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FCC Proposed Rules from SHVERA


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103 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   dfergie

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 09:59 PM

Np... :)

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#42 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 11:07 PM

FCC website documents and E-Filing systems will be unavailable from 8:00 PM (EST) on Monday February 7 until 6:00 AM (EST) on Tuesday February 8 due to scheduled maintenance.

For those who can't wait until morning ...

http://tk.com/shvera/

Broken down into four downloads so you can read the text separate from the cities list.

JL
Thanks to the unnamed for the bandwidth!

#43 OFFLINE   Link

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 12:20 AM

There are several stations missing from what should be listed as significantly viewed in some of the Illinois counties. Cable carries more than this list has.

#44 OFFLINE   Jacob S

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 01:09 AM

I think they need to do a bit of re-evaluating of what counties should get what stations. Its weird how in some particular counties they would only show only one of two or so stations that come out of the same city for some of the counties. Thats very messed up. Come on get it straight. There are going to be some people wondering why they are getting one station and not the other one especially when they come out of the same city. I dont know about the other DMA's but the one I am in shows two or so cities that the station is at. I am guessing that they are not basing it on that but where the tower is actually at.

I live closer to a city where another DMA is at in which only has one network there than the city where my own DMA is yet that channel is not on the list which I think is WRONG. I had people ask me about that particular channel in the neighboring county as well as here and I had to tell them that the law says that they are not allowed to receive that channel. That neighboring county that is in the other DMA in which that channel comes out of has all of our channels listed as significantly viewed. So basically they can see our channels but we cant see theirs. How stupid is that?

I guess this is the best that they could do for now until they have some modification made. They need to see what the cable companies offer their customers to get a good idea of what should be viewed. Why should my neighbor that has cable be able to get channels from my neighboring DMA but I can't on satellite even after something that would propose to view stations from the neighboring market?

#45 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 02:03 AM

In accordance with the SHVERA, we have compiled a list of stations that have been granted significantly viewed status pursuant to the Commission’s cable television rules. This list (“SV List”), attached as Appendix B, is a list of significantly viewed stations and the communities containing such stations combining the Commission’s original 1972 list of significantly viewed stations granted on a county-wide basis with stations added on a county or community-wide basis over the intervening years. When the Commission initiated the cable carriage rules in 1972, the goal was to be broadly inclusive in order to provide a wide range of programming choices for cable viewers by designating significantly viewed stations on a county-wide basis. The Commission provided that, after this initial period, stations can be added to the list on the basis of community surveys that focus on the area in which the station is significantly viewed. In addition, stations beginning operation after the initial survey period can use the county-wide methodology comparable to that used by Arbitron for the initial survey in lieu of a community-based survey.

Based on the short time frame mandated by the SHVERA for publication of the SV List, as well as the legislative history, we believe that Congress intends for satellite carriers to make use of the SV List to expand their carriage offerings so that their subscribers can begin to experience the benefits of the SHVERA as soon as possible. We are confident that the SV List appended to this Notice has a high degree of accuracy and, therefore, believe that both cable and satellite carriers may rely on its validity to commence service, consistent with the other requirements set out in the SHVERA and this proceeding, prior to the adoption of a final list. Nevertheless, in light of the length and age of the SV List, we are asking all interested parties to review the SV List to confirm its accuracy. . . . Parties may file comments in response to this Notice describing the nature and basis of any error, including changes in call sign or community. Such comments must include documentary evidence supporting the requested correction.



Amazingly enough, THE LIST was drawn based on the channels that are significantly viewed. Sometimes that can skip over a town or a county. Some stations are more appealing to urban or rural areas and may not reach significance in a continuous path. (There are non-contiguous DMAs as well, so this should be nothing new.)

THE LIST will change (it isn't THE FINAL LIST, whatever final means in a changing world). For now the FCC has confidence in what they provided. It is the starting point.

JL

#46 OFFLINE   gor88

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 05:50 AM

Something tells me that they will lose a lot of confidence once the feedback starts pouring in.

