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Second Dish Issue Surfaces in SHVIA Bill


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#1 OFFLINE   Chris Blount

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 06:40 AM

House lawmakers took the wraps off legislation aimed at reauthorizing the Satellite Home Viewer Improvement Act (SHVIA), which includes a proposed mandate requiring satellite TV companies to deliver local TV to consumers via a single dish.

The legislation, introduced in the House Telecommunications and the Internet Subcommittee during a hearing Thursday, took aim at EchoStar's DISH Network and its offering of a number of local TV channels via a second dish for a select set of markets. The bill would give satellite TV companies deadlines to place local TV channels delivered to consumers on a single dish, but it doesn't prevent the companies from delivering other types of programming via a second dish.

Several lawmakers offered support for the single-dish/locals item, including Rep. Charles Gonzalez (D-Texas). Gonzales said a number of stations in his home state are put on a second dish, including Spanish-language channels and programming aimed at Hispanic audiences.

Representatives of the broadcast community testifying before the subcommittee also voiced support for the proposed mandate.

David Moskowitz, senior vice president and general counsel at EchoStar, defended the use of a second dish for delivery of locals, saying the practice puts scarce spectrum to maximum use and allows the company to deliver local TV to a large number of markets. He also emphasized to the panel that the second dish and installation are free to consumers, and channels received on a second dish are delivered completely transparent to the viewer.

Draft House legislation for the satellite TV law renewal also includes a mandate to modify and improve the testing and waiver process for determining availability of off-air local TV channels, used to figure out eligibility for distant network signals. The draft also provides an extension of the statutory license allowing satellite TV to deliver distant network programming, though those testifying for the satellite TV business and lawmakers suggested that satellite TV should be given a permanent license for the service.

http://www.skyreport.com (Used with permission)

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#2 OFFLINE   Cyclone

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 10:27 AM

Do those Dumb asses know that you can't fit all of the locals on Dish500. I guess they'll revist this again next year when they are complaining that the SuperDish is too large.

Maybe Charlie can get them to give him 32 DBS TPs at 105.5 or 115
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#3 OFFLINE   Curtis0620

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 10:39 AM

Funny that D* can do it with less TPs than E*.

#4 OFFLINE   TonyM

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 10:45 AM

Well, you know they had to play the ethnic card

Several lawmakers offered support for the single-dish/locals item, including Rep. Charles Gonzalez (D-Texas). Gonzales said a number of stations in his home state are put on a second dish, including Spanish-language channels and programming aimed at Hispanic audiences


There are other stations on the wings, not just spanish channels.

Also, Direct is going to do a 2 dish solution for locals. Why arent they in here?

They may have opened up a can of worms on this

The bill would give satellite TV companies deadlines to place local TV channels delivered to consumers on a single dish, but it doesn't prevent the companies from delivering other types of programming via a second dish.


ok...then do the following:
-move all int'l off wings and onto 121
-put locals on the wings (61.5 for eastern cities and 148 for western cities)

There...problem solved. If you read above, all they are mad about is one dish for locals, use the Dish500 for all programming, and a wing for new locals.

Also, people whine now about compression, what the hell would they say when they try to squeeze more channels on a TP so some people don't need 2 dishes on their roof?

#5 OFFLINE   Curtis0620

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 10:51 AM

No, you don't understand the 2 dish issue. It's that they are spitting locals in a single market between dishes (e.g. some of NY locals are on 61.5). They can put a full market on a second dish.

#6 OFFLINE   rvd420

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 11:02 AM

I would allow a 2 dish solution, but I would make some changes.

#1. If a 2nd dish is needed for locals it would HAVE to be installed at the time of initial installation (for new installs)

#2. For current customers who have locals but need a 2nd dish, the Dish would have to be installed within 30 days. (not the call and ask like you have to now) Make it automatic.

I don't see a problem needing 2 dishes to get all of your channels (packages an locals) but the call and ask, then wait forever B.S. has to stop.

#7 OFFLINE   Geronimo

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 11:11 AM

Put whole markets on the wing sats and be done with it. Or allow DISH and DTV to share locals at 110 and 119. Heck we might even have room for HD then
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#8 OFFLINE   djlong

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 11:14 AM

Gee, locally, WENH and WNDS (PBS and independant) stations are on the 'wing' satellite for Boston. Gosh, those racist pigs at E*!

#9 OFFLINE   scooper

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 12:18 PM

I suppose if I had to get a 61.5 Dish to get ALL my locals, I would. But right now, I get all of them on a 119 spotbeam, so a Dish500 is sufficient for me.
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#10 OFFLINE   TonyM

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 12:52 PM

No, you don't understand the 2 dish issue. It's that they are spitting locals in a single market between dishes (e.g. some of NY locals are on 61.5). They can put a full market on a second dish.


If you were directing this at me, I already know that

When I lived in Mpls, we had our 2nd PBS (KTCI) on 61.5 ..Got the 2nd dish installed free and about 2 weeks later, they moved it to 110.

#11 OFFLINE   TonyM

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 12:53 PM

Funny that D* can do it with less TPs than E*.


D* has different Spotbeam technology than E*
They can get more on a TP

#12 OFFLINE   FTA Michael

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 02:03 PM

Thing is, there are a lot of E* subs who could get a few extra locals on a second dish, but they can't find a place to put it. The second dish requires a whole different line of sight, and that's bound to be a problem in some installations, especially apartments.

And my guess is that there are even more people who watch the second-dish locals so infrequently that they don't want to be bothered with it at all. IMHO, it's this group that has the NAB-funded Congress in a tither.
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#13 Guest_Earl Zuberbelt_*

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 02:24 PM

House lawmakers took the wraps off legislation aimed at reauthorizing the Satellite Home Viewer Improvement Act (SHVIA), which includes a proposed mandate requiring satellite TV companies to deliver local TV to consumers via a single dish.

