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Distants question


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33 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   Link

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 10:28 PM

And that is what matters. I could post the whole section of USC but as long as you and I agree that it says what I said it said it's just a waste of typing.

Most everywhere in the country is in a DMA (the exception being portions of Alaska). White areas are geographical points outside the Grade B of ALL stations of a particular network, regardless of if they are in the customer's DMA or not. What has changed is that White Area residents in DMAs where their locals are offered will not be able to get distants in the future (their only option is their own DMA's locals). White Area residents in DMAs where locals are not offered CAN, for the time being, get distants. But they lose distants if they subscribe to locals when they do become available. The goal of SHVERA is that no customer in a DMA with locals offered can continue to get distants.

JL


I take it the only purpose for distants in the future is for DMAs missing one of the major networks.
Also, are you saying that a DMA where locals are not yet available can freely subscribe to distants now with no waivers, but will have them replaced with their locals in the future?

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#22 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 11:25 PM

I take it the only purpose for distants in the future is for DMAs missing one of the major networks.
Also, are you saying that a DMA where locals are not yet available can freely subscribe to distants now with no waivers, but will have them replaced with their locals in the future?

As far as I can tell distants can still be added to one's service under the right set of circumstances.

It isn't as easy as just living in a DMA without LIL service (soon only 50 E* markets / 80 D* markets). You also have to live outside the Grade B of all affiliates (including Low Power or Class A) of the network in question. If you live within the Grade B you will probably get that affiliate as a Significantly Viewed station (once your market gets LILs).

Satellite providers can offer ANY affiliate as their distant channel offering as long as the customer is outside the DMA of that affiliate and not blocked from distants by some other part of the law. Most likely we will see more "regional distants" where a neighboring DMA's channels are offered instead of NY/LA. Except in the extreme boonies, those channels are likely to be Significantly Viewed anyways.

JL

#23 OFFLINE   nightrider

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 12:02 PM

funny thing is this ,, last week i subscribed to dtv threw a grey market dealer , i am in canada , i do get all the 380's new york east channels i also get the hi def locals , i like to now how that company pulled that off ,

yesterday a friend in north carolina subbed me another account to dtv , i get no 380's and no locals period , it says searching for satellite , if i new this was going to happen i would of opened another account with the grey market dealer , any suggestions

#24 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 02:04 PM

yesterday a friend in north carolina subbed me another account to dtv , i get no 380's and no locals period , it says searching for satellite , if i new this was going to happen i would of opened another account with the grey market dealer , any suggestions

The searching is because the locals you seek are on a spotbeam that doesn't reach far far northern carolina. :D As far as missing distants, sounds like D* has interpreted the law to say no.

JL

#25 OFFLINE   joblo

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 03:50 PM

I could post the whole section of USC but as long as you and I agree that it says what I said it said

What matters is what it means, and I don't think we agree on that. My point was that the law does not require letters to white area subs, only grade B subs, and you seem to have taken exception to that.

The goal of SHVERA is that no customer in a DMA with locals offered can continue to get distants.

Under SHVERA, there can be no NEW distants subs in LIL areas (unless they get a waiver), but in most cases, people who already have distants can "continue to get" them, even if locals are available and even if they subscribe to locals.

I'm curious, do you deliberately choose your language to be ambiguous? Is there some reason why you wish to cause panic and alarm to distants subs? Do you work for the NAB or some local broadcaster?

#26 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 04:55 PM

What matters is what it means, and I don't think we agree on that. My point was that the law does not require letters to white area subs, only grade B subs, and you seem to have taken exception to that.

Sorry, your previous post was worded in a way that made it sound like you agreed with my accurate information.

Under SHVERA, there can be no NEW distants subs in LIL areas (unless they get a waiver), but in most cases, people who already have distants can "continue to get" them, even if locals are available and even if they subscribe to locals.

They MUST be subscribed to locals and distants as of enactment. If they didn't have locals taking locals loses their distants. If locals were not available and now become available the subscribers can't take them or they lose their distants. If subscribers did not have distants they can't get them if locals are available in their market.

I'm curious, do you deliberately choose your language to be ambiguous?

That's your opinion. Have you actually read the law in context or are you basing your opinion on the posts of others, intuition, or high hopes that you won't lose distants?

