Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

DTV Won't Deal on H10-250, What Will Happen With New Lease Plan


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
14 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   mya23rd

mya23rd

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 107 posts
Joined: Dec 10, 2005

Posted 20 January 2006 - 02:35 PM

I am one of those people who has been trying to get an HD Tivo at a good deal. I have been trying since October, ever since I heard about some people getting them for around 200 bucks after sme credits and other stuff. I have read almost every post I could find on this issue. And it seems like some people were able to get the deal, while many others like me were unable to. I know all the different tactics which I have tried but it seems like it depends on the retention rep you speak to. I though for a while that they were offering good deals way back and have pretty much stopped, but every now and then I read about someone else getting a good deal. I think that one of the major reasons I am not getting the deal is because I have been a customer for less then a year, actually Jan 22nd will be 1 year exactly. Most of the people who have been getting the deals seem to be DTV customers for many years. However, until recently my average monthly bill was around 180 bucks. Had total choice premiere, NBA League Pass, MLB Extra Innings, and watched a lot of PPV movies and I never missed a payment. I figured this would work in my favor but it doesn’t seem to matter. In response I severely reduced my programming moving down to Total Choice Plus with HBO, and not renewing my NBA League Pass.

I don’t understand why they won’t give me the deal. They keep offering me the HD Tivo for 549 bucks with a hundred dollar rebate and some other credits but basically 400-450 bucks out of my pocket. I am now wondering what will happen with this new lease program that DTV is moving to? Does everyone think that they will drop the price? Will they offer it for something more reasonable like 200 bucks or 300 bucks with a rebate or soething. This is sort of what Dish Network does with their HD DVR 942 and will be doing with the upcoming 622, it basically cost about 300 bucks to lease it. Will DTV do something similar, I know there was some info about their new plan on another post but I am wondering whats gonna happen with this HD Tivo?

Finally, I don’t understand why they don’t give me some deal. I’m getting so tired of the bs I get everytime I call from the retention reps. They keep pushing that bull about offering 1,500 HD channels which is so misleading and they tell me that in the long run cable will cost me more. That is just bs, sure there is a monthly fee of about 15 bucks for the cable HD DVR but that’s a huge difference than 400 bucks all upfront. I don’t understand why the general price of the HD Tivo is so high. I understand they have to recoup some costs but aren’t they making their offering very uncompetitive, especially compared to cable. Why not hold on to customers, instead of driving them away, especially since this HD Tivo will be obsolete in the near future. Plus they want a two year commitment, give me a break!!!!

...Ads Help To Support This Site...

#2 OFFLINE   JLucPicard

JLucPicard

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 3,983 posts
Joined: Apr 26, 2004

Posted 20 January 2006 - 03:09 PM

You're asking this of a lot of people who paid a grand for their HR10-250's and have been with DirecTv for years - some over ten years. Probably won't get a lot of sympathy.

I don't know the situations of any of the people who may have recently gotten better deals on the HD TiVo. I don't know if they tend to be just average joes, or have had some real problems that D* may be trying to appease. There was a time that D* was running a deal on these. I haven't been a fan of some of these people who lately have been bragging up the deals they've gotten - I think it can set an unrealistic expectation for some people and set them up for disappointment when they can't get similar deals.

I don't know how the lease deal will affect the HR10-250's. Their fee schedule that was posted in another thread only refers to "HD DVR" - whether that covers the HR10-250 and/or the new HR20, I don't know. There's a chance, I suppose, that they won't even lease the HR10-250's and may only lease the HR20's for their "HD DVR" when they become available.

"I don’t understand why the general price of the HD Tivo is so high." - Again, to a lot of people what they are currently offering is not such a bad deal compared to what we paid for them.

I've been with D* since 1994. I've subscribed to Sunday Ticket from the beginning, but no other sports subscriptions. My programming package has been at a minimum the Total Choice with locals (40 to 50 bucks or whatever) as well as the additional regional sports add-on package since the beginning and have had premium channels come and go. Paid bills on time, etc. Paid $1000 for my first HD TiVo. Picked up a second for $299 back in August when they were running that special. I don't mind getting a deal when I can, but I do not go to the "special favors" well very often. I take advantage of deals when they are offered and when it suits me, but I don't raise heck trying to get something that is not being offered. It's worked out OK for me over the years.

