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Internal and External Drive Interaction on Genie HR-44


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#1 OFFLINE   DeweySat

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 04:27 PM

I solved my intermittent black screen on fast forward problem by installing an external SATA drive.  Now I am wondering what happens if the internal drive goes out completely.  Doesn't the Genie use something on the internal drive even though you have an external drive operating?  I have read that you can't just take out the internal drive.  It has to stay even though it isn't the primary drive.  Is that correct?

 

 



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#2 OFFLINE   hasan

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 05:10 PM

Yes, the internal has to stay, but not necessarily because it is being used for something. It is being "detected" by the software as present, even if there is an external. So the internal can be in pretty bad shape and still let an external work. Whether it can be completely shot, I don't know. I've used externals on all my dvrs for quite a few years and currently have 2 TB drives on both my HR44-700 and HR24-200. 


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#3 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 05:29 PM

It's been so long since I had mine open but I want to say I don't have an internal drive in my HR44.  If I think about it I'll check when I get a chance.

 

I do remember however that older HR2X models did require the internal to be there.  Something about the temp sensor.   (Man, I'm getting old)


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#4 OFFLINE   DeweySat

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 05:48 PM

It's been so long since I had mine open but I want to say I don't have an internal drive in my HR44.  If I think about it I'll check when I get a chance.

 

I do remember however that older HR2X models did require the internal to be there.  Something about the temp sensor.   (Man, I'm getting old)

Do you remember how you got around the apparent requirement for the HR-44 to "sense" an internal drive?



#5 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 06:49 PM

Do you remember how you got around the apparent requirement for the HR-44 to "sense" an internal drive?

 

That's my point, I don't think there is one.


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#6 OFFLINE   DeweySat

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 08:14 PM

That's my point, I don't think there is one.

But if you possibly don't have an internal drive in your Genie???



#7 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 08:22 PM

But if you possibly don't have an internal drive in your Genie???

 

I'm pretty sure I don't and did nothing to get around any sensing of an internal drive, again my point...


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#8 ONLINE   acostapimps

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 03:39 AM

Wait how does that Genie not have a internal drive and still works?   I know it can be replaced with external for video

But don't other things inside the receiver factor in the use of a internal drive,  or does the power supply do the rest of the work internally or externally?


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#9 OFFLINE   fudpucker

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 07:35 AM

What is the best strategy on a new install of an HR-44 in terms of installing a new external sATA drive? I have read the largest external I can use is 2T? Should I just install it as soon as the installer leaves, before making any recordings at all?



#10 OFFLINE   DeweySat

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 07:54 AM

Just be aware that you will lose all recordings and anything you have added to the Series Manager.  So the sooner you do it, the less work it will be.  Of course they will still be on the internal drive, but it means a restart of the receiver to access them.



#11 OFFLINE   bpratt

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 11:18 AM

What is the best strategy on a new install of an HR-44 in terms of installing a new external sATA drive? I have read the largest external I can use is 2T? Should I just install it as soon as the installer leaves, before making any recordings at all?

The largest external you can use on an HR-44 is 4T.  Up to 2T you can just attach the external drive and the HR44 will format it and it will then be used.  If you are installing a disk that is greater than 2T, you will need to format it on your PC before you attach it the the HR44.


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#12 OFFLINE   Bill Broderick

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 12:13 PM

The largest external you can use on an HR-44 is 4T.  Up to 2T you can just attach the external drive and the HR44 will format it and it will then be used.  If you are installing a disk that is greater than 2T, you will need to format it on your PC before you attach it the the HR44.

 

Nobody has yet determined that their is actually a size limit for the HR44.  I believe that someone (RunnerFL?) has tested a RAID array of somewhere around 10TB with no issues. 

 

Regarding the need to format drives larger than 2TB, that is not true of all HR44 sub-models.  Some require that the drive at least be initialized (format not actually required) by a PC or Mac.  Others don't require anything to be done before connecting the drive.  As long as you have an eSata connection on your computer or a USB connection on your enclosure, it makes sense to connect the drive and initialize it prior to connecting to an HR44.



