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VoomGate update: Dolan Eyeing DISH Deal?


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62 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   BobMurdoch

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Posted 07 March 2005 - 08:05 PM

- 31 brilliant, sharp HD channels
- new HD channels are coming on VOOM this month.
- a new HD-DVR is coming out soon
- Universal HD is an outstanding new addition

The only reason I can think of why a few people here would want VOOM to fail is because they are losers themselves. Otherwise, why would they emotionally invest themselves in the premise of VOOM failing? Could it because they don't have HDTV, or don't have VOOM?

I now have over 40 HD channels with more coming. I'm especially enjoying the excellent new Universal HD channel I just discovered on VOOM.

Why would a normal, reasonable person want to see any DBS provider to fail? That kind of thinking just isn't rational, it's upside-down :shrug:


The only reason I wanted it to fail was because I thought that E* would be the only one interested in the assets and that it would expand their bandwidth. Another way to go would be if V* packaged to service as an addon to E* which was on the same bird. I don't want two receivers active, only one, but I would pay extra for the service if it were available on E*.
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#42 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 07 March 2005 - 09:29 PM

The only reason I wanted it to fail was because I thought that E* would be the only one interested in the assets and that it would expand their bandwidth.

Unless the FCC disagrees or E* an V* recind their deal, E* will get Rainbow1 regardless of Voom's survival.

Voom can survive (or at least continue) on AMC-6.

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#43 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 07 March 2005 - 10:08 PM

Thank you. I am glad someone else sees the merit in what I have been suggesting for the last couple of years. I only wish that Charlie will work a deal to make this a reality for Voom and it's customers. Dish certainly needs the hd channels and I can see them making this work if they really wanted to. I never had Voom , but I do want to see it continue even if itha to become an hd content provider. The more hd out there the better for everyone. :D


Not trying to completely kick your idea in the teeth... but a couple of problems...

1. If I pay Dish for HBO, I would expect to get HBOHD for free... same for MAX, STARZ, SHO, etc... IF Voom had those, it would be a nightmare for the two companies to coordinate which channels I was entitled to have for "free" from the other company because I paid one for it... Voom would have to give me a bunch of HD for free, because I pay Dish for the regular channels... OR I'd end up paying twice for them, which is not cool.

2. As an add-on, Voom is simply ahead of its time. At 26-50,000 customers tops during its couple of years in business... that seems to indicate how many people were willing to buy it as an add-on. It would be really tough to start up a new business, offering only 30-50 channels of HD and saying you have to also get cable or Dish or DirectTV for the other channels you want, unless they were dirt-cheap like $25 a month or something. They would need a LOT of subscribers to make that work.

I'm sorry to see Voom not work out... but I think they were just a bad mix of all the worst things in business... Way ahead of their time on what they were good at, and bad at the rest of the stuff.

#44 OFFLINE   larrystotler

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Posted 08 March 2005 - 01:49 AM

I believe one of the biggest reasons that V* is failing is that while many more people are buying HD TVs, they are too damn cheap to pay for an HD service. I have installed several customers with SD boxes on HD TVs. I mean, what the heck is the point in buying a $5000 TV if you aren't going to actually use it to watch HD TV?????? People are basically cheap. Everyone has complained recently about E* and D* raising their rates. So how much would you pay to have V* as an add on service? HMMM.....I think I will start a poll on those 2 forums.....
Haven't logged on in almost 2 years. Haven't done installs in a long time. Good luck.

#45 OFFLINE   DonLandis

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Posted 08 March 2005 - 02:08 AM

Nice fantasy concept but it is not possible, legally. Reason is that Voom service we now have includes many independent network channels like HBOHD, starzHD. Why don't you make it clear in your two threads that what you propose is VOOM exclusive HD channels only are the ones possible for add-on service.
There are currently 21 of these exclusives:
http://www.voom.com/vhdo/index.jsp

#46 OFFLINE   stonecold

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Posted 08 March 2005 - 09:53 AM

Nick,

Voom should die. Voom is crap. Crappy crap that should die.

I am a voom am a voom sub my 1 year agreement was up this past febuary Voom sucked. nost of the time it looked like crap all that upconverted junk. Only true HD channels look good and then there was not enough True HD that E* didnt already have. Only reason why I still have them is I hope they go out oa business and then I will have something to take apart and play with. Like Primestar boxes.

#47 OFFLINE   BobMurdoch

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Posted 08 March 2005 - 10:08 AM

2. As an add-on, Voom is simply ahead of its time. At 26-50,000 customers tops during its couple of years in business... that seems to indicate how many people were willing to buy it as an add-on.


It wasn't marketed as an add on... it was marketed as a replacement for cable or the other satellite services. Unfortunately, they had WAY too few channels to compete. IF they were trying to get people to keep the existing services and just add new channels they might have suceeded, but the lack of a PVR and the undesirable setup of two receivers being used to watch TV kept me away.

