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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Dish Seeks to Move AMC-16 to 118.7 W


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13 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   rocatman

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 02:31 PM

Dish has applied to the FCC to move AMC-16 to 118.7 W for Ku band operation. The 118.7 W slot is a Canadian Ku band slot. Dish already has a lease agreement with Telesat to use all the Ku band at 118.7 W and Telesat is planning to launch the Anik F3 satellite to that location in early 2006. This application would allow Dish to use the 118.7 W slot with AMC-16 in the interim until Anik F3 is launched. Undoubtedly a Superdish could be used to pick up 110, 119 and 118.7 although I would think a single dish for both 118.7 and 121 would be tricky. It also should be possible to have a single dish do 110, 118.7 or 121, 119 and 129. Here is the FCC link:


http://svartifoss2.f...erC/File Number

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#2 OFFLINE   JohnH

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 03:06 PM

This would seem to put the Ka license at 85w in Jeopardy.

#3 OFFLINE   rocatman

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 03:44 PM

This would seem to put the Ka license at 85w in Jeopardy.


That is correct unless the FCC gives SES Americom a waiver/extension for the Ka band for 6 - 9 months. Perhaps Dish/SES Americom is not worried about losing the Ka band license or not worried about being able to get it back. Of course if it is lost, anyone could apply for it since it is on a first come first serve basis now at the FCC. This action may provide some insight into Dish's near term interest in using Ka band although they still have AMC-15 and E-9 out there and have recently applied for more of the Ka bandwidth at 121 W using E-9. Certainly 85 W is an awkward slot for Dish to use currently but they could tie it to the 77 W DBS slot and maybe the 86.5 W DBS slot (that Dish has applied for) in the future.

Since AMC-2 is moving back to 85 W, it can hold the Ku band license at 85 W for SES Americom.

#4 OFFLINE   larrystotler

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 10:54 AM

Undoubtedly a Superdish could be used to pick up 110, 119 and 118.7 although I would think a single dish for both 118.7 and 121 would be tricky. It also should be possible to have a single dish do 110, 118.7 or 121, 119 and 129.


Wouldn't work. You can't use the same location for both Ku-DBS and Ku-FSS on the same dish. You wouldn't be able to use 118.7 and 119 on the same dish.
Haven't logged on in almost 2 years. Haven't done installs in a long time. Good luck.

#5 OFFLINE   Mike123abc

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 11:05 AM

Wouldn't work. You can't use the same location for both Ku-DBS and Ku-FSS on the same dish. You wouldn't be able to use 118.7 and 119 on the same dish.


You would need a single LNB that did both bands, you could focus on the 118.7 and be close enough for the 119 DBS to work.

#6 OFFLINE   JohnH

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 11:49 AM

Larry is correct assuming using conventional LNBFs, but that is sort of like saying you cant do C band and Ku FSS on the same feed and we know that does work. Probably some feed assembly configuration will do the circular and linear at the same time.

#7 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 12:12 PM

You can be a couple of degrees off on DBS satellites and still get a usable signal.
119 DBS and 118.7 FSS will work on a single dish.

JL

#8 OFFLINE   rocatman

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 04:57 PM

I have to believe that Dish has been looking at a single dish for at least 110, 118.7 and 119 for a while since the lease agreement with Telesat for all the regular Ku band at 118.7 has been in place since the fall of 2004. Dish may also be developing a dish that can also get 129 since the agreement with Ciel has been in place since May of 2004. I can not see any reason why the FCC would disapprove the move of AMC-16 to 118.7 W but as John H has pointed out, this puts the Ka band license at 85 W in jeopardy.

The big question is why Dish is in such a big hurry to be able to use the 118.7 slot instead of waiting until early to mid 2006 for the Anik F3 satellite to be operational unless of course there has been a delay in the construction of that satellite. According to the Gunter Space Page website Anik F3 will have C band, Ka band and 32 Ku band TPs which is similar to E-9 instead of the 24 TPs that AMC-16 has. Obviously a satellite that provides three different bands is more complicated and therefore more likely to have construction delays. Here is the link to the Gunter site:

http://www.skyrocket...dat/anik-f3.htm

The other possibility is that Dish does not want to get behind DirecTV when it comes to HD and will roll out their MPEG-4 receivers and lots of HD programming including HD locals in the next few months.

#9 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 05:36 PM

The nicest part of 118.7 is that line of sight is nearly a given for Dish Network subscribers. It will make a nice overflow for things that don't fit well on 119-110, such as local HD channels for those who have their locals 100% on 119.

121 isn't too far away from 119 but some have had line of sight problems.
105 is even further away from 110 - and there are people who can't get 110.
I'm betting on HD locals or other non-national programming.

My "plan" has 119-110 filled with all national channels, HD and SD, plus spotbeams with as many SD LIL markets that will fit. Add a third satelite, either DBS or FSS, to get SD LIL that won't fit on 119-110 and HD LILs. But that's my plan, not E*'s. :D

JL

#10 OFFLINE   JohnH

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 06:06 PM

BTW: 32 Ku Tps is normal for the ANIK family of satellites. There is a difference from EchoStar 9 though. Echostar 9 has odd numbered Tps as Vertical and Even numbered Tps as Horizontal. The Anik family has 1-16 as Horizontal and 17-32 as Vertical. The center frequencies are different as well.

#11 OFFLINE   rocatman

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 07:03 PM

BTW: 32 Ku Tps is normal for the ANIK family of satellites. There is a difference from EchoStar 9 though. Echostar 9 has odd numbered Tps as Vertical and Even numbered Tps as Horizontal. The Anik family has 1-16 as Horizontal and 17-32 as Vertical. The center frequencies are different as well.


Based on AMC-15, the SES Americom satellites are similar to E-9 with the odd TPs as vertical, evens as horizontal except they only have 24 TP frequencies as opposed to 32 for E-9 and Anik F3. I believe the TPs on AMC-15 and 16 are wider and should be capable of greater capacity which could be an advantage with HD.

I wonder if the difference in the frequency schemes will cause a hiccup in the FCC approval process. I also wonder if it will cause receiver software problems if and when Anik F3 replaces AMC-16 at 118.7 W.

#12 OFFLINE   JohnH

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 12:55 AM

AMC-16 at 118.7w is likely to cause some problems with some 121 SuperDISH alignments already in place.

#13 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 01:26 AM

Mis-aimed dishes? SuperDish already needs to be 2º compliant on kuFSS. Galaxy 10R is at 123º and has active ku. Does it interfere?

I also note that 105º is between AMC-1 at 103º and Anik F1 at 107.3º (hmm .. 2.3º separation, where have I seen that on an Anik slot? :) ). They don't seem to interfere with AMC-15. (I'm in the 48dB band for both of those birds. They have the entire ConUS and Mexico in the 44 or better on the Anik.)

Some people may have to adjust their dish if they havn't zeroed in on 121.

JL

#14 OFFLINE   JohnH

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 11:52 AM

You need an LNBF for this configuration? :D

http://www.sadoun.co...1-Quad-lnbf.htm




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