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Distants question


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33 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Link

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Posted 02 January 2005 - 03:37 PM

If the new laws have changed and won't allow those with waivers or those who qualify to have distants in addition to local channels, what areas besides those that E* and Directv don't have locals in yet will be allowed to get them??

I know some addresses qualified for both locals and distants before, so will those customers get to keep them if they had both, but in the future no others will?

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#2 OFFLINE   ADent

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 03:06 PM

If the new laws have changed and won't allow those with waivers or those who qualify to have distants in addition to local channels, what areas besides those that E* and Directv don't have locals in yet will be allowed to get them??

I know some addresses qualified for both locals and distants before, so will those customers get to keep them if they had both, but in the future no others will?



I have not studied it, but reports say that no one can get OOM Networks if locals are available. If no locals are available and you don't get the networks OTA Grade B, then you can get OOM Networks.

A few people that have both (from 1999 or before?) can continue, but most will have to choose which to lose.

#3 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 03:46 PM

I know some addresses qualified for both locals and distants before, so will those customers get to keep them if they had both, but in the future no others will?

If a customer had both on January 1st they will be getting a letter asking them if they want to keep distants. If they fail to respond to the letter - bye bye distants!

Satellite providers DO NOT have to continue to offer distants, even in to customers that legally can get them. It is a permission not requirement.

JL

#4 OFFLINE   Link

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 03:54 PM

If a customer had both on January 1st they will be getting a letter asking them if they want to keep distants. If they fail to respond to the letter - bye bye distants!

Satellite providers DO NOT have to continue to offer distants, even in to customers that legally can get them. It is a permission not requirement.

JL


I guess that means no more west coast options for some people. Now if a subscriber was paying for 2 distant cities-New York and LA for instance--can they keep both cities or just one set of distants? Most Directv subs, have both.

#5 OFFLINE   waltinvt

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 04:30 PM

As the smoke clears on this new legislation is anyone else starting to feel like they've been had ?

I wish someone could explain to me something positive about the new law for those of us that really don't have any digital options.

#6 OFFLINE   pomeroy

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 05:36 PM

Fear not, Talking to the right Directv person can get you what you want. I have been a Directv customer from day 1 and have had the distant networks. Up untill they passed that law were you had to get a wavier, "I think the law about this is a joke if people want the get distant networks and pay for them they should be able to get them and sign a paper telling your local channels to get lost" Back to my story, I was able to get waviers from all of my local channels even though I could receive there channel with rabbit ears :lol: Pretty soon Directv had my locals available, I was really worried about losing my distant networks, So I decided which one I watched the most and and dropped the others because I figured they would not come down on me to bad for just having 1 distant network. Anyway Directv has had my locals for several years now and I still have my distant network channel I wanted to keep, a fews times when I called them to upgrade my package they were looking over my account and said we have locals available to you now do you want them? I said no, that was it plus being a Directv customer for 10 years helps alot. But the key is talking to the right Directv person, and believe it or not it was a female that helped me keep my distant network ;) you can tell in there voice whether or not to hang up :lol: Becareful though because one time I called and never gave my name or account number talking to them and they knew who I was :eek2:

#7 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 05:45 PM

Pomeroy, you didn't even have to drop your other DNS channels. I don't know why you did. I've had all the 380's for years and don't plan on touching them. I'm leaving well enough alone, including all 4 networks' HD feeds, both east and west. :)

#8 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 05:46 PM

If a customer had both on January 1st they will be getting a letter asking them if they want to keep distants. If they fail to respond to the letter - bye bye distants!

Satellite providers DO NOT have to continue to offer distants, even in to customers that legally can get them. It is a permission not requirement.

JL

Letter? Says who? DirecTV is supposed to be grandfathering those who had the DNS before January 1. Why would they waste time and money sending out millions of letters? :nono2:

You have such little faith.