They can still survive IF they hook up with Echostar, drop the channels they both share (HBO HD, etc.), and sell a package of unique channels as an addon to E* subscribers IF they can convince them to get a 61.5 dish (assuming they don't already have one for CBS HD on the east coast). Otherwise they are toast.
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#48 OFFLINE   jeslevine

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Posted 08 March 2005 - 10:53 AM

Nick,

Voom should die. Voom is crap. Crappy crap that should die.

I am a voom am a voom sub my 1 year agreement was up this past febuary Voom sucked. nost of the time it looked like crap all that upconverted junk. Only true HD channels look good and then there was not enough True HD that E* didnt already have. Only reason why I still have them is I hope they go out oa business and then I will have something to take apart and play with. Like Primestar boxes.


LOL

I don't agree with you, but you definitely have an opinion

#49 OFFLINE   larrystotler

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Posted 08 March 2005 - 12:18 PM

Nice fantasy concept but it is not possible, legally. Reason is that Voom service we now have includes many independent network channels like HBOHD, starzHD. Why don't you make it clear in your two threads that what you propose is VOOM exclusive HD channels only are the ones possible for add-on service.
There are currently 21 of these exclusives:
http://www.voom.com/vhdo/index.jsp


Probably because I didn't think about it like that. Anyone is welcome to correct me at any time....... I was more curious to see what the response would be. I intend to compare the results with a similar poll I did about HD channels a while back.................
Haven't logged on in almost 2 years. Haven't done installs in a long time. Good luck.

#50 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 08 March 2005 - 02:05 PM

It wasn't marketed as an add on... it was marketed as a replacement for cable or the other satellite services. Unfortunately, they had WAY too few channels to compete. IF they were trying to get people to keep the existing services and just add new channels they might have suceeded, but the lack of a PVR and the undesirable setup of two receivers being used to watch TV kept me away.

They can still survive IF they hook up with Echostar, drop the channels they both share (HBO HD, etc.), and sell a package of unique channels as an addon to E* subscribers IF they can convince them to get a 61.5 dish (assuming they don't already have one for CBS HD on the east coast). Otherwise they are toast.


As an add-on there are very few channels unique to them... most a bunch of channels that they own themselves... and they would have to charge way more than most people would be willing to pay for an add-on service. I, myself am paying $9.99 for the HD add-on pack at Dish... I wouldn't really want to pay a lot more than that...

So, if I'm only willing to pay say $10-$20 for a bunch of HD channels... do you know how many subscribers they'd need to make themselves a viable business? I don't... but its probably way more than they have managed to get so far...

Like I said... I think they had some good points and ideas... I think they are ahead on some things, and just wrong about others.

#51 ONLINE   harsh

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 02:14 PM

Hi rocatman:

I have only had experience with the 6000 and the 921, and they did not have simultaneous live outputs. You had to put them into SD mode in order to record, you could not put it into HD mode, and have an SD signal come out of the other outputs

With respect to the 921, why would you want to record through the SD output when you could record in HD using the DVR function?

There is rumored to be a diagnostic mode that allows simultaneous output on the 921.

This still begs the question with respect to the VOOM offering: Why would someone who is paying for HD programming want to record in SD?

#52 ONLINE   harsh

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 02:52 PM

It wasn't marketed as an add on... it was marketed as a replacement for cable or the other satellite services.

Let's look at the various alternatives:

Standard Cable ~ $60 70 SD channels (including locals)
E* or D* ~ $43 120-130 SD channels + locals
VOOM ~ $50 71 channels w/o locals

Unfortunately, they had WAY too few channels to compete.

Clearly, as far as standard cable goes, VOOM is competitive. Further, VOOM seems to be largely devoid of shopping channels which consume far too much bandwidth on the other services.

The product is layed out pretty well in theory, but the execution leaves something to be desired. The lack of locals and "must have" accessories is a bummer.

There are few things that everyone here can agree on and one of the biggest things we all look for is ways of configuring and paying next to nothing for precisely what we want. VOOM is not out of line in what they offer, they just can't deliver at the price point.

#53 OFFLINE   jeslevine

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 02:53 PM

With respect to the 921, why would you want to record through the SD output when you could record in HD using the DVR function?

There is rumored to be a diagnostic mode that allows simultaneous output on the 921.

This still begs the question with respect to the VOOM offering: Why would someone who is paying for HD programming want to record in SD?


Frankly, the quality not that bad through the SVHS output to a DVD

There are some shows on Discovery and Ecuador which I have done this with.

It also frees up space on my hard disk. When I had my 921 I have lost everything I had recorded there

#54 OFFLINE   Nick

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 03:22 PM

"I, myself am paying..." :confused:

Why not just "I am paying..."

What it comes down to is this: until economies of scale kick in, HD packages will, for the foreseeable future, run about $2 per channel.

Do the math.

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#55 ONLINE   harsh

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Posted 10 March 2005 - 02:27 PM

Frankly, the quality not that bad through the SVHS output to a DVD

But your paying for HD and getting a decidedly second generation SD product and that's not right. I find that recording a high PQ SD program gives me much better results than recording a downconverted HD program. Real-time MPEG2 compression as used with current DVD recorders often has a terrible time crunching the artifacts associated with previously compressed and/or transcoded source material.