Bottom line: Distants are NOT REQUIRED to be offered by the satellite providers, and for the time being they do not seem to be selling them. So regardless of your understanding or my understanding of SHVERA, it comes down to the fact that you can't get distants unless the satellite providers offer them.

The lack of distants in the address brokers seem to make their interpretation obvious.

JL

#27 OFFLINE   puck

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Posted 08 January 2005 - 12:11 PM

Under SHVERA, there can be no NEW distants subs in LIL areas (unless they get a waiver), but in most cases, people who already have distants can "continue to get" them, even if locals are available and even if they subscribe to locals.


If I understand this correctly, having distants and a Philly local since December 1999, I'm not going to lose distants (another item is that my so called "true" locals became available within the past year in Scranton) or my current local? I currently have E****.

Thanks

#28 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 11:13 PM

47 USC 338 (h) as created by SHVERA




(h) ADDITIONAL NOTICES TO SUBSCRIBERS, NETWORKS, AND STATIONS CONCERNING SIGNAL CARRIAGE.—

(1) NOTICES TO AND ELECTIONS BY SUBSCRIBERS CONCERNING GRANDFATHERED SIGNALS.—






Any carrier that provides a distant signal of a network station to a subscriber pursuant section 339(a)(2)(A) shall

(A) within 60 days after the local signal of a network station of the same television network is available pursuant to section 338, or within 60 days after the date of enactment of the Satellite Home Viewer Extension and Reauthorization Act of 2004, whichever is later, send a notice to the subscriber

(i) offering to substitute the local network signal for the duplicating distant network signal; and


(ii) informing the subscriber that, if the subscriber fails to respond in 60 days, the subscriber will lose the distant network signal but will be permitted to subscribe to the local network signal; and

(B) if the subscriber

(i) elects to substitute such local network signal within such 60 days, switch such subscriber to such local network signal within 10 days after the end of such 60-day period; or


(ii) fails to respond within such 60 days, terminate the distant network signal within 10 days after the end of such 60-day period.





Perhaps now would be a good time to apologize, Lord Vader? :D

JL


No need to apologize, for I am correct. From My Master comes this more in-depth explanation. You can and will receive DNS feeds if:

1) You have an RV exemption - NO CHANGE. Nothing in the SHVERA has ANY effect on RV exemptions.

2) You have distant networks now AND subscribe to your local affiliates from your DBS provider - Depends upon HOW you obtained the distant networks...
a) You are within the Grade B contour of one or more local network affiliates (which means you were grandfathered under the SHVIA) - You may keep distant networks OR your local affiliates, but not both. Once you receive notice from your DBS provider, you have 60 days to select distant networks, if that is your preference. If you do not respond, distant network service will be discontinued.
B) You are outside the Grade B contour of one or more local network affiliates (whether according to ILLS prediction, the result of signal measurements, or the granting of a waiver from your local affiliate) - You may keep both distant signals and local affiliates. If you discontinue service, or move, or otherwise change the conditions of your subscription to local and/or distant signals, then you will fall under the provisions of item 4 below.

Note: The DBS providers are required to provide the names and addresses of distant network subscribers, if they do not, then they may not continue to provide distant signals.

3) You have distant networks now and your DBS provider does not offer your local affiliates - You may keep your distant networks. If and when locals are offered, if you want them you must give up the distant networks.

4) You do not currently have distant networks - A couple of possible outcomes, depending on your location:
a) You live inside the Grade B boundary of local affiliates - You can not get distant networks
B) You live outside the Grade B boundary of local affiliates and your DBS provider offers your in-market locals - you can not get distant networks.
c) You live outside the Grade B boundary of local affiliates and your DBS provider does not offer your in-market locals - You may subscribe to distant networks.

An explanatory statement of the legislation, as passed, can be found here:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpque...=TOC_61705&

Totally independent of these points, IF you live in a market where the local network affiliate is owned and operated (O&O) by the network, then you can get a distant High Definition (ONLY!!) feed of that network. If you local affiliate is not O&O then you are restricted to what they provide, HD or not.

There are also some cases where a station can be delivered outside of its DMA, but within its home state, if it is the only high power affiliate of its network in the state.

Bottom line, if you do not currently have distant networks, the only way to get them is to have an RV exemption, or live someplace where your DBS provider does NOT offer locals AND that is outside the Grade B contour for any network affiliate.

