Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

Picture Quality, E* vs. D*, opinions from users who have or had both? (renamed)


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
13 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Spliff

Spliff

    New Member

  • Registered
  • 9 posts
Joined: Sep 20, 2005

Posted 23 September 2005 - 09:05 AM

OK I got my Dish 500 installed last Saturday and so far I'm really digging it. I think the PQ is excellent, better than expected on some channels, worse on some others.

My friends came over the other night to watch a movie. They used to have D* but cancelled it because he lost his job, money probs, etc. I asked them if the picture quality was as good as D* and they said no it wasn't. They noticed the compression artifacts that are obvious on some channels (HBO2 and HBOCMDY seems to be the worst offenders after locals) Everything I've read says that E* and D* are pretty identical except in HD where E* is far superior.

The other thing I was thinking was that I have my receiver connected to a nice 27" with S-video, where they used to have their receiver connected to a smaller 19" w/ composite. I'm thinking that if they hooked D* up to their brand new 36" Toshiba then they are definitely going to see compression artifacts that they didn't see before.

What do you guys think? Are there any sites online that compare screenshots of E* and D* so we can get a definitive idea about which has better picture quality?

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#2 OFFLINE   ww2154

ww2154

    Cool Member

  • Registered
  • 17 posts
Joined: Aug 03, 2004

Posted 23 September 2005 - 09:41 AM

I do not know about if D or E is better but I think part of the problem with E is the pq of the 811. I have the 811 and the 301, on the 811 the hd is great but hbo and showtime look like they have a lot of compression on the 811 but I do not see it on the tv that the 301 is hooked up to. The pq on the 301 is great on my sony 34 tv on all channels even my locals.

#3 OFFLINE   Spliff

Spliff

    New Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 9 posts
Joined: Sep 20, 2005

Posted 23 September 2005 - 10:18 AM

BTW I've got a 625 DVR.

#4 OFFLINE   Mike123abc

Mike123abc

    Hall Of Fame/Supporter

  • Gold Members
  • 2,818 posts
Joined: Jul 19, 2002

Posted 23 September 2005 - 10:36 AM

Dish and Directv compress the picture in different ways. Plus, they also prioritize channels differently. So, a definitive answer to the compression who is better question cannot be really answered easily. Standard definition compression is going to be a perference of the viewer as to which one compresses less. If your favorite channels have more priority on one vs the other you are going to favor the one that prioritizes your channels.

In HD, Dish does compress a lot less. Dish has some current technology that is better than DIRECTV for HD, mainly 8PSK and more satellites.

#5 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Moderators
  • 19,790 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 23 September 2005 - 10:40 AM

I always find it hard to make a fair comparison because I have one HDTV and one 32-in standard one. HD looks great in my main room... but some of the SD channels look compressed more. However, most channels look great on my 32-in standard TV.

I know the compression is still there, but my older TV isn't fine enough resolution nor big enough to make the problems stand out.

Besides trying to compare the different compression on different channels, DirecTV vs Dish, and HD vs non-HD... you also have to compare the hardware receiver models and different models of TV.

I'd be hard-pressed to find enough examples to say one company was definitively worse than the other... but certainly you can find examples for a particular channel and your TV that might be most important to make your decision.

#6 OFFLINE   buckyp

buckyp

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 159 posts
Joined: Dec 17, 2003

Posted 23 September 2005 - 06:11 PM

I have both D* and E*. I have a DTV tivo an 811 and a 522 all hooked up to the same 65" Toshiba. While of course the 811 is superior when watching HD. The SD on the 811 is poor. I do see a difference between the 522 and the Dtivo. The 522 is better.

So for SD: the 522 is the best quality, the Dtivo is second and the 811 is last.

But i love the HD on the 811.

#7 OFFLINE   Spliff

Spliff

    New Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 9 posts
Joined: Sep 20, 2005

Posted 26 September 2005 - 02:55 PM

Anyone else willing to chime in? Preferably someone whos had both E* and D*?

