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Welcome to the SHVIRA forum!


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40 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 19 January 2005 - 08:19 PM

They control all HBO channels, and can distribute their programming as they see fit. Not so with the networks.

The networks CAN distribute their programs as they see fit. They have seen fit to distribute them with a first run exclusive offer to their affiliates. For example, If NBC/Universal decided that The West Wing would better be distributed first run on Bravo or even simulcast they could do that. Their affiliates probably would not like it, and there may be some network affiliate contract language barring such behavior. But there is no law that says network programming MUST air on the network affiliate first and have market exclutivity. That's the network's choice.

JL

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#22 OFFLINE   GW_HD

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Posted 03 February 2005 - 11:09 PM

I agree with Marcus S, many distants beyond the 70 mile transmission rule have now been lumped into their closest DMA because of spot and no longer qualify for DNS even though their previous qual resulted in no local net OTA. I agree that qual'd subs under the old SHVIA rules should qual for a choice of closest DMA with local HD "or" DSN including HD nets.

Unfortunately, DBS providers have anchored themselves within constraints to protect themselves from fines and are viewing this bill as conservatively as possible. The 70 mile rule does exist under the new SHVERA, but is not being interpreted properly by DBS providers.

Interesting, that most rurals would prefer a choice of E/W DSN over their closet 70+ DMA. But, farmers, ranchers, and mountain folk do live in a time shift different from Suburbia. First and mostly rural early adopters of DBS, switched from C-Band, now forced into a DMA, obviously feel betrayed by the FCC.

I do agree that if I qualified for two net time zones w/HD, could not receive OTA from the closest affiliates, I too would choose DSN w/HD over "locals". Unfortunately, there is no wording in this bill to say who does or does not qual for HD networks except for blanket O&O HD waivers, but then this bill implies, a contradiction in that the waiver system in general no longer exists.

I am puzzled why the subject of this post is labeled SHVIRA and agree that while Congress publicized that SHVERA
brought clarity, it has succesfully introduced scare tactics which have translated into a mess. Inversely, and what this bill clarifies, is that rurals are not eligible for any HD nets.

Under SHVERA;

1) You live 70+ miles outside your DMA, you have been switched by your DBS provider to your closest DMA or have requested the closest DMA. You now qualify for either O&O E or W HD DSN.

2) You cannot receive OTA net channels and request to receive only DSN and drop your 70+ mile away "locals". No HD nets for you.

3) You where previously DSN grandfathered, sub'd to one or more DSN's and retain your HD mirrors including local net O&O.

4) You live within an O&O and qual to receive either E or W HD DSN.

5) A little known rider on this bill, if you can receive at least one local net via OTA including a net repeater that is beyond the 70+ mile rule, you are now lumped into the closest local DMA for all nets and above restrictions apply.

"There is nothing wrong with your television set. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling transmission. If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume. If we wish to make it softer, we will tune it to a whisper. We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical. We can roll the image, make it flutter. We can change the focus to a soft blur or sharpen it to crystal clarity. For the next hour sit quietly and we will control all that you see and hear. We repeat: there is nothing wrong with your television set. You are about to participate in a great adventure. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the inner mind..."

This is not an opinion, but it cannot be ignored that cable and the nets now feel threatened in many ways.

#23 OFFLINE   Greg Bimson

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 10:30 AM

Forgive me if this seems jumbled, but I am having a hard time deciphering the last post. All quotes attributed to GW_HD;

Unfortunately, DBS providers have anchored themselves within constraints to protect themselves from fines and are viewing this bill as conservatively as possible. The 70 mile rule does exist under the new SHVERA, but is not being interpreted properly by DBS providers.

There was never a 70 mile rule. And I am fairly certain the DBS companies are interpreting the SHVERA correctly.

Under SHVERA;

1) You live 70+ miles outside your DMA, you have been switched by your DBS provider to your closest DMA or have requested the closest DMA. You now qualify for either O&O E or W HD DSN.

You cannot live 70+ miles outside your DMA. Unless you live in Alaska, every single area in the United States is assigned to a Designated Market Area (DMA). If the local channels from your DMA are available and you do not have Distant Network Service (DNS), then you can no longer receive DNS. You could live 70+ miles from the towers, but you are not 70+ miles outside your DMA.