----------------

Nice try.

#29 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 11:02 AM

No need to apologize, for I am correct.

Thanks for the snappy reply (it only took you a week) but what you posted wasn't the issue.

JL

#30 OFFLINE   joblo

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Posted 14 January 2005 - 02:27 PM

They MUST be subscribed to locals and distants as of enactment. If they didn't have locals taking locals loses their distants. If locals were not available and now become available the subscribers can't take them or they lose their distants.

You continue to state this as if it is a general rule, but it is not.

One more time: ONLY GRADE B, GRANDFATHERED SUBSCRIBERS MUST GIVE UP DISTANTS IN ORDER TO GET LOCALS.

This is because, as I previously stated, the text you posted applies ONLY to said grandfathered, grade B subs.


If subscribers did not have distants they can't get them if locals are available in their market.

This is the only thing you wrote that is generally applicable.


Bottom line: Distants are NOT REQUIRED to be offered by the satellite providers, and for the time being they do not seem to be selling them. So regardless of your understanding or my understanding of SHVERA, it comes down to the fact that you can't get distants unless the satellite providers offer them.

The lack of distants in the address brokers seem to make their interpretation obvious.

Yet more disinformation. I checked D* and E*'s web sites both in late December and again today. D* says they are updating their site to take into account the new legislation. E*'s site was updated in December such that DNS is not available in LIL areas, but it continues to show distants available in non-LIL white areas, consistent with the new legislation.

Why do you paint the distants situation as worse than it is?

#31 OFFLINE   joblo

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Posted 14 January 2005 - 02:36 PM

2) You have distant networks now AND subscribe to your local affiliates from your DBS provider - Depends upon HOW you obtained the distant networks...
a) You are within the Grade B contour of one or more local network affiliates (which means you were grandfathered under the SHVIA) - You may keep distant networks OR your local affiliates, but not both.

I took exception to this in the other forum when Dan posted it. You can read my full reasoning over there, but the bottom line is that I don't think anyone who currently has both locals and distants will be forced to give up either.

#32 OFFLINE   joblo

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Posted 14 January 2005 - 02:48 PM

If I understand this correctly, having distants and a Philly local since December 1999, I'm not going to lose distants (another item is that my so called "true" locals became available within the past year in Scranton) or my current local? I currently have E****.

Thanks

The relevant grandfather dates are July 1998 through October 1999, IIRC, so presumably those provisions do not apply, and you should be fine.

I'm unclear what you mean by "Philly local", however. Do you mean you have a Philly service address and are receiving Philly LIL service? (That would mean you have all Philly stations, not just one.) In that case, your "true" locals are irrelevant. You cannot subscribe to them because you don't have a qualifying service address.

Or did you subscribe to one or more Philly stations a la carte back when E* was making all locals available as distants to qualified subs? In that case, you should be able to add your "true" locals now, unless I'm wrong about the dates and you are a grandfathered, grade B sub.

Bottom line: watch your mail for letters.

#33 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 14 January 2005 - 09:04 PM

You continue to state this as if it is a general rule, but it is not.

Believe what you want, lie or truth. I can't change that.

What you need to know is that satellite providers ARE NOT REQUIRED to offer distants, even to the 1998-99 grandfathered. If E* or D* decides to no longer offer distants in markets with locals it is entirely within the law. (If they decide to drop distants alltogether that is legal too!) Getting distants is a fleeting priviledge, not a right.

JL

#34 OFFLINE   William Millar

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Posted 14 January 2005 - 09:22 PM

Look Out!!!! I have been receiving the Los Angeles and New York stations, first with my C-Band dish and then with Dish network for over 16 years, I have been with Dish network from almost the start of the small dish and have had the New york and Los Angeles stations, this week Dish sends me a letter and tells me that they have an agreement with my local stations in Wichita Falls, Texas that I cannot no longer receive the out of state networks, and that they would ask for a special waiver from my local stations.

Well they did not get the waiver and tonight my NewYork and Los Angeles stations are gone, and if anyone was Grandfathered I sure was!!! as I said "Look Out" I think there going to cut off anyone that can receive local stations now because Dish has signed an agreement with the local stations to broadcast thier stations only.


Bill




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