Mississippi full power commercial stations totally missing from the list:

WUFX FOX35 Vicksburg/Jackson
WKDH ABC45 Houston/Tupelo/Columbus
WMDN CBS24 Meridian
WGBC NBC30 Meridian
WNTZ FOX48 Natchez

#47 OFFLINE   Maphisto's Sidekick

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 07:37 AM

Something tells me that they will lose a lot of confidence once the feedback starts pouring in.

Mississippi full power commercial stations totally missing from the list:

WUFX FOX35 Vicksburg/Jackson
WKDH ABC45 Houston/Tupelo/Columbus
WMDN CBS24 Meridian
WGBC NBC30 Meridian
WNTZ FOX48 Natchez


I wonder about that.

I downloaded the file this morning, once the FCC server came back up, and checked out my old stomping grounds, Coffee County, Alabama.

Coffee
WTVY, 4, Dothan, AL
+WDFX-TV, 34, Ozark, AL (formerly WDAU)
WSFA, 12, Montgomery, AL


That completely misses WDHN, the ABC affiliate out of Dothan. Coffee County is part of the Dothan DMA.

I wondered if WDHN had just been completely left off the list...but I checked and it does show up in Houston County.

Since The List is supposed to be based on actual ratings...I can't help but wonder: were the missing stations accidentally left off The List...or are their ratings just that poor?

I'm planning to send in comments asking that stations carried locally via cable, available OTA within the Class B band, or from neighboring markets if there is no station of that network within the market (e.g., if no WB station in-market, it should be OK to import it from the next market over; consider also the lack of Spanish-language stations in The List) be deemed acceptable for "significantly viewed" standards.

#48 OFFLINE   ddobson

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 07:57 AM

Well, the cable companies win again.

In both Lake and Porter Counties in Indiana the Cable Companies offer most of the South Bend Indiana stations. According to this Document, they will not be available on satellite.

Or do the cable companies have to pull them now?

That would be interesting after people are used to having them for 20 years.
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#49 OFFLINE   JohnH

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 08:01 AM

Something tells me that they will lose a lot of confidence once the feedback starts pouring in.

Mississippi full power commercial stations totally missing from the list:

WUFX FOX35 Vicksburg/Jackson
WKDH ABC45 Houston/Tupelo/Columbus
WMDN CBS24 Meridian
WGBC NBC30 Meridian
WNTZ FOX48 Natchez


Why would any of these stations be listed as significanly viewed in any other market?

#50 OFFLINE   JohnH

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 08:03 AM

Well, the cable companies win again.

In both Lake and Porter Counties in Indiana the Cable Companies offer most of the South Bend Indiana stations. According to this Document, they will not be available on satellite.

Or do the cable companies have to pull them now?

That would be interesting after people are used to having them for 20 years.


Are Lake and Porter Counties in the South Bend DMA? If so the answer is here.

One has to ask how did they get those stations, since this is the list they are supposed to be working from?

#51 OFFLINE   BobMurdoch

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 08:36 AM

This SUX!

Monmouth County, NJ = All New York stations + NO Philly stations (my cable company has all except the CBS affiliate)

Ocean County, NJ = All New York stations + ONLY the ABC Affiliate from Philly. (The local Comcast has ALL of the New York and Philly Channels)

Once again, Congress issues press releases telling us how wonderful their legislation and then it turns out to be worthless (Or even worse..... with the now useless availability of sig. viewed channels which DON'T match cables', we get distants taken away and HD stalled for at least another 3 years for those of us >40 miles away from the city.
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#52 OFFLINE   BobMurdoch

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 08:39 AM

Hey, NOW we know why the NAB was SO happy with this legislation......

The NAB weasels win again. I wonder how big the check was to our elected leaders to sell us down the river like this.
"The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation." Henry David Thoreau Walden (1854)

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#53 OFFLINE   jagec82

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 08:51 AM

Some background info, followed by some questions/comments/observations.