Best of luck getting what you can, but for me, it's ultimately D* who decides what they want to sell and for how much, then I have to decide if I want it or not.

#3 OFFLINE   CCarncross

CCarncross

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 7,058 posts
  • LocationJackson
Joined: Jul 19, 2005

Posted 20 January 2006 - 04:40 PM

You want some cheese and crackers with that?

:D

#4 OFFLINE   jcricket

jcricket

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 211 posts
Joined: Nov 21, 2005

Posted 20 January 2006 - 06:27 PM

I don’t understand why they won’t give me the deal. They keep offering me the HD Tivo for 549 bucks with a hundred dollar rebate and some other credits but basically 400-450 bucks out of my pocket. I am now wondering what will happen with this new lease program that DTV is moving to? Does everyone think that they will drop the price? Will they offer it for something more reasonable like 200 bucks or 300 bucks with a rebate or soething. This is sort of what Dish Network does with their HD DVR 942 and will be doing with the upcoming 622, it basically cost about 300 bucks to lease it. Will DTV do something similar, I know there was some info about their new plan on another post but I am wondering whats gonna happen with this HD Tivo?

If you can stand it, just wait. Now is a bad time to plunk down a lot of money for equipment with D*, IMHO. Here's my thinkingL

1) The HDTivo is an orphaned product.
2) A Series 3 standalone Tivo may/not come out in the next year.
3) D* is releasing their own HD DVR (the HR20) in the next 6 months.
4) D* is also going to (as you said) a lease-only model, which will likely change any up-front prices for equipment if you are an existing subscriber.
5) There may/not be a Comcast box with Tivo software (a la the HR10)

These changes will significantly alter the DVR landscape (both cost and consumer choice-wise). If the HR10-250 was "free" or really cheap (<$100-200 up-front), I'd say go for it. Otherwise, wait.

Note: I have an HR10-250, but I wouldn't buy another one, even for $200, because of the following:

A) D* is going to MPG4 for satellite HD locals and any new national HD channels.
B) The OTA tuner in the HR10 is crappy compared to most current OTA ATSC tuners. This makes my marginal OTA situation untenable for all but the major 4 channels.
C) The HR10-250 is very slow and (imho) poorly built (too many people report issues with theirs, makes me nervous any time I see a glitch). Hopefully the Series 3, HR20 and Comcast HD "Tivo" will be built on faster/more capable hardware.
D) Installing an OTA antenna is not an easy/free proposition.

So, if you can stand it, just hold off. Don't plunk down your money right now. I enjoy using a DVR for OTA HD broadcasts, but I think I could have waited until things shook out a bit and cable + satellite providers were each offering better than the current "beta" products.

#5 OFFLINE   jcricket

jcricket

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 211 posts
Joined: Nov 21, 2005

Posted 20 January 2006 - 06:31 PM

I wanted to add - If D* goes to lease only and keeps charging existing customers high up-front prices for new equipment along with lengthy (2-year) contracts, the churn rate will explode.

I, for one, will be glad to look elsewhere (Series 3 or Comcast box) if they try and charge me anything for trading in my HR10 for an HR20.

#6 OFFLINE   Proc

Proc

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 307 posts
Joined: Jan 19, 2006

Posted 20 January 2006 - 06:34 PM

jcricket...great advice.

#7 OFFLINE   mya23rd

mya23rd

    Legend

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 107 posts
Joined: Dec 10, 2005

Posted 20 January 2006 - 07:01 PM

You're asking this of a lot of people who paid a grand for their HR10-250's and have been with DirecTv for years - some over ten years. Probably won't get a lot of sympathy.

I don't know the situations of any of the people who may have recently gotten better deals on the HD TiVo. I don't know if they tend to be just average joes, or have had some real problems that D* may be trying to appease. There was a time that D* was running a deal on these. I haven't been a fan of some of these people who lately have been bragging up the deals they've gotten - I think it can set an unrealistic expectation for some people and set them up for disappointment when they can't get similar deals.