#8 OFFLINE   Michael P

Michael P

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,938 posts
Joined: Oct 27, 2004

Posted 26 September 2005 - 03:20 PM

Dish and Directv compress the picture in different ways. Plus, they also prioritize channels differently. So, a definitive answer to the compression who is better question cannot be really answered easily. Standard definition compression is going to be a perference of the viewer as to which one compresses less. If your favorite channels have more priority on one vs the other you are going to favor the one that prioritizes your channels.

In HD, Dish does compress a lot less. Dish has some current technology that is better than DIRECTV for HD, mainly 8PSK and more satellites.

8PSK is not compression, per se, but it is a different way of modulating digital data so that they get more out of the same transponder. Digital compression (stat muxes) use mathematical models to save space. For example if there is little movement in the background of a picture, the data that makes up the backgrond does not have to be sent as often as foreground images that move faster than the background. Fast-moving video will require more "space" than "static" images. If they crank up the compression static images look great until something fast-moving comes into the picture. That is where you will see attifacts.
An E* subscriber continuously since February 1997.

#9 OFFLINE   Spliff

Spliff

    New Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 9 posts
Joined: Sep 20, 2005

Posted 26 September 2005 - 03:23 PM

The main reason I'm asking this is because I just got Dish and the quality is great on some channels, and not so great on others. I don't want to recommend Dish to others if D* has better quality in general.

#10 OFFLINE   Jason Nipp

Jason Nipp

    Analog Geek in a Digital World

  • Super Moderators
  • 10,041 posts
  • LocationNorthern Illinois
Joined: Jun 10, 2004

Posted 26 September 2005 - 04:07 PM

Anyone else willing to chime in? Preferably someone whos had both E* and D*?

I have agree with Mike below.

I had a Hughes receiver many years back, and comparing it to what I replaced it with when I went to E*, which was the 3900, I believe that they were fairly equal. Yes, at the time I was able to run both on the same 32" Panny. The 811 does do HD very well, but I agree my 522 has much better SD PQ.

In my opinion, I think PQ can be dependant on the source and how much compression the transmission receives prior to and during the up-link.

Spiff you mentioned something about what if they put the box on a larger display. Well this could have made compression more noticeable. I have seen early adoptors of projection bigscreens explain the bad pictures associated with the content. I have to say I have seen some really disgusting PQ on certain channels. There are times when my picture looks grainy and show a screen door effect. But there's also times when I still say wow, cool.

#11 OFFLINE   Chris Walker

Chris Walker

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 232 posts
Joined: May 19, 2004

Posted 26 September 2005 - 04:48 PM

From having both services recently, in general E* has noticeably better standard PQ than D* does. This of course is subject to change at any time though.

#12 OFFLINE   koji68

koji68

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 623 posts
Joined: Jun 21, 2004

Posted 26 September 2005 - 05:03 PM

Besides trying to compare the different compression on different channels, DirecTV vs Dish, and HD vs non-HD... you also have to compare the hardware receiver models and different models of TV.


I just saw Mark Cuban speaking to a TV manufacturers group and he was putting the blame squarely on the providers, cable and satelite, for PQ problems. He said that most HD TVs are very under-utilized because of the heavy compression that the providers use.

I have E* and my brother in law has D*. E* HD is better, SD is about the same with some channels better in one or the other. PPV been the best channels for PQ in SD and the locals the worst.

#13 OFFLINE   dfergie

dfergie

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,166 posts
Joined: Feb 27, 2003

Posted 26 September 2005 - 09:05 PM

I have both...and will keep both...on SD some channels on one provider are better than others... HD... E* is a lot better although the Espn football game last night looked better on D* than it has in awhile...(still not as sharp as E* but, not bad)

#14 OFFLINE   SummitAdvantageRetailer

SummitAdvantageRetailer

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 422 posts
Joined: Feb 20, 2005

Posted 27 September 2005 - 12:05 AM

Misleading title. I thought you had some screen shot comparisons or some calibrated reviews of some sort. The truth is that depending on the size of your TV, one will show better picture than the other. Also, some viewers like sharp details while others like a smooth moving (film-like) picture. All a matter of preference until you get to HD. You don't want to get D* for HD picture quality. You may be disappointed by the compression.




Protected By... spam firewall...And...