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Guest Message by DevFuse

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which tv to buy???


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16 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   anth75

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Posted 17 November 2004 - 05:33 PM

i'm buying a new hdtv this weekend and was hoping someeone can help me out. i want to spend around 1,600.i was looking at Sony 46 in. Projection TV/HDTV Monitor, Hi-Scan 1080i Display or JVC 56 in. HDTV Monitor/Projection TV with Progressive Scan, Widescreen.if anyone could give me some feed back i would apreciate it.thanks

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#2 OFFLINE   deraz

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Posted 17 November 2004 - 06:27 PM

My two cents: also take a look at the Toshiba and Mitsubishi sets. They have some great buys in that price range....

#3 OFFLINE   Ric

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Posted 17 November 2004 - 06:53 PM

I got the Hitachi 51F510 a few weeks ago and love it. Great picture all the way around - especially when expanding standard Definition to widescreen. It goes for about $1500 to $1600.

#4 OFFLINE   mini1

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 12:50 PM

What ever you get, make sure it has DVI or HDMI WITH HDCP, otherwise it will be obsolete in no time. I would recomend the Sony, Hitachi and Mitsubishi RPTV lines. Don't go for some low end peice of crap just to save a few bucks. Its worth the extra money to get a better all around HDTV. Visit the AVS forum for all your HDTV needs, there is a high traffic area just for RPTV on that forum and lots od reviews to read.

#5 OFFLINE   obrienaj

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 11:32 AM

What ever you get, make sure it has DVI or HDMI WITH HDCP, otherwise it will be obsolete in no time. I would recomend the Sony, Hitachi and Mitsubishi RPTV lines. Don't go for some low end peice of crap just to save a few bucks. Its worth the extra money to get a better all around HDTV. Visit the AVS forum for all your HDTV needs, there is a high traffic area just for RPTV on that forum and lots od reviews to read.


I'm a rookie at this and probably a year away from an HDTV TV purchase, just beginning to tackle the learning curve. Can you explain what DVI and HDMI/HDCP is and why TVs without this capability will be obsolete ?
Andy.

#6 OFFLINE   mini1

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 03:24 PM

yup, Its a new copy protection method. In the future only sets with this input will be able to accept an HD signal. The upcoming HD DVD/BLU-RAY players will be amoung the first to fully implement this, in fact they won't even have component video out. Only DVI/HDMI HDCP rated sets will be able to work with these. Also in the future, the HD providers will start to copy protect (flag) HD programs, when this appears on a program everyone using component will be down-rezzed to SDTV (480p), anyone using an HDCP connection will be able to see the full 720p/1080i/1080p HDTV picture. This is the basic understanding on what the future holds for component and DVI/HDMI.

#7 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 06:26 PM

I second the motion for Toshiba. Both of my TVs are Toshiba... My non-HD one is a 32" that I've had for longer than I can remember (10 years or so I believe)... My HD one is their 65" model from a couple of years back.

I'm a little concerned over the DVI vs Component discussions I've heard since my TV just slightly predates having that connector as standard (it existed then, but wasn't a gimme item)... but I can't believe there wouldn't be some viable workaround.

Anyway, look at Toshiba... mine have proven to be durable over the long haul.

#8 OFFLINE   mini1

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 06:31 PM

Again, there is no work around for non-HDCP supported sets. My best advice is to get rid of outdated HDTV's with no HDCP input before them become EDTV's, and obsolete.

#9 OFFLINE   digital223

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 10:20 PM

What ever you get, make sure it has DVI or HDMI WITH HDCP, otherwise it will be obsolete in no time. I would recomend the Sony, Hitachi and Mitsubishi RPTV lines. Don't go for some low end peice of crap just to save a few bucks. Its worth the extra money to get a better all around HDTV. Visit the AVS forum for all your HDTV needs, there is a high traffic area just for RPTV on that forum and lots od reviews to read.


I notice most of your posts include " make sure it has DVI or HDMI with HDCP".
I thought HDCP is only being considered for adoption when HDTV is finally ready to go full steam! There are othe formats besides HDCP.
Can you elaborate on your findings. Personally I don't think HDCP will be adopted, I certainaly hope not. From what I have found out it will prevent anyone from recording any programming to a dvr. But I do not think it will prevent anyone from viewing HDTV. Please correct me if I am wrong.

#10 OFFLINE   ibglowin

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 08:25 AM

This is utter nonsense.

There are more HDTV's in homes today with nothing but component inputs on the back for HDTV than DVI, or HDMI sets combined. Down rezzing component HD is nothing more than an urban legend. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. There is NO recorder of any type on the market that has a component input on it that accepts anything more than a 480i signal anyway.

HDTV tuners out there today don't even have anything that would detect a broadcast flag anyway so they would just ignore it and pass the signal through anyway unchanged.

Bottom line, buy the set with the best PQ. If it has HDMI input great but don't lose sleep over it if it doesn't.


yup, Its a new copy protection method. In the future only sets with this input will be able to accept an HD signal. The upcoming HD DVD/BLU-RAY players will be amoung the first to fully implement this, in fact they won't even have component video out. Only DVI/HDMI HDCP rated sets will be able to work with these. Also in the future, the HD providers will start to copy protect (flag) HD programs, when this appears on a program everyone using component will be down-rezzed to SDTV (480p), anyone using an HDCP connection will be able to see the full 720p/1080i/1080p HDTV picture. This is the basic understanding on what the future holds for component and DVI/HDMI.


Mike

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#11 OFFLINE   mini1

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 12:45 PM

I notice most of your posts include " make sure it has DVI or HDMI with HDCP".
I thought HDCP is only being considered for adoption when HDTV is finally ready to go full steam! There are othe formats besides HDCP.
Can you elaborate on your findings. Personally I don't think HDCP will be adopted, I certainaly hope not. From what I have found out it will prevent anyone from recording any programming to a dvr. But I do not think it will prevent anyone from viewing HDTV. Please correct me if I am wrong.