2) You cannot receive OTA net channels and request to receive only DSN and drop your 70+ mile away "locals". No HD nets for you.

Not necessarily. If you have DNS service, and you do not want your local channels, you will continue to receive your DNS service. If you also have HD DNS service, you get to keep it.

5) A little known rider on this bill, if you can receive at least one local net via OTA including a net repeater that is beyond the 70+ mile rule, you are now lumped into the closest local DMA for all nets and above restrictions apply.

There is no 70+ mile rule. If you live in a DMA where local channels are available on DBS, and do not have Distant Network Service, you will not be able to receive Distant Network Service. This has nothing to do with OTA reception; this only has to do with reception of local channels via DBS.

#24 OFFLINE   Marcus S

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 12:36 AM

Since your so in the know you need the absorb the following links;
http://www.directv.c...els_options.dsp
http://www.directv.c...dns_shvera.html

Then to support your argument, please produce a Text, Word, or PDF document of the SHVERA "entire" bill. You want find it, because while it has been implemented, it is not yet available to the public. Why?

Because revisions are still in progress to define who can or cannot qual to receive local HD "or" DNS HD nets if a rural opts out of their new found local DMA who also cannot receive OTA reception. The only scrambled words I read are yours. So please copy/paste portions of the actual bill to support your foundation.

The true argument is if SHVERA is an addendum to SHVA / SHVIRA or if SHVERA modifies to clarify existing law. Public view, after damage, is due sometime in April.

Regardless, DBS providers are acting conservatily because they expect the worst.

#25 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 12:57 AM

Since your so in the know you need the absorb the following links;
http://www.directv.c...els_options.dsp
http://www.directv.c...dns_shvera.html

DirecTV's stupidity does not make a law. (Although there should be a law against that level of stupidity.)

IF YOU WANT TO PROVE THERE IS A 70 MILE RULE SHOW US IN THE LAW.

There is a footnote on that first page that is more clear:

An "unserved household" is defined as one that receives less than a Grade B signal from local TV stations. SHVIA requires that we use the Individual Location Longley-Rice ("ILLR") model to determine whether a customer resides in an unserved household.


I believe DirecTV has mis-interpreted the law on the second page for people who had both distants and locals on the appropriate date. But there is nothing in the law that says they cannot cut off your locals or distants at their own option.

The true argument is if SHVERA is an addendum to SHVA / SHVIRA or if SHVERA modifies to clarify existing law. Public view, after damage, is due someome in April.

SHVERA modified and extended existing laws. All past tense since SHVERA was enacted two months ago.

The FCC regulations are under discussion, but they are clearly in public view - downloadable from the FCC and being discussed on this very forum. Even you can read comment to the FCC on their interpretations. Welcome to America!

JL

#26 OFFLINE   Marcus S

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 01:02 AM

I believe my earlier post stated that DBS provider "are" interpreting this bill inaccurately and agree that law, interpretation, and DBS policy has now headed south.

#27 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 01:03 AM

As of 1:59am

Since your so in the know you need the absorb the following links;
http://www.directv.c...els_options.dsp
http://www.directv.c...dns_shvera.html

Then to support your argument, please produce a Text, Word, or PDF document of the SHVERA "entire" bill. You want find it, because while it has been implemented, it is not yet available to the public. Why?

Because revisions are still in progress to define who can or cannot qual to receive local HD "or" DNS HD nets if a rural opts out of their new found local DMA who also cannot receive OTA reception. The only scrambled words I read are yours. So please copy/paste portions of the actual bill to support your foundation.

The true argument is if SHVERA is an addendum to SHVA / SHVIRA or if SHVERA modifies to clarify existing law. Public view, after damage, is due sometime in April.

Regardless, DBS providers are acting conservatily because they expect the worst.

Just marking this down, in case there are further revisions.

JL

#28 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 01:06 AM

I believe my earlier post stated that DBS provider "are" interpreting this bill inaccurately and agree that law, interpretation, and DBS policy has now headed south.

The law is doing fine. The official interpretation is underway in the NPRM. This is not the end of DBS.

JL

#29 OFFLINE   Marcus S

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 01:12 AM

This is not the end of DBS, but how they are interpreting SHVERA. So far, D* sent letters out today to allow you to choose new found locals versus DNS and cannot guaranty DNS HD if you opt out of "locals".