#13 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 02:02 PM

The largest external you can use on an HR-44 is 4T.  Up to 2T you can just attach the external drive and the HR44 will format it and it will then be used.  If you are installing a disk that is greater than 2T, you will need to format it on your PC before you attach it the the HR44.

 

Incorrect, there is no size limit on an HR44 or HR34.  I've tested up to 12TB successfully.


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#14 OFFLINE   unixguru

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 02:24 PM

Wait how does that Genie not have a internal drive and still works?   I know it can be replaced with external for video

But don't other things inside the receiver factor in the use of a internal drive,  or does the power supply do the rest of the work internally or externally?

 

The software is in flash.  When an external is connected it doesn't use the internal for storage.



#15 OFFLINE   TomCat

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 02:06 PM

I am not convinced you need the internal. I am convinced it is better to leave the internal alone, regardless of whether you add an X drive or not.

 

The reason I say this is I ran a HR20 for about 15 months, and then got a overtemp error that could not be resolved. I disconnected the X drive to go to the internal, and that did not work.

 

When I popped the hood I discovered that I had disabled the internal by removing the SATA cable and power, apparently just after receiving it 15 months ago, and hooked up the X only at that time.

 

So I hooked up the internal, but that did not immediately fix anything. It did a drive scan on its own and found some 3580 errors (on the drive I never even used). It fixed these errors in probably about 36 hours, and then was OK. I hooked the X back up and it has been working ever since, which was a couple months ago.

 

So, much of that is somewhat unexplainable, but the fact remains I ran with the X connected and the internal disconnected, for a considerably long time.

 

My understanding is that there is a hybrid OS, some things are in flash and some are on the HDD, which is why you can essentially stuff a blank formatted drive in and be good to go. It seems there is a fixed BIOS-like startup order, meaning it looks for a drive externally and mounts that if available, and if not it moves to the internal. But it will not mount both drives, which is unfortunate.


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#16 OFFLINE   fudpucker

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:24 AM

OK, sounds like if I format the drive on my PC (any details on what to do or not do in the format?) I can attach, say, a 4T external to my Genie when I get it. One other question: is the speed of operations that access the drive noticeably slower when using the external vs. internal on the Genie? I know it is a completely different setup/functionality but on my Dish DVRs the external USB drive is much slower in terms of viewing the list, deleting, etc. than the built in drives.



#17 OFFLINE   DeweySat

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:48 AM

I don't notice any difference in speed between the external and internal drives.  Of course I am using a WD My Book AV which was specifically designed for use with DVR's.



#18 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:57 AM

OK, sounds like if I format the drive on my PC (any details on what to do or not do in the format?) I can attach, say, a 4T external to my Genie when I get it. One other question: is the speed of operations that access the drive noticeably slower when using the external vs. internal on the Genie? I know it is a completely different setup/functionality but on my Dish DVRs the external USB drive is much slower in terms of viewing the list, deleting, etc. than the built in drives.

 

You don't even have the format it, just let the PC initialize it.   No, no speed difference at all.


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#19 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:39 AM

Yes, the internal has to stay, but not necessarily because it is being used for something. It is being "detected" by the software as present, even if there is an external. So the internal can be in pretty bad shape and still let an external work. Whether it can be completely shot, I don't know. I've used externals on all my dvrs for quite a few years and currently have 2 TB drives on both my HR44-700 and HR24-200. 

 

I used an external on an owned HR that I just didn't feel like taking apart that had a bad 1.5 Seagate Barracuda in it.  At the time, I wondered if the external would work, but it did.  Using just the internal drive, I couldn't get it to boot up.  I left that external on that HR for a couple years without any problems.  Don't know if you can still do that, tho.

 

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#20 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:42 AM

It's been so long since I had mine open but I want to say I don't have an internal drive in my HR44.  If I think about it I'll check when I get a chance.

 

I do remember however that older HR2X models did require the internal to be there.  Something about the temp sensor.   (Man, I'm getting old)

 

First, they didn't need the internal drive, then something changed after an NR and I had to put an internal drive back in a couple of my HRs to get them to work.  I have no idea what or why anything changed, but it sure did.

 

Rich






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