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New AIM Meter?

satellite meter aim meter directv meter

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36 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 11:43 AM

I haven't used the other but does it have all the features the AIM does for DirecTV?

 

Since the IV protocol is proprietary to DirecTV® only the AIM can do that and that is a HUGE plus.  

 

 

About the only thing AIM is missing is the DECA tests

 

DirecTV® made a dumb move by not including this on new revived new AIM

 

 

Just give me the dBm and I'd decide if its good or not.

 

If DirecTV® was nice enough to publish a “metric” of dBs of what is good and what is bad, this would make a lot of sense.  But given that a lot of DirecTV® installer base have no clue what a dBm is, this is why the included the “guided mode”


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


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#22 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 12:10 PM

So what would make it faster? A faster processor? Better written software? Or perhaps a combination of both?

 

If it takes 55 seconds to boot, a faster processor is unlikely to do much. If VOS is correct and it is essentially a PC (running Windows XP embedded or something like that) then it is probably doing a whole lot of stuff on bootup that is not necessary to it being a meter, but just getting the OS up to the point where the meter application can run.

 

If it supported a sleep state that used very little power then it wouldn't matter. You'd boot it up in the morning, use it all day with nearly instant waking leaving you not caring how long it takes to boot, then shut it down at the end of the day.

 

I think ZandarKoad is probably on the mark with his comment about a captive audience. It will sell regardless of how well or poorly it is designed since Directv installers need to have it.


SL5, PI-6S, SA-6AL 3xSWM16, 21 H20-100, 1 H20-600, 7 H24-700/AM21


#23 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 12:18 PM

Since the IV protocol is proprietary to DirecTV® only the AIM can do that and that is a HUGE plus.  

 

 

DirecTV® made a dumb move by not including this on new revived new AIM

 

There's probably no reason they felt they had to keep the IV protocol proprietary, but if they told everyone "here's how IV works so you can program it into other meters" then it would be essentially impossible to update it in the future if they wanted to change how it works. Including it in the AIM they can tell installers they need to upgrade their firmware if they want to push out a change to IV.

 

Does the new AIM not do IV? Or did your last comment mean something else?

 

 

 

If DirecTV® was nice enough to publish a “metric” of dBs of what is good and what is bad, this would make a lot of sense.  But given that a lot of DirecTV® installer base have no clue what a dBm is, this is why the included the “guided mode”

 

So what happens if they say that transponder 9 on 103ca has to be at least x dbm, someone programs that into their meter software, and Directv changes things around with their satellite fleet and 103ca transponder 9 becomes a spot beam?

 

If they could rely on meters having an internet connection it wouldn't matter. They could upload their readings to a Directv web site and be told whether they pass IV or not.


SL5, PI-6S, SA-6AL 3xSWM16, 21 H20-100, 1 H20-600, 7 H24-700/AM21


#24 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 12:32 PM

There's probably no reason they felt they had to keep the IV protocol proprietary,

See, this is what happens when some one post without knowing how "stuff works"  there is a history behind IV.  Back in the days, before IV was shut down on inclement weather days, a tech had to call ISS to get a waiver if IV failed at the receiver.  ISS would then ask the tech the to read to them the signal on certain transponders from all satellite.  If a tech knew what these value were, then they could lie they way out to get a waiver.  Now since IV is turn off during inclement weather days, they only way IV could fail is because of poor alignment, LOS, or bad equipment some where. So now there is really no reason to call DirecTV® for a waiver now a days.  The only time I had to call ISS for a waiver recently is when the market is in "soft turn off" at that means that the market could be turn off if the weather gets bad enough but but is not there yet. 


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#25 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 12:33 PM

 

 

Does the new AIM not do IV? Or did your last comment mean something else?

 

Of course it does!  I was referring to DECA 


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#26 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 12:37 PM

 

So what happens if they say that transponder 9 on 103ca has to be at least x dbm, someone programs that into their meter software, and Directv changes things around with their satellite fleet and 103ca transponder 9 becomes a spot beam?

 

 

This does not change the fact when something is or not “broken” so let's assume that that on a scale from 1 to 15 where 15 is the best dBm one could possible get, DirecTV® says 11 is the least that is acceptable for good performance. That is what I am referring to.  The scale that user perter posted relating two values signal quality vs SNR should be a something that every tech should have on their “handbook” 


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#27 OFFLINE   ZandarKoad

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 05:49 PM

The AIM is fairly powerful for only DirecTV systems, BUT what I personally don't like about it is:

By design the "intelligence" was put into the meter.