So far I have distant locals & DSN, and will opt out of distant locals if I can be assured I can get DSN HD.

The nets and cable have allot to loose here, and I will assure, my new found locals will loose.

#30 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 01:25 AM

This is not the end of DBS, but how they are interpreting SHVERA. So far, D* sent letters out today to allow you to choose new found locals versus DNS and cannot guaranty DNS HD if you opt out of "locals".

So far I have distant locals & DSN, and will opt out of distant locals if I can be assured I can get DSN HD.

The nets and cable have allot to loose here, and I will assure, my new found locals loose.

If you say so. But I choose to disagree.

JL

#31 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 01:58 AM

You have until April to disagree with your DBS provider. You have only have March to complain to the FCC.
Message deleted while I was replying.

Comment date: April 8, 2005
Reply Comment date: April 29, 2005

We have until April 8th to comment to the FCC, and until April 29th to reply to comments made to the FCC. Of course the rulemaking has to do with Significantly Viewed stations - close distants. So don't bother the FCC with your complaints about East Coast/West Coast distants.

You can disagree with your DBS provider until you are blue in the face. It is their option, and perfectly legal, not to offer you distants or locals - either or both.

JL

#32 OFFLINE   Marcus S

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 01:59 AM

Please produce the actual bill in it's entirety. Do not make assumptions or produce snipits of what the bill was intended to accomplish. Last consumer posts must be received by Mar 11, Corporate appeals will be "considered" through April 8th.

#33 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 02:06 AM

2:59am

Please produce the actual bill in it's entirety. Do not make assumptions and produce snipits of what the bill was intended to accomplish.

See THIS POST for one of the many links posted to the SHVIRA forum.

3:06am

Please produce the actual bill in it's entirety. Do not make assumptions or produce snipits of what the bill was intended to accomplish. Last consumer posts must be received by Mar 11, Corporate appeals will be "considered" through April 8th.

Prove that. What paragraph?

JL

#34 OFFLINE   Marcus S

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 02:10 AM

Obviously you are smoking something, your late night post / link is garbled and smokes out pork barrels under the Reagan Admin? And yes, please post the SHVERA bill for us all to read.

#35 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 02:16 AM

3:10am

Obviously you are smoking something, your late night post is garbled and smokes out pork barrels under the Reagan Admin?

Oh, you have done better than that. Your 2:12am post was barely in English. The 3:10am one here would kill an English teacher.

Have you found proof of the 70 mile rule yet, or have you turned to insults only mode now?

There is no March 11th cutoff for consumer comments.

3:16am

Obviously you are smoking something, your late night post / link is garbled and smokes out pork barrels under the Reagan Admin? And yes, please post the SHVERA bill for us all to read.

I just did in the last post. :rolleyes:

JL

#36 OFFLINE   Marcus S

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 02:22 AM

You are not making any sense nor have you provided proof to counter anything I have said this morning. When someone has to turn fact into their FAQ w/out substance and is now insulted, you are now gone from radar.

#37 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 02:24 AM

3:22am

You are not making any sense nor have you provided proof to counter anything I have said this morning and when someone has to turn fact into their FAQ w/out substance and is now insulted, you are gone from radar.

Goodnight. Hope the English teachers reading recover soon. :D

JL

#38 OFFLINE   Marcus S

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 12:56 AM

And as usual you BS you way through your fact without providing any actual. Post FCC and Congress links. Excuse me, the topic is not English Grammar, it's Government / Congress effecting DNS. Obviously you are on the wrong forum or simply feel a need to deflect the topic due to your lack of knowledge on the subject.

#39 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 01:12 AM

Post FCC and Congress links.

Been there, done that. Please cease the personal attacks. Thanks.

JL

#40 OFFLINE   Marcus S

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Posted 12 February 2005 - 09:33 PM

Posted an old stale link about the Reagan admin, which has nothing to do with current DNS or SHVERA. Has yet to post any link to current DNS or SHVERA fact. When summoned to produce DNS or SHVERA fact, instead, deflected the question by attacking grammar. Now requesting martyr status.


It is a "public" attack, that you have contributed the square root / zero to this topic so far.

This link however, is interesting...
http://www.satellite...?t=47508&page=2

:backtotop




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