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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Why Can't Dish Offer The Same HD As DTV?


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14 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Equus911

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 09:00 AM

Hiyas:

OK, so I'm building a new home in the northwest Oregon area, near the Columbia River. Believe me, this home is going to have the mac-daddiest home theater I can afford. :D The basement is being custom-made with a 2-tiered floor, huge screen - well I could go on and on. The point is I want everything to be perfect.

I've been scrutinizing everything I can for Dish vs DTV. At my previous residence in CA I've had SD Dish for years and been fine with it. With HDTV there's a whole new cat in the house and I need advice. :confused:

So far everything I can find leads me to want to stay with Dish, as I love what that 942 can do and I like Dish's pricing and packages and promotions. But there are two features that DirecTV has that I wish Dish had. One is the ethernet port on the back of the Tivo so you can download your movies (I used to use DishRip on my 7100 to pull movies off and burn em to DVD - no way to do that with the 942 that I can see).

Second, and the big one: What is it that DirecTV has that lets them offer the networks in HD to way more people? I'm not talking about local channels; I could give a rat's *** about my local news. I'm talking about just ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX/UPN in high def. According to Dish, I'm eligible for the locals package out of Portland. But that's not HD. According to antennaweb, I can't get Portland's HD networks OTA, although my antenna-guru friends say it's about 50 miles LOS and I'm up on a hill so it's likely I can. I asked Dish if I could get the HD networks from LA and they said no, not in my market. I asked DirecTV and they said no problem, that if I got their HD package I would automatically get networks out of LA or NY in HD. Why can DirecTV offer this and Dish can't? That's a real set back. :mad:

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Equus

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#2 OFFLINE   juan ellitinez

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 09:08 AM

D* offers hdtv light Charlie would prefer to offer REAL hd not overcompressed crap

#3 OFFLINE   KingLoop

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 09:38 AM

...According to antennaweb, I can't get Portland's HD networks OTA, although my antenna-guru friends say it's about 50 miles LOS and I'm up on a hill so it's likely I can...

I would see what I could get OTA before making an investment in D*. For the amount it costs to purchase a standard HD IRD from D* you could lease upgrade to a 942. That's significant I think.
KL

#4 OFFLINE   NightRyder

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 09:51 AM

The information you received from D* is questionable. Very few people outside O&O areas qualify for D* HD networks. None of Portland's big 4 (CBS, ABC, NBC, FOX) are O&O stations. I live 80 miles from Portland, in a genuine "white area", and don't qualify for HD DNS under D* current scheme. D* CSR's are a lot like E*, you have to take everything they say with a grain of salt.


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#5 OFFLINE   lazaruspup

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 10:12 AM

Hiyas:

But there are two features that DirecTV has that I wish Dish had. One is the ethernet port on the back of the Tivo so you can download your movies (I used to use DishRip on my 7100 to pull movies off and burn em to DVD - no way to do that with the 942 that I can see).


THe port on the back of the HDTivo is not active. Nor do I think it will become active. As much as I like my DirecTV, Tivo is on its way out with D* and on its way to Comcast and other providers who will provide long term agreements with them to support software and hardware development. With Newscorp's own DVR software and hardware scheme coming this way this summer/fall/winter, don't expect too much more out of Tivo in the way of development. Just look at the development thus far, no new product announcements at CES and the guides are still terribly slow. D* is not their highest priority now, so don't expect the home networking option to work anytime soon on the D* Tivos.
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#6 OFFLINE   Jim5506

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 07:13 PM

Lazaruspup is correct.

TiVo is NOT going to activate the network connection on DirecTiVo boxes, since DirecTV has discontinued its agreement with TiVo.

Now only stand-alone units are networkable, and MAYBE next year they will network the units with DVD recorders built in.

#7 OFFLINE   Jacob S

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 07:31 PM

DirecTv probably vies HD as HD whether it is lite or not, just like how they compress the current SD signal but still say its clearer and still digital.

#8 OFFLINE   Equus911

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 01:10 AM

My mistake. It's not the ethernet port that's active, it's the USB port, which my friends have modified to make work on an ethernet network. Suffice to say, they can easily get their movies off and onto a DVD. Can't do it with the 942 because of the encryption (lame!).

What do you mean by "HD Lite"? I figured the HD networks out of LA or NY would be the same? D* and E* both carry them, but D* lets you have them in a lot more non-LA or non-NY markets, like Oregon, apparently. I don't get why E* can't do that too. Clarify?