The legislation, introduced in the House Telecommunications and the Internet Subcommittee during a hearing Thursday, took aim at EchoStar's DISH Network and its offering of a number of local TV channels via a second dish for a select set of markets. The bill would give satellite TV companies deadlines to place local TV channels delivered to consumers on a single dish, but it doesn't prevent the companies from delivering other types of programming via a second dish.

Several lawmakers offered support for the single-dish/locals item, including Rep. Charles Gonzalez (D-Texas). Gonzales said a number of stations in his home state are put on a second dish, including Spanish-language channels and programming aimed at Hispanic audiences.

Representatives of the broadcast community testifying before the subcommittee also voiced support for the proposed mandate.

David Moskowitz, senior vice president and general counsel at EchoStar, defended the use of a second dish for delivery of locals, saying the practice puts scarce spectrum to maximum use and allows the company to deliver local TV to a large number of markets. He also emphasized to the panel that the second dish and installation are free to consumers, and channels received on a second dish are delivered completely transparent to the viewer.

Draft House legislation for the satellite TV law renewal also includes a mandate to modify and improve the testing and waiver process for determining availability of off-air local TV channels, used to figure out eligibility for distant network signals. The draft also provides an extension of the statutory license allowing satellite TV to deliver distant network programming, though those testifying for the satellite TV business and lawmakers suggested that satellite TV should be given a permanent license for the service.

http://www.skyreport.com (Used with permission)


Not surprised that some of these political boobs are trying to make something so simple into something so complicated.

Of course when you look at the tax code one shouldn't be surprised.

We use a second Dish for some local stations, DISH came out and installed free with no charge for DISH. We live in a highly restrictive convenent community, no complaints from anyone.

With all the problems in the world, these morons are wasting our time and money about a second Dish.

Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid.

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#14 OFFLINE   pjmrt

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 02:27 PM

Maybe I'm a little dense, but what's the uproar about a second dish? For those local networks, Echostar comes out and provides and installs the extra dish free. Is this really some great problem that really needs our government's attention???? Maybe I can get a house bill to address the stale potato chips carried by some stores.

#15 OFFLINE   ypsiguy

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 02:49 PM

Put whole markets on the wing sats and be done with it. Or allow DISH and DTV to share locals at 110 and 119. Heck we might even have room for HD then

This is really the solution, the present practice of Dish and D* duplicating locals is moronic. Charlie also mentioned that if Congress did away with the stupid retransmission agreements on locals, he would provide them for free. Hopefully Congress will let this happen. Only one problem on sharing though, Dish is Nagravision and D* is another system. If both are DVB, then run them FTA!!!
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#16 OFFLINE   Tyralak

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 03:50 PM

House lawmakers took the wraps off legislation aimed at reauthorizing the Satellite Home Viewer Improvement Act (SHVIA), which includes a proposed mandate requiring satellite TV companies to deliver local TV to consumers via a single dish.


These nimrods must think E* is staffed by magicians. Somehow they can bend the laws of physics regarding how much data can be squeezed onto a carrier wave. :rolleyes:

This is just going to make things worse. Heavier compression, maybe some dropped channels. This is bad news.
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#17 OFFLINE   Tyralak

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 03:54 PM

Well, you know they had to play the ethnic card


Of course they did. It's the sleazy political thing to do.

ok...then do the following:
-move all int'l off wings and onto 121
-put locals on the wings (61.5 for eastern cities and 148 for western cities)

There...problem solved. If you read above, all they are mad about is one dish for locals, use the Dish500 for all programming, and a wing for new locals.


That's what I've been saying all along. Move all the locals off the main birds, send them to 61.5 or 148. Easy.
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#18 OFFLINE   ericha

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 04:27 PM

One small problem with moving all the locals to the wing birds--there are no spot beam antennas there. You can't just move the main birds, that would interrupt programming. I also suspect that the "look angle" to the continental US would make a spot beam antenna design very difficult.

#19 OFFLINE   Chris Freeland

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 05:35 PM

If the government give's E* the time needed to launch E10 to 110 in 05, and if E* adds a 3rd up-link center, they should not have any problem moving all wing locals to spotbeams. I suspect E* will be forced to do this because what the broadcasters want, the broadcasters generally get, they are that powerful. :(

#20 OFFLINE   Mike D-CO5

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 06:16 PM

The only reason why Dish chose this 2 dish situation that split the main networks from the religious and Mexican stations was out of spite for the FCC and the Must Carry Rules. Charlie only wanted to carry the big 4 networks in each city and use the super stations pack for the rest. This would allow Dish to make extra money off each locals pack with bundled prices of 8.99 for the locals and superstations ( WB and UPN). The must carry rules where if you carry one station in a town you must carry all stations in the town if the other stations request it. This irked old Charlie so he decided to make it nearly impossible to get the other channels by splitting them off and putting them on the side sats. I don't think there is anything wrong with using the 2 dish solution but they should keep all the channels in a locals pack together on one satellite dish. The FCC has not been happy with Charlie since he started this convoluted 2 dish situation but they have looked the other way since Dish will install at the customer's request, a free dish for the few channels on the side sats. IN this way Charlie was getting to add just the big networks and he kept the other must carry channels on the lesser viewed side satellites. I just don't want the picture quality of my locals to suffer in order to make the FCC happy. I agree they should wait till Dish gets a few more sats up and a new uplink center and then they should give Dish a deadline to get all the locals in a pack on the same satellite dish.




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