DMA #5 (Boston/Manchester, NH) Existing DirecTV Lineup
WGBH-2 (PBS) Boston, MA
WBZ-4 (CBS) Boston, MA
WCVB-5 (ABC) Boston, MA
WHDH-7 (NBC) Boston, MA
WMUR-9 (ABC) Manchester, NH
WENH-11 (PBS) Durham, NH
WFXT-25 (FOX) Boston, MA
WUNI-27 (UNI) Worcester, MA
WSBK-38 (UPN) Boston, MA
WGBX-44 (PBS) Boston, MA
WWDP-46 (SNBC) Norwell, MA
WNDS-50 (Ind) Derry, NH
WLVI-56 (WB) Cambridge, MA
WNEU-60 (TEL) Merrimack, NH
WUTF-66 (TFA) Marlborough, MA
WBPX-68 (PAX) Boston, MA

FCC Mandated Lineup/Norfolk, MA County
WBZ-4 (CBS) Boston, MA
WCVB-5 (ABC) Boston, MA
WHDH-7 (NBC) Boston, MA
WSBK-38 (UPN) Boston, MA
WLVI-56 (WB) Cambridge, MA
+WBPX-68 (PAX) Boston, MA

So I guess for those stations I currently have (not including PBS), I lose? Instead of gaining any channels, I lose the New Hampshire ones I receive? Also, cable companies throughout my county carry all the New Bedford, MA/Providence, RI DMA stations. Why are they allowed to carry them, but satellite systems not?

As someone stated, this needs to be reviewed far more in-depth.

#54 OFFLINE   swing

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 08:53 AM

Some background info, followed by some questions/comments/observations.

DMA #5 (Boston/Manchester, NH) Existing DirecTV Lineup
WGBH-2 (PBS) Boston, MA
WBZ-4 (CBS) Boston, MA
WCVB-5 (ABC) Boston, MA
WHDH-7 (NBC) Boston, MA
WMUR-9 (ABC) Manchester, NH
WENH-11 (PBS) Durham, NH
WFXT-25 (FOX) Boston, MA
WUNI-27 (UNI) Worcester, MA
WSBK-38 (UPN) Boston, MA
WGBX-44 (PBS) Boston, MA
WWDP-46 (SNBC) Norwell, MA
WNDS-50 (Ind) Derry, NH
WLVI-56 (WB) Cambridge, MA
WNEU-60 (TEL) Merrimack, NH
WUTF-66 (TFA) Marlborough, MA
WBPX-68 (PAX) Boston, MA

FCC Mandated Lineup/Norfolk, MA County
WBZ-4 (CBS) Boston, MA
WCVB-5 (ABC) Boston, MA
WHDH-7 (NBC) Boston, MA
WSBK-38 (UPN) Boston, MA
WLVI-56 (WB) Cambridge, MA
+WBPX-68 (PAX) Boston, MA

So I guess for those stations I currently have (not including PBS), I lose? Instead of gaining any channels, I lose the New Hampshire ones I receive? Also, cable companies throughout my county carry all the New Bedford, MA/Providence, RI DMA stations. Why are they allowed to carry them, but satellite systems not?

As someone stated, this needs to be reviewed far more in-depth.


You shouldn't lose any channels. The significantly viewed list is only optional (for the satellite companies) and additive.

#55 OFFLINE   swing

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 08:59 AM

This SUX!

Monmouth County, NJ = All New York stations + NO Philly stations (my cable company has all except the CBS affiliate)

Ocean County, NJ = All New York stations + ONLY the ABC Affiliate from Philly. (The local Comcast has ALL of the New York and Philly Channels)

Once again, Congress issues press releases telling us how wonderful their legislation and then it turns out to be worthless (Or even worse..... with the now useless availability of sig. viewed channels which DON'T match cables', we get distants taken away and HD stalled for at least another 3 years for those of us >40 miles away from the city.


Northern Monmouth County doesn't get Philly stations on cable or over the air easily. I guess their viewing habits explain Monmouth.

As for Ocean County, it is odd only WPVI 6 made the significantly viewed list. I do remember in the late 90s, that KYW and WCAU were repositioned on their respective broadcast channel numbers on cable, which probably led to higher viewership but later.