#9 OFFLINE   alebowgm

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 01:34 AM

Because the HDTV feeds that DirecTV carries are from LA/NY, you need to live in that designated marked to recieve it. Alternativly, if you live in an O&O market (which basically means a market where the parent company such as Newscorp, Viacom, NBCUniversal, Disney, etc) own the local station (off hand, I believe Atlanta is a market like this), you can also get the distant feed as the parent companies dont care what you see (where as local affiliate stations such as your Portland Fox which is owned by a seperate company that has a contract to carry Fox programming does care. You used to be able to get a waiver but unders SHIVA, you no longer can).

Long story short, even though a CSR is saying one thing, the end result will be another. People say DTV has HDTVLite because DirecTV uses so much compression in the datastream for its HDTV programming that the quality isn't as good compared to DishNetwork which uses extremly little compression (if any) for its HDTV. The best bet, assuming you dont want the few HD stations that DirecTV does have as opposed to Echostar for the time being is to pick up the 942 and mount an antenna as high in the sky as you can. Remember with UHF, the farther the signal, the higher you need to have the antenna to pull it in. I know where I live, someone I know has an antenna tower that is 125feet. The thing is stupid big. However he can pull in HDTV stations from markets over 100miles away (as well as lots of Analog stations from markets as far as 175miles away (although it is NTSC and not ASTC so the quality isnt great, and obviously by 2009 wont even be available anymore unless the stations come in via ASTC at Full Power)). If you dont mind a large antenna, that is the way to go as may/probably will pull in stuff from Eugene, Seattle and who else knows where once a lot of these stations go to Full Power (as many are only broadcasting at lower powers for the time being).

Obviously, there is a chance that it wont come in but a big antenna in Portland would probably get that, plus some other stragglers...

942 looks like the way to go (too bad for no MPEG4)

NOTE: I dont really think there is anything DirecTV can give you rule wise that Dish can not, unless it is per an agreement that has been made for exclusive rights such as NFL Sunday Ticket, or Dish does not carry the station such as YES/TREO

#10 OFFLINE   Equus911

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 05:34 AM

OK thanks much. Based on the terrain (up on a hill) and the distance from Portland (45 miles) I'm told that a good antenna on the roof should pick up the digital portland channels. We'll see. I'm mad that DTV told me something that probably isn't true.

Equus

#11 OFFLINE   derwin0

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 06:47 AM

off hand, I believe Atlanta is a market like this

The only network affiliate O&O in Atlanta is Fox.
There are only 4 markets where all 4 Networks are O&O. They are New York, Philadelphia, Chicago, and Los Angeles.

#12 OFFLINE   invaliduser88

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 07:07 AM

I wish Charlie would quite trying to kiss Hollywoods big *ss by not providing a method for us to archive content that we want to keep.

#13 OFFLINE   larrystotler

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 10:14 AM

No one is keeping you from saving the content you recorded. They are keeping you from doing it at the original level of PQ due to their fear, which unfortunately has been proven many times over, that people will make copies and sell them or give them to their friends. It is fairly easy to copy an encrypted DVD and save the copy. A lot of people who subscribe to NexFlix do just that. They are the one that are breaking the law, and making it hard for those of us who wish to make fair use copies for ourselves. Or the music and TV show swappers on the internet. As someone who has only owned 1 legal copy of WinDoZe(which came with my copy os OS/2 v2.1), I can see why there is such a problem. This is why I use and support open standards like Linux and the GNU and GPL. Unfortunately, it will be a while before Linux is really mainstream. Even the TiVo boxes use Linux to help keep costs down, as do the 721/921/322/522/942 receivers.

The system that has served these industries is coming apart, and they are doing everything they can to keep it the way it has been, whether we like it or not. I'm not supporting them. Just explaining the situation.
Haven't logged on in almost 2 years. Haven't done installs in a long time. Good luck.

#14 OFFLINE   jcrobso

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 09:02 AM

Be truly thankfull for Linux ! Now just close your eyes and think what it would like it they used a version of MS Windows. Are you screaming yet?? Is you heart pounding??

45~50 miles with a good antenna should work, maybe add a 10db amp. I have found out with digital OTA you need a much better signal than with analog.

If the MMPA had there way no one would be able to save content.

I still have a PC with O/S2 Warp 4 on it. When I did grudgingly go Win98SE I discovered the joys of have to reboot daily.

#15 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 07:10 PM

It is probably worth mentioning that since right now a rare few DirecTv customers actually qualify to receive those Networks in HD... technically speaking, most Dish customers ARE getting the same HD Networks as DirecTV customers :)

Don't believe me? Wander to the DirecTv forum and see the other side of the argument... from customers who want to know why they don't qualify.

DirecTv is advertising them and dangling the carrot... but unless you're one of the handful of markets that qualify, then you're comparing apples to oranges. For folks in those qualifying markets, I can certainly see why DirecTv would be more attractive.




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