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Cannae Drive for Satellites


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#1 OFFLINE   Drucifer

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 07:39 PM

NASA Says Puzzling New Space Drive Can Generate Thrust Without Propellant
 

gizmag.png by DARIO BORGHINO


A NASA study has recently concluded that the "Cannae Drive," a disruptive new method of space propulsion, can produce small amounts of thrust without the use of propellant, in apparent discordance with Newton's third law. According to its inventor, the device can harness microwave radiation inside a resonator, turning electricity into a net thrust. If further verified and perfected, the advance could revolutionize the space industry, dramatically cutting costs for both missions in deep space and satellites in Earth orbit.

The basic principle behind space propulsion is very simple: for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Use a rocket engine to throw mass one way, get propelled the other way. And according to the law of conservation of momentum, the more mass you throw behind you and the faster you throw it, the stronger your forward thrust will be.

One consequence for space travel is that, to counter Earth's gravity and reach orbital velocity, rockets need to carry a very large amount of propellant: For instance, in the now-retired Space Shuttle, the mass of the fuel was almost twenty times greater than the payload itself. In satellites the impact is smaller, but still very significant: for geostationary satellites, fuel can make up as much as half the launch weight, and that makes them more expensive to launch and operate.

But now, a NASA study has concluded that a new type of spacecraft propulsion is able to generate thrust without propellant. This appears to violate the law of conservation of momentum: in other words, if no mass (fuel or otherwise) is being ejected from the system, where is the thrust coming from? Where is the equal and opposite reaction?

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#2 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 10:01 PM

Interesting. It sure would change space if that is right.

#3 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 10:00 AM

Interesting. It sure would change space if that is right.

 

That is interesting.  I wonder if it would have any earthbound applications.

 

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#4 OFFLINE   boukengreen

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 10:09 AM

Closer to a warp drive maybe
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#5 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 10:25 AM

Closer to a warp drive maybe

 

It does make one think about exciting possibilities. Right now it's as if it were the early 1700's and we are reading about the invention of the Newcomen atmospheric engine (aka steam engine) but now have to wait 60 years for a James Watt to come along and make it practical in revolutionary ways.


Edited by phrelin, 05 August 2014 - 10:26 AM.

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#6 OFFLINE   boukengreen

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 10:52 AM

It does make one think about exciting possibilities. Right now it's as if it were the early 1700's and we are reading about the invention of the Newcomen atmospheric engine (aka steam engine) but now have to wait 60 years for a James Watt to come along and make it practical in revolutionary ways.

lol yep is there a Zefram Cochrane born yet that we don't know about yet lol
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#7 OFFLINE   longrider

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 10:58 AM

It does make one think about exciting possibilities. Right now it's as if it were the early 1700's and we are reading about the invention of the Newcomen atmospheric engine (aka steam engine) but now have to wait 60 years for a James Watt to come along and make it practical in revolutionary ways.

That time frame sounds about right considering that Zefram Cochrane will invent the warp drive in 2063...

 

Seriously, this just reinforces my belief that you can never say something is impossible, just impossible with our current understanding of science and technology

 

Edit:  Boukengreen beat me to it :)


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#8 OFFLINE   boukengreen

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 11:17 AM

That time frame sounds about right considering that Zefram Cochrane will invent the warp drive in 2063...

Seriously, this just reinforces my belief that you can never say something is impossible, just impossible with our current understanding of science and technology

Edit: Boukengreen beat me to it :)

yep we're on the same mind frame lol
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#9 OFFLINE   yosoyellobo

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 11:28 AM

Hopefully it will not take as long as it took to harness the power of Fusion. Oops...

#10 ONLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 01:10 PM

Hopefully it will not take as long as it took to harness the power of Fusion. Oops...

Particularly COLD fusion!



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#11 OFFLINE   yosoyellobo

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 01:30 PM

Particularly COLD fusion!


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#12 OFFLINE   Drucifer

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 08:18 PM

That is interesting.  I wonder if it would have any earthbound applications.

 

Rich

 

Think our gravity would make any movement extremely small compared to weightlessness of space.


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#13 OFFLINE   boukengreen

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 09:37 PM

Think our gravity would make any movement extremely small compared to weightlessness of space.

I think it would take a lot to change our normal gravity even a little bit
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#14 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 09:45 AM

If you think outside the box, you'll find that we've defeated gravity in many ways.  Airplanes are an example.

 

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#15 OFFLINE   boukengreen

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 11:09 AM

If you think outside the box, you'll find that we've defeated gravity in many ways. Airplanes are an example.

Rich

I was excluding external factors like roller coasters, planes, car wrecks. Et all
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#16 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 11:20 AM

I was excluding external factors like roller coasters, planes, car wrecks. Et all

 

Hovercraft fit into that category too, as do the space shuttles and rocket ships.  We just don't think of them as "anti-gravity" devices.  

 

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#17 OFFLINE   Delroy E Walleye

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 02:08 AM

I would assume the microwave energy has to come from somewhere, (either beamed to the spacecraft, solar or nuclear-generated).  I don't know much about physical astro-dynamics, but the concept of energy exchange shouldn't be too hard to grasp.  Only when limited to thinking of having to eject some sort of mass (conventional, or even ion drive propulsion) does this seem totally mysterious.

 

However, it certainly doesn't sound like the type of propulsion that's going to get a spacecraft from the ground up into orbit all by itself! Seems to me it would most likely be used to maneuver spacecraft already in orbit (such as our beloved broadcast satellites).



#18 OFFLINE   yosoyellobo

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 08:27 AM

I would assume the microwave energy has to come from somewhere, (either beamed to the spacecraft, solar or nuclear-generated).  I don't know much about physical astro-dynamics, but the concept of energy exchange shouldn't be too hard to grasp.  Only when limited to thinking of having to eject some sort of mass (conventional, or even ion drive propulsion) does this seem totally mysterious.
 
However, it certainly doesn't sound like the type of propulsion that's going to get a spacecraft from the ground up into orbit all by itself! Seems to me it would most likely be used to maneuver spacecraft already in orbit (such as our beloved broadcast satellites).


Once in space it could be use to travel to other planets or even other stars. If I remmenber correctly to get to Mars you would accelerate for half the distance turn the craft around and decelerate the rest of the way. Please feel free to correct any or all of this as I am going from memory from something I migth have study forty or fifty years ago. :)




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