#9 OFFLINE   pomeroy

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 06:02 PM

Pomeroy, you didn't even have to drop your other DNS channels. I don't know why you did. I've had all the 380's for years and don't plan on touching them. I'm leaving well enough alone, including all 4 networks' HD feeds, both east and west. :)


I guess I just freaked out over getting those letters in the mail from Directv saying there were going to take them away, Turns out those were computer generated and sent out to everybody :rolleyes: Beside I am lucky to have my KNBC Los Angeles I could not see not having it, I love that channel, I live on the east coast But am on west coast time :) I did not really watch the other distant networks as much. I don't know of many people that have locals available from Directv and can still get distant networks. Directv has been real good to me :sure:

#10 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 06:21 PM

Letter? Says who?

Says the Congress of the United States and the President when he signed it into law. I think that trumps. :D

JL

#11 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 10:50 PM

Except that the law never stipulated letters were to be sent out to customers. Nice try, justa, but no cigar for you.

#12 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 04 January 2005 - 12:49 AM

Except that the law never stipulated letters were to be sent out to customers. Nice try, justa, but no cigar for you.

47 USC 338 (h) as created by SHVERA
(h) ADDITIONAL NOTICES TO SUBSCRIBERS, NETWORKS, AND STATIONS CONCERNING SIGNAL CARRIAGE.—

(1) NOTICES TO AND ELECTIONS BY SUBSCRIBERS CONCERNING GRANDFATHERED SIGNALS.—
Any carrier that provides a distant signal of a network station to a subscriber pursuant section 339(a)(2)(A) shall

(A) within 60 days after the local signal of a network station of the same television network is available pursuant to section 338, or within 60 days after the date of enactment of the Satellite Home Viewer Extension and Reauthorization Act of 2004, whichever is later, send a notice to the subscriber

(i) offering to substitute the local network signal for the duplicating distant network signal; and
(ii) informing the subscriber that, if the subscriber fails to respond in 60 days, the subscriber will lose the distant network signal but will be permitted to subscribe to the local network signal; and

(B) if the subscriber

(i) elects to substitute such local network signal within such 60 days, switch such subscriber to such local network signal within 10 days after the end of such 60-day period; or
(ii) fails to respond within such 60 days, terminate the distant network signal within 10 days after the end of such 60-day period.



Perhaps now would be a good time to apologize, Lord Vader? :D

JL

#13 OFFLINE   Bobby94928

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Posted 04 January 2005 - 09:40 AM

Give that man a seegar!!!
Bobby C

#14 OFFLINE   joblo

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Posted 04 January 2005 - 11:29 PM

pursuant section 339(a)(2)(A)

339(a)(2)(A) refers to 1998/99 grade B grandfathered subs.

No letters/choices required for white area subs.

#15 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 09:05 AM

339(a)(2)(A) refers to 1998/99 grade B grandfathered subs.

No letters/choices required for white area subs.

Try again. The law applies to any sub in a DMA that has their own locals now, and continues to apply to subscribers as new DMAs get locals. Even those in white areas.

JL

#16 OFFLINE   joblo

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 04:48 PM

Try again. The law applies to any sub in a DMA that has their own locals now


The law in its entirety, sure, but the section you posted does not. That section applies to grandfathered -- i.e. grade B -- subs only.

#17 OFFLINE   BabaLouie

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 05:39 PM

Oh, great...do I need to hire a lawyer to tell me what this law really means? :lol:

#18 OFFLINE   Link

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 05:55 PM

Try again. The law applies to any sub in a DMA that has their own locals now, and continues to apply to subscribers as new DMAs get locals. Even those in white areas.

JL


Isn't every location in the country in one DMA or another? White areas were a part of DMAs, just far enough away from the local station Grade B signals to justify getting a distant signal. Am I correct?

#19 OFFLINE   jdspencer

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 05:59 PM

I currently get DNS for all four major networks and the HD equivalents from DirecTV. So when the locals become available for my DMA (154) I'll have to make a choice between them or keep the DNS. Right? What happens if one of the networks isn't available locally? Can I keep that one DNS? What happens with the HD feeds if DirecTV doesn't get my HD locals. For me the selection will be easy. I'll keep the DNS. At least until they change the rules again. :)
DirecTV since '96, Waivers for ABC, CBS, NBC, & Fox, HR23-700 & HR24-500/AM21, using ethernet based MRV.

