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 12:24 AM

P

 

next box wouldn't be named genie ;)

 

You see anything on a transponder that indicates any type of UHD testing?



#73 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 04:28 AM

P

 

 

You see anything on a transponder that indicates any type of UHD testing?

Considering data the satellite TPN maps are based upon can see the compression format used, but not the actual resolution of the images being compressed. Unless DIRECTV mentions it as such under the various "NOTES" category, would a UHD program stream using MPEG-4 (at least initially) appear any different than a current MPEG-4 HD or SD stream?   


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#74 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 05:47 AM

Simple...it will BE the standard product. If the HR44 can't output a 4K HDMI signal (and I agree it is unlikely, given the vintage of everything else on the MB) then the next Genie will. Of course, as has been pointed out elsewhere, you don't need to send it out the HDMI port if you have a 4K RVU capable TV. But just like 3D Broadcom will build it into the silicon and there will be no incremental cost to speak of in the hardware.

I have a feeling that there will be some interesting developments when it comes to both how 4K is offered and also what it takes to deploy content in this format. The latest technology for 4K content in terms of compression and distribution includes some flexibilities.


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#75 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 06:47 AM

next box wouldn't be named genie ;)


If that turns out to be true, it would be dumb marketing. They have spent a lot of money establishing the Genie name in the marketplace. To come out with a new name would be a waste of money.

I expect that the Genie name will be around for quite a while. The next unit will have a different model number (HR54?) but I'll make a wager that it is still called Genie.
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