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Dish Network - Letters Go Out Yet?


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13 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   fwdlink

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 08:06 PM

Has anyone received a letter from DISH as of yet regarding having to make a choice? I have waivers for all of the networks and subscribe to E/W DNS and Locals in the SF Bay Area and have not yet received any notice. I did however receive a notice for DirecTv which I promptly returned.

Anyone on Dish?

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#2 OFFLINE   waltinvt

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Posted 10 March 2005 - 08:46 AM

Has anyone received a letter from DISH as of yet regarding having to make a choice? I have waivers for all of the networks and subscribe to E/W DNS and Locals in the SF Bay Area and have not yet received any notice. I did however receive a notice for DirecTv which I promptly returned.

Anyone on Dish?


Got mine last month. "E" is as bad as "D" at Misinterpreting the eligibility requirements. At first I thought it was that both providers were just taking the conservative approach but there may be more to it but that's a theory for another thread.

Anyway, this is my understanding (and I may be wrong).

Per threads on other lists, the FCC has taken the "back door" route to clarifying the new and extended legislation by replying to letters and emails from satellite customers. Among other things, they have stated:

1. The old SHVERA is not gone - it's been extended and therefore it's rules still apply. Waivers still work. If they are denied, signal tests MUST be done at the sub's requests and the affiliate still has to pay for it if the signal's not there. Satellite providers are still supposed to request these waivers for you.
2. Whether your satellite provider offers analog LILs has absolutely nothing to do with your eligibility to receive HD DNS as far as the law goes. It's still whether you're "unserved" or not that counts and that's still based on grade B signal proximity.
A lot of this is right on the FCC web site.

There are some that have basically forced stations to concede waivers and convinced "D" to give them HD DNS by appealing to their legal deportments with not much more than replies from the FCC and excepts from the legislation. The "Walnut Creek" thread on AVS is a good example.

Some affiliates are actually granting temporary "HD only" waivers or "letters of no objection" which will give you the HD DNS until HD LILs are available.

3. The FCC has even "scolded" "D" for trying to "blame" DNS qualification problems on them.

Apparently neither "D" nor "E" has anyone bright enough to understand the legislation so to be safe, "E" takes the cheap approach and doesn't add any new HD DNS while "D" takes the "illusion" approach and "appears" to be offering a lot more than they are like all 4 HD DNS with a zillion HD LILs just around the corner. In reality, relatively few subs get HD DNS unless they're in O&O markets and HD LILs is still nothing more than hype at this point.

Anyway, even if "D" & "E" can't understand it, the FCC and Congress have made some distinctions between digital and analog and even though it's all pretty ambiguous, "unserved" viewers seem to be entitled to more than the satellite providers want them to think at this point.

Consider:
1. Law is so ambigious, few people can understand it.
2. Sat providers keep customers in the dark but make it very clear that you may loose what distants you have if you switch companies.
3. Lot of talk but basically NO new HD for anyone and 3rd alternative "V" seems to have been taken out of the picture.

It's like all of a sudden the providers are holding ALL the cards and subs have fewer choices than ever. They can both raise their prices - what can you do ? They can reneg on their promises - what can you do ? They can either offer lousy receivers or charge 3 times more than they're worth - what can you do ? I mean heck, "E" even has the gall to come out with a new HD DVR (942), admit it will probably be obsolete soon but dictate that you'll pay $250 just for the privilege or being able to rent it for another $10 per month.

What's real discouraging is that "D" & E"" will probably get away with all this until cable starts to catch up. But maybe that was the plan all along.

#3 OFFLINE   fwdlink

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Posted 10 March 2005 - 11:07 AM

Thanks for the reply, I appreciated the comments too, and I have to admit that I echo many of your feelings, as I'm sure many out here do. My concern is that I have DNS and LIL with Waivers and have received no such letter, which has my antenna raised up a bit because I haven't been contacted. I guess it's going to take me picking up the phone and finding out just what's going to happen to me.
I've seen that many DTV customers are also complaining about not receiving their postcards either and finding out they were scheduled for disconnect. I'm not about to give up my distants if I can help it.

#4 OFFLINE   waltinvt

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Posted 11 March 2005 - 07:49 AM

Thanks for the reply, I appreciated the comments too, and I have to admit that I echo many of your feelings, as I'm sure many out here do. My concern is that I have DNS and LIL with Waivers and have received no such letter, which has my antenna raised up a bit because I haven't been contacted. I guess it's going to take me picking up the phone and finding out just what's going to happen to me.
I've seen that many DTV customers are also complaining about not receiving their postcards either and finding out they were scheduled for disconnect. I'm not about to give up my distants if I can help it.


Yea it's an interresting situation. People are upset when they get the letters and upset if they don't. I guess it's an indication on how screwed up this whole DNS thing is.

Because the FCC has not issued any rules or clarifications, nobody knows for sure whats happening. The DBS legal departments probably do but both "D" & "E" are spinning it to their advantage right now and this has got the FCC a little ticked off. Will they do anything about it - I doubt it.

DBS could give any sub in this country that has an HD receiver and is out of the Grade "B" signal area the 4 distant HD feeds if they wanted to. Analog DNS is a different story but the HD feeds are seperate and the FCC understands that. Even the affiliates understand it, which is why some are granting temporary "HD only" waivers or "letters of no objection". The real question is why aren't "E" & "D" really persuing this ?