#20 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 10:17 PM

The law in its entirety, sure,

And that is what matters. I could post the whole section of USC but as long as you and I agree that it says what I said it said it's just a waste of typing.

Isn't every location in the country in one DMA or another? White areas were a part of DMAs, just far enough away from the local station Grade B signals to justify getting a distant signal. Am I correct?

Most everywhere in the country is in a DMA (the exception being portions of Alaska). White areas are geographical points outside the Grade B of ALL stations of a particular network, regardless of if they are in the customer's DMA or not. What has changed is that White Area residents in DMAs where their locals are offered will not be able to get distants in the future (their only option is their own DMA's locals). White Area residents in DMAs where locals are not offered CAN, for the time being, get distants. But they lose distants if they subscribe to locals when they do become available. The goal of SHVERA is that no customer in a DMA with locals offered can continue to get distants.

JL

#21 OFFLINE   Link

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 10:28 PM

And that is what matters. I could post the whole section of USC but as long as you and I agree that it says what I said it said it's just a waste of typing.

Most everywhere in the country is in a DMA (the exception being portions of Alaska). White areas are geographical points outside the Grade B of ALL stations of a particular network, regardless of if they are in the customer's DMA or not. What has changed is that White Area residents in DMAs where their locals are offered will not be able to get distants in the future (their only option is their own DMA's locals). White Area residents in DMAs where locals are not offered CAN, for the time being, get distants. But they lose distants if they subscribe to locals when they do become available. The goal of SHVERA is that no customer in a DMA with locals offered can continue to get distants.

JL


I take it the only purpose for distants in the future is for DMAs missing one of the major networks.
Also, are you saying that a DMA where locals are not yet available can freely subscribe to distants now with no waivers, but will have them replaced with their locals in the future?

#22 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 11:25 PM

I take it the only purpose for distants in the future is for DMAs missing one of the major networks.
Also, are you saying that a DMA where locals are not yet available can freely subscribe to distants now with no waivers, but will have them replaced with their locals in the future?

As far as I can tell distants can still be added to one's service under the right set of circumstances.

It isn't as easy as just living in a DMA without LIL service (soon only 50 E* markets / 80 D* markets). You also have to live outside the Grade B of all affiliates (including Low Power or Class A) of the network in question. If you live within the Grade B you will probably get that affiliate as a Significantly Viewed station (once your market gets LILs).

Satellite providers can offer ANY affiliate as their distant channel offering as long as the customer is outside the DMA of that affiliate and not blocked from distants by some other part of the law. Most likely we will see more "regional distants" where a neighboring DMA's channels are offered instead of NY/LA. Except in the extreme boonies, those channels are likely to be Significantly Viewed anyways.

JL

#23 OFFLINE   nightrider

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 12:02 PM

funny thing is this ,, last week i subscribed to dtv threw a grey market dealer , i am in canada , i do get all the 380's new york east channels i also get the hi def locals , i like to now how that company pulled that off ,

yesterday a friend in north carolina subbed me another account to dtv , i get no 380's and no locals period , it says searching for satellite , if i new this was going to happen i would of opened another account with the grey market dealer , any suggestions

#24 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 02:04 PM

yesterday a friend in north carolina subbed me another account to dtv , i get no 380's and no locals period , it says searching for satellite , if i new this was going to happen i would of opened another account with the grey market dealer , any suggestions

The searching is because the locals you seek are on a spotbeam that doesn't reach far far northern carolina. :D As far as missing distants, sounds like D* has interpreted the law to say no.

JL

#25 OFFLINE   joblo

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 03:50 PM

I could post the whole section of USC but as long as you and I agree that it says what I said it said

What matters is what it means, and I don't think we agree on that. My point was that the law does not require letters to white area subs, only grade B subs, and you seem to have taken exception to that.

The goal of SHVERA is that no customer in a DMA with locals offered can continue to get distants.

Under SHVERA, there can be no NEW distants subs in LIL areas (unless they get a waiver), but in most cases, people who already have distants can "continue to get" them, even if locals are available and even if they subscribe to locals.

I'm curious, do you deliberately choose your language to be ambiguous? Is there some reason why you wish to cause panic and alarm to distants subs? Do you work for the NAB or some local broadcaster?




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