#56 OFFLINE   jeslevine

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Posted 10 March 2005 - 02:58 PM

Hi harsh:

I do watch the shows in in TRUE HD, it is only the ones I want to them later that I record

If Voom survives, and releases their DVR, then it will be a moot issue

As far as I know you cannot record HD from Dish or DTV without hardware modifications of their receivers to utilize a firewire interface?

#57 OFFLINE   satellite_king2002

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Posted 15 March 2005 - 06:33 PM

- 31 brilliant, sharp HD channels
- new HD channels are coming on VOOM this month.
- a new HD-DVR is coming out soon
- Universal HD is an outstanding new addition

The only reason I can think of why a few people here would want VOOM to fail is because they are losers themselves. Otherwise, why would they emotionally invest themselves in the premise of VOOM failing? Could it because they don't have HDTV, or don't have VOOM?

I now have over 40 HD channels with more coming. I'm especially enjoying the excellent new Universal HD channel I just discovered on VOOM.

Why would a normal, reasonable person want to see any DBS provider to fail? That kind of thinking just isn't rational, it's upside-down :shrug:


ITS NOT THAT ANYONE WANTS TO SEE VOOM FALL FLAT ON IT'S FACE. I AGREE THAT VOOM HAS STELLAR PROGRAMMING, BUT ISSUE IS THAT THEY HIT THE MARKET WAY TOO SOON, AND CANNOT FUNCTION WITH HD PROGRAMMING ALONE.
HOW CAN A DBS COMPANY RATIONALLY EXPECT TO SURVIVE WITH ONLY 26,000 CUSTOMERS AND SLOTH-LIKE GROWTH.

#58 OFFLINE   Mikey

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Posted 15 March 2005 - 07:01 PM

ITS NOT THAT ANYONE WANTS TO SEE VOOM FALL FLAT ON IT'S FACE. I AGREE THAT VOOM HAS STELLAR PROGRAMMING, BUT ISSUE IS THAT THEY HIT THE MARKET WAY TOO SOON, AND CANNOT FUNCTION WITH HD PROGRAMMING ALONE.
HOW CAN A DBS COMPANY RATIONALLY EXPECT TO SURVIVE WITH ONLY 26,000 CUSTOMERS AND SLOTH-LIKE GROWTH.

I don't think that VOOM hit the market too soon. I think they timed it just right. The problem is that they botched their installation and support programs so badly that they were losing more subs than they were bringing on board after one year on the market. Momentum was lost, so badly that CVC decided to pull the plug.

When you get off to such a bad start, it's really hard to turn it around. Lots of people signed up as a novelty, or in sympathy, when VOOM seemed to be going dark soon, so there seems to have been a jump in subs early this year. If that growth rate were to continue, VOOM could be viable.

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#59 OFFLINE   Mike D-CO5

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 10:43 AM

I think if they would have hit the market say in 5 years or less they would have established the analog cut off date fro the U.S. , and then the demand for more hd would have grown. There is not that many people who have hd tvs or even know what hd is about yet. When and if they ever establish the cut off date, then people would either upgrade to hd or they would at least be aware of it.

Besides that the pricing was way to high for the first year. I don't know of to many people who wanted to pay 750.00 or higher for a hd receiver and they didn't even have all the cable channels , like SCI- FI, that most people wanted at first. Then you add the installation problems, billing errors most people had etc and you can see why they never added many subs.

Also a factor was the price for the hd tvs. They were quite high for sometime. The best bet for Voom for now is as an addon service to Dish.

#60 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 01:32 PM

Something I've never really heard said... so I'll say it :)

Consider this... Dish, DirectTV, and Cable all have sizable customer bases right now... and already have people signing up for the meager HD offerings they have at the moment.

From a business perspective... considering all the costs of doing business + Satellite launches and such... IF neither Dish nor DirectTV considers the market for HDTV big enough to put more money into expanding their infrastructure... how can we conclude that a brand new company that has to launch Satellites like VOOM did, and establlish itself in the industry would be viable?

Not a VOOM basher here... but from a logistics point of view... it seems like VOOM was behind from the start... considering that the folks in the best position to add the few existing HD channels weren't interested enough to do it... then you figure that VOOM itself didn't attract that many (50,000 isn't many in the scheme of a national company) people to its model.

I considered VOOM myself when it first started... but it was priced to high at the start... even now with free installs and no-buy on the receivers... the monthly charge is too high for an add-on service and not enough channels for a standalone service.

I think they either needed to wait a few years, as one poster just said... OR needed to synch-up fromt he start with both Dish & DirectTV to supplement their offerings and piggy-back on the already established customer base of those companies. VOOM, in that light supplying just HD feeds as an add-on to existing Dish & DirectTV customers could have done a lot better, and taken advantage of much lower startup costs by using the pockets of the big two Satellite guys.




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