#5 OFFLINE   Vermonter

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Posted 11 March 2005 - 11:44 AM

Walt;

Have you tried to gain an HD waiver from the Burlington broadcasters so as to get the HD DNS service? Yea this is pissing me off too.

Thanks

#6 OFFLINE   fwdlink

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Posted 11 March 2005 - 12:32 PM

Some interesting feedback that I received is that an inerpretation of the law that was just given to me may explain why I have not received a letter. Apparently since E* qualified me in 2001, which was via waivers I already had acquired for D* in 1999, I am technically classified under the new "tougher" guidlines for Grade B etc. and thus the new legislation does not require me to choose. Thus I am not receiving a letter because I can continue to receive both local and DNS. My situation on D* is not so lucky, as I was qualified in 1999, which the new law states that 1999 or before, even though grandfathered, states that I must choose between DNS or LOCAL. Hence the reason I got a letter from D*...
All will be known on the 7th of April as to whether I'm cut off on E* or not...I know that I will on D* since I already sent the card back to keep my distants, good riddence to my locals, and no issue if I get to keep them on E*, which will be a treat.

#7 OFFLINE   waltinvt

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Posted 12 March 2005 - 07:42 AM

Walt;

Have you tried to gain an HD waiver from the Burlington broadcasters so as to get the HD DNS service? Yea this is pissing me off too.

Thanks


I haven't yet. That's why I was posting to see if anyone up here had.

I have "E" and the CBS HD feed which is all they offer anyway. I've talked to a few "D" CSRs about switching but have yet to connect to anyone that knows anything. Both told me that "D" provides the Vermont locals in HD now which we know is a crock.

If I had been a "D" customer right along, I'd certainly try what the guys in Walnut Creek did to get the HD DNS feeds. I was hoping to get some feedback first from someone in this area with "D" that has tried it. I really don't want to drop "E" and loose my CBS HD until I know for sure I can get all 4 HD DNS from "D".

It really ticks me off too. Here we are in probably as "white" a digital white area as you can get; no OTA options; no HD on cable options; none of our local networks are O&O; and we have to go through this crap.

Areas like ours should be considered automatic qualification for HD DNS.

Even though the sat provider is suppossed to apply for the waivers, I may try myself and then present them to "D".

#8 OFFLINE   fwdlink

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Posted 12 March 2005 - 01:50 PM

I haven't yet. That's why I was posting to see if anyone up here had.


Even though the sat provider is suppossed to apply for the waivers, I may try myself and then present them to "D".


Walt, I'd do exactly that, the only loss is a little bit of time and postage. You just may get a satisfying result. By the way, do a quick search on HD Qual, I did see somewhere that someone posted the 800 number into DTV that is specific to the HD Network Qualificaiton group, they'd be your best bet to talk to.

#9 OFFLINE   SteveinDanville

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Posted 23 March 2005 - 06:36 PM

Has anyone received a letter from DISH as of yet regarding having to make a choice? I have waivers for all of the networks and subscribe to E/W DNS and Locals in the SF Bay Area and have not yet received any notice. I did however receive a notice for DirecTv which I promptly returned.

Anyone on Dish?

I got my letter about a month ago. I'm just like you; live in the Bay Area, have distant networks since '97, and locals through Dish since they were uplinked. I'm totally on the fence, and very pissed that I even have to make a choice. If I stick with distants, I lose all my locals, not just the networks, and if I keep the locals, I lose 10:00 p.m. shows that I can watch at 7:00 p.m. KGO just told me about an hour ago that they've had thousands of requests for waivers, and they have not nor will they ever grant a waver. It's an ad revenue and marketing issue for them. What a joke...

#10 OFFLINE   joblo

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Posted 23 March 2005 - 11:36 PM

and very pissed that I even have to make a choice. [...] KGO just told me about an hour ago that they've had thousands of requests for waivers, and they have not nor will they ever grant a waver.

Explain to them that unless they grant you a waiver, you will turn off their own signal in favor of distants. They might change their tune if enough people do that.

#11 OFFLINE   Greg Bimson

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 07:44 AM

joblo, you do realize that KGO is an ABC owned-and-operated station, and they already have a blanket waiver for distant HD ABC feeds? And simply by customers in the Bay Area asking for a waiver, the realization is that even if customers turn off the local feeds in favor of a distant network, KGO will still be the only place for customers to receive any ABC programming.

#12 OFFLINE   joblo

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 07:30 PM

Uh, Greg, maybe I'm missing something, but we're talking here about people who already have both LIL and DNS and are being asked to give up one or the other, yes?

So if they give up LIL/KGO, they will still have ABC programming from whatever distant city or cities they have, right? (Assuming ABC was not excluded from that DNS for some reason, of course, of which the poster above gives no indication...)

Thus, I don't follow your conclusion that KGO will be the only place for people such as the poster above to get ABC programming...

#13 OFFLINE   scottchez

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 07:48 PM

Im confused.

What if you have all Local Channels avl, but you also get an RV waiver for the east and west national networks.

That would be 3 DMAs. Is this allowed under the new law?

My locals are on a Spot beam so I cant travel very far can get them.

#14 OFFLINE   NightRyder

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 10:08 AM

Im confused.

What if you have all Local Channels avl, but you also get an RV waiver for the east and west national networks.

That would be 3 DMAs. Is this allowed under the new law?


With an RV waiver, yes. The new bill didn't modify the RV waiver section of the old one.


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