I'm "old school" where the user should have the "intelligence" and the meter is merely a tool.

The AIM supports DirecTV's idea of "teaching" installers to follow dos & don'ts without understanding why or how the system works.

"Any idiot" can follow the menu buttons and "find the cheese" at the end of the maze.

"A Technician" knows how it works and uses their intelligence to find something wrong, or not up to specs.

 

I don't need to stinking meter to tell me "pass/fail".

Just give me the dBm and I'd decide if its good or not.

 

/soapbox

:lol:   

THIS!  I REALLY don't need any trouble shooting procedures in a METER.  Put that crap in a manual...  But I guess if I was trying to hire $10/hr employees, I'd do the same thing...

 

I personally prefer to peak off the actual (simulated) IRD quality numbers, since those are the numbers the IRD gives inside.  I'm used to looking for at least 85 on 99 and 103.



#28 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 05:55 PM

THIS!  I REALLY don't need any trouble shooting procedures in a METER.  Put that crap in a manual...  But I guess if I was trying to hire $10/hr employees, I'd do the same thing...

 

I personally prefer to peak off the actual (simulated) IRD quality numbers, since those are the numbers the IRD gives inside.  I'm used to looking for at least 85 on 99 and 103.

Just use the CNR values and you'll be good.

Since the Ka beams are the narrowest, coarse tune off 101 then find the weakest ka and fine tune off it and you'll be in the best shape.

103 seems to be the weak one for the east coast & 99 for the west coast. 


A.K.A VOS

#29 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 10:12 AM

I was curious so I took a quick look at the firmware. The AIM is a handheld Linux computer, it would go through BIOS startup, the full boot process, and auto user login before it is finally able to start the AIM application.

 

Still, 55 seconds to boot is a lot, but it may be a bit memory starved or use cheap slow flash.


Edited by slice1900, 07 July 2014 - 10:13 AM.

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#30 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 09:12 PM

 use cheap slow flash.

I put my money on that one!


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#31 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 09:42 AM

Definitely not a speed of flash, you must watch POST messages and OS printtouts to begin make any conclusion. It could be time consuming to do a calibration of RF measuring components...

#32 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 02:15 PM

Definitely not a speed of flash, you must watch POST messages and OS printtouts to begin make any conclusion. It could be time consuming to do a calibration of RF measuring components...

 

If that's the case, why does the other meter mentioned start up in 2-3 seconds?


SL5, PI-6S, SA-6AL 3xSWM16, 21 H20-100, 1 H20-600, 7 H24-700/AM21


#33 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 04:20 PM

If that's the case, why does the other meter mentioned start up in 2-3 seconds?

"I'd say" the other is more of a meter than a computer.

A fluke digital multi-meter "boots" in secs.

The AIM needs to run routines to boot.


A.K.A VOS

#34 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 04:33 PM

Btw, some Fluke DMM does running Linux. As to AIM HW revisions, slice1600 did you look into FW of other older model?

#35 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 04:52 PM

Btw, some Fluke DMM does running Linux. As to AIM HW revisions, slice1600 did you look into FW of other older model?

 

I saw a link to the latest firmware, which was a zip file. Downloaded that and opened it, and it was immediately apparent it was Linux. Didn't check other versions, wouldn't even know where to find them. But if the directory structure is the same, same files /etc and so forth, that older version would also be Linux.


SL5, PI-6S, SA-6AL 3xSWM16, 21 H20-100, 1 H20-600, 7 H24-700/AM21


#36 OFFLINE   ZandarKoad

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 09:21 PM

I'm using the TEST -> SATELLITE TUNE -> SELECT method as suggested by peds48.  I must say, I'm absolutely loving it.  No more wondering if 99 and 103 are what they should be.  Finally, after all these years of speculation, I can confirm the AIM does in fact result in more accurate peaking of HD DirecTV dishes, and in a shorter amount of time (no dithering needed).  Never the less, my AI Turbo S2 is irreplaceable for all the other systems out there.  I'm very glad I have both.

 

And, oddly enough, I'm the ONLY contracting sat tech I've ever known who owns EITHER of these meters.  MUCH LESS BOTH of them!  :D



#37 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 10:46 PM

....  I'm very glad I have both.

 

And, oddly enough, I'm the ONLY contracting sat tech I've ever known who owns EITHER of these meters.  MUCH LESS BOTH of them!   :D

If I would you, I would pat my shoulder sometimes :D






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