North Western NJ counties (Warren, Hunterdon) in NY DMA, and Mercer Co. in Philadelphia DMA get a better lineup of Philly and NY signals over the Jersey Shore counties, but oddly enough Warren County and Hunterdon Co. cable systems dropped most Philly stations. The satellite lineup would be better for them.

WMGM 40 (NBC)-Atlantic City didn't make significantly viewed in its home county or any county. This list seems to be quite old. CH.48 listed for Philadelphia was the old WKBS, from the 70's. It went off the air for 10 plus years, and resigned as a small budget station WGTW 48, now a TBN station. When it came back in the 90s, it had a smaller audience, peanuts in rating share.

It is also odd that rural Schuylkill, Carbon and Monroe counties in PA aren't significantly viewed for their home town Scranton DMA channels (except for WNEP-ABC in Carbon), but instead the main Philadelphia channels (3, 6, 10), yet those counties are in Scranton DMA.

As one poster said, it looks FCC pulled a list from 1972, with a few inserted updates.

One difference is that cable companies have to carry the nearest of a broadcast network over a duplicating station, if the nearer station requests and provides a quality signal. In Ocean County, it has meant that Comcast cannot drop Philadelphia stations off the lineups, since the Philadelphia city of license is closer or atleast equal to that of NYC.

Ocean and Southern Monmouth is a large number of HHs, more than some of the small markets that DirecTV and Dish Network are doing now. It's too bad neither provider can be market responsive to them, by being able to activate both sets of locals, to match the cable companies there.

#56 OFFLINE   gor88

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 09:48 AM

Why would any of these stations be listed as significanly viewed in any other market?


Good question. Actually, the way this list reads, the significantly viewed stations INCLUDE those within the market. For example, Rankin (and Hinds) County reads as follows:

WLBT-TV 3 Jackson, MS
WJTV-TV 12 Jackson, MS
WAPT-TV 16 Jackson, MS
+WDBD-TV 40 Jackson, MS

All these stations are in the Jackson market which Rankin definitely belongs to. I figured that if this list only included out-of-market SV stations, the Hinds and Rankin lists should say "no significantly viewed stations in this county".

Given this pattern, why doesn't Lauderdale county (Meridian) NOT show its own NBC and CBS affiliates? Why doesn't the ABC in Tupelo/Columbus show in Chickasaw county, where the tower and city of license reside?

My point here is that, the way the list appears to be assembled, the stations I mentioned earlier should be significantly viewed in their own market. They would receive at least 3% of the total viewing in their markets. The stations may not be signficantly viewed outside of their market. However, having them omitted completely indicates a problem with the overall list IMHO.

#57 OFFLINE   wkomorow

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 09:59 AM

Two oddities:

First, there is one significantly viewed station (the hartford Fox station) that is not carried on any cable in the county (as far as I know). Second, those of us who receive all the stations in our DMA from another state were hoping that we would be able to get in-state stations carried by cable and available to those with roof-top antennas, but that did not happen.

#58 OFFLINE   derwin0

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 11:03 AM

Submitted my comments dealing with the screwups they did for Butts County, GA.
The direct link to file comments to 05-49 (SHIVA) is: http://gullfoss2.fcc...e&proc_id=05-49

#59 OFFLINE   jfraz

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 11:25 AM

Most of us agree that the list is woefully inadequate. I do not think the satellite providers will accept this as is. Many, Many stations do not even exist according to this list.

#60 OFFLINE   teknophyle

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 12:27 PM

Here it is, hot off the presses all 460 pages. Enjoy the read.

Adobe Acrobat: http://hraunfoss.fcc...FCC-05-24A1.pdf
Word: http://hraunfoss.fcc...FCC-05-24A1.doc

Added: Here is the press release from the FCC:
Adobe Acrobat: http://hraunfoss.fcc...OC-256592A1.pdf
Word: http://hraunfoss.fcc...OC-256592A1.doc
- Holtz


I have spoken with DirecTv and they know nothing about this and will NOT be making changes to anyone's account TFN! This could take another year from them to act on the customers behalf.




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