HDCP ALREADY exists, its in use on almost ever single HD cable box on the market, and its heading into the satellite industry. If your DVI port doesn't accept HDCP you can't use it, plain and simple. The down-rezzing hasn't started yet, but we know for sure it is coming.

#12 OFFLINE   mini1

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 12:49 PM

This is utter nonsense.

There are more HDTV's in homes today with nothing but component inputs on the back for HDTV than DVI, or HDMI sets combined. Down rezzing component HD is nothing more than an urban legend. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. There is NO recorder of any type on the market that has a component input on it that accepts anything more than a 480i signal anyway.

HDTV tuners out there today don't even have anything that would detect a broadcast flag anyway so they would just ignore it and pass the signal through anyway unchanged.

Bottom line, buy the set with the best PQ. If it has HDMI input great but don't lose sleep over it if it doesn't.

Its the truth, I know you don't like it but that is what is going to happen. We already see in the HD DVD/Blu-Ray players which will NOT even feature component outputs. Use DVI or HDMI HDCP or you don't watch HD DVD's in HD. Plain and simple. It will happen, and if you have a non-HDCP enabled set its time to sell it, before it become totally obsolete. Its better to be safe then sorry, here it just makes no sense to not be ready. Most people who have component only sets won't care, because 85% of them don't even know what HD is. They think analog cable is HD.

#13 OFFLINE   ibglowin

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 01:56 PM

You know what the sky is falling also, look out the window , I swear it is, really, no really it is.

You are 100% wrong here. They will never mess with analog. (i.e component HD) Hollywood doesn't care about analog, only digital because of the fear of perfect copies. That said there are plenty of HD sets and receivers out there that will never know or care about a broadcast flag. The FCC has already stated that No OTA HD can carry ANY broadcast flag. The only thing that may carry a broadcast flag in the future is HD PPV and first run stuff on HBO etc.

Really, the sky is falling.....

Its the truth, I know you don't like it but that is what is going to happen. We already see in the HD DVD/Blu-Ray players which will NOT even feature component outputs. Use DVI or HDMI HDCP or you don't watch HD DVD's in HD. Plain and simple. It will happen, and if you have a non-HDCP enabled set its time to sell it, before it become totally obsolete. Its better to be safe then sorry, here it just makes no sense to not be ready. Most people who have component only sets won't care, because 85% of them don't even know what HD is. They think analog cable is HD.


Mike

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#14 OFFLINE   mini1

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 04:40 PM

Then why would the FCC require that all HD STB (for OTA too) made after July of this year to SUPPORT the broadcast flag, if it is going to go how you say?
I find this rather interesting, taken from the FCC's website:
"The essence of the FCC's rule is in 47 CFR 73.9002(B) and the following sections: "No party shall sell or distribute in interstate commerce a Covered Demodulator Product that does not comply with the Demodulator Compliance Requirements and Demodulator Robustness Requirements."

The Demodulator Compliance Requirements insist that all HDTV demodulators must listen for the flag (or assume it to be present in all signals). Flagged content must be output only to "protected outputs" or in degraded form: through analog outputs or digital outputs with visual resolution of 720x480 pixels or less--less than 1/4 of HDTV's capability. Flagged content may be recorded only by "Authorized" methods, which may include tethering of recordings to a single device.
The Demodulator Robustness Requirements are particularly troubling for open-source developers. In order to prevent users from gaining access to the full digital signal, the FCC ties the hands of even sophisticated users and developers. Devices must be "robust" against user access or modifications that permit access to the full digital stream. Since open-source drivers are by design user-modifiable, a PC tuner card with open-source drivers would not be "robust." It's not even clear that binary-only drivers would qualify.

Together, these rules mean that future PVR developers will have to get permission from the FCC and/or Hollywood before building high-definition versions of the TiVo. The products that they do build will be epoxied against user experimentation and future improvement. The rules mean that open-source developers and hobbyists will be shut out of the HDTV loop altogether.

Read some more about it: http://www.cdt.org/c...roduction.shtml
http://www.cdt.org/c.../broadcastflag/

Is the sky really falling??? It must be in the world of non-HDCP supported HDTV's, because being obsolete is closer then you think. :)

#15 ONLINE   Nick

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 09:17 PM

Several posts in this thread assert that HDCP will render earlier HD connectivity protocols such as DVI and Component obsolete. The assertion is incorrect. Current HDTV sets will NOT be rendered obsolete by HDCP.

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#16 OFFLINE   pomeroy

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 01:26 PM

Its the truth, I know you don't like it but that is what is going to happen. We already see in the HD DVD/Blu-Ray players which will NOT even feature component outputs. Use DVI or HDMI HDCP or you don't watch HD DVD's in HD. Plain and simple. It will happen, and if you have a non-HDCP enabled set its time to sell it, before it become totally obsolete. Its better to be safe then sorry, here it just makes no sense to not be ready. Most people who have component only sets won't care, because 85% of them don't even know what HD is. They think analog cable is HD.


Great advice!! I will make sure my HD set will have HDCP before I buy it. You know its always the people that jump on board to early that end up getting burned and pissed off because they just wasted there money :sure:

About programs being Flaged it makes sence, I knew it was to good to be true, they will find one way or the other to screw everybody over with HD.

Curious as to how the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray Recorders will combat this?

By the way whats your take on the winning format? HD-DVD or Blu-Ray? :)

#17 OFFLINE   mini1

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 05:42 PM

Exactly. I think we will see both HD DVD and Blu Ray do well. Blue Ray should have a slight advantage, but its going to be like DVD+ and DVD- in the end.




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