I don't know how the lease deal will affect the HR10-250's. Their fee schedule that was posted in another thread only refers to "HD DVR" - whether that covers the HR10-250 and/or the new HR20, I don't know. There's a chance, I suppose, that they won't even lease the HR10-250's and may only lease the HR20's for their "HD DVR" when they become available.

"I don’t understand why the general price of the HD Tivo is so high." - Again, to a lot of people what they are currently offering is not such a bad deal compared to what we paid for them.

I've been with D* since 1994. I've subscribed to Sunday Ticket from the beginning, but no other sports subscriptions. My programming package has been at a minimum the Total Choice with locals (40 to 50 bucks or whatever) as well as the additional regional sports add-on package since the beginning and have had premium channels come and go. Paid bills on time, etc. Paid $1000 for my first HD TiVo. Picked up a second for $299 back in August when they were running that special. I don't mind getting a deal when I can, but I do not go to the "special favors" well very often. I take advantage of deals when they are offered and when it suits me, but I don't raise heck trying to get something that is not being offered. It's worked out OK for me over the years.

Best of luck getting what you can, but for me, it's ultimately D* who decides what they want to sell and for how much, then I have to decide if I want it or not.



I understand that some people have paid quite a bit of money up to and including a thousand bucks. I'm assuming they could afford them and I simply never could pay that price. Honestly even if I had the money I wouldn't have paid a thousand bucks for it, but thats just my preference. Things have changed a great deal since the box was offered for that much, the box was overpriced then and is over priced now. The box has been out for a few years and if you choose to be an early adopter, you pay the price, just like with everything else. What I'm saying is that now that the box is several years old, is about to become obsolte, and cannot handle the new HD locals, they cannot be asking for this much. I mean do you think people who paid a thousand bucks for it would have done so if they knew it would be obsolete in a few months or if it couldn't pick up certain channels. I doubt it, and this is the case now at the price they are asking for. DTV can't even promise me that I will be upgraded for free which should be the case. I get either that it will cost me 100 or 200 bucks and there may or may not be a rebate.

It's just ridiclous when you say that we have to wait for deals. If you have read any other posts on here you can see that many DTV customers are constantly asking for and rightfully so in my opinion better deals. There's nothing wrong with that especially considering the crap many customers have to put up with. My point, which you obviously didn't get, is that they are not being very practical or competitive at such a high price. Even the DTV execs admitted this fact. I like DTV and want to stay with them but they are making it very difficult asking for so much upfront. It's always fair to negotiate as many others on here have done and hey I don't think there is anything bad about pointing out deals to others. Thats the whole point of this forum. Not everyone on here can afford to pay a thousand bucks for their HD Tivo and we're just trying to help each other out. If someone gets a good deal, I say good for them!!! And if you want to just take what they give you, that's your choice!!!

#8 OFFLINE   mya23rd

mya23rd

    Legend

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 107 posts
Joined: Dec 10, 2005

Posted 20 January 2006 - 07:19 PM

If you can stand it, just wait. Now is a bad time to plunk down a lot of money for equipment with D*, IMHO. Here's my thinkingL

1) The HDTivo is an orphaned product.
2) A Series 3 standalone Tivo may/not come out in the next year.
3) D* is releasing their own HD DVR (the HR20) in the next 6 months.
4) D* is also going to (as you said) a lease-only model, which will likely change any up-front prices for equipment if you are an existing subscriber.
5) There may/not be a Comcast box with Tivo software (a la the HR10)

These changes will significantly alter the DVR landscape (both cost and consumer choice-wise). If the HR10-250 was "free" or really cheap (<$100-200 up-front), I'd say go for it. Otherwise, wait.

Note: I have an HR10-250, but I wouldn't buy another one, even for $200, because of the following:

A) D* is going to MPG4 for satellite HD locals and any new national HD channels.
B) The OTA tuner in the HR10 is crappy compared to most current OTA ATSC tuners. This makes my marginal OTA situation untenable for all but the major 4 channels.
C) The HR10-250 is very slow and (imho) poorly built (too many people report issues with theirs, makes me nervous any time I see a glitch). Hopefully the Series 3, HR20 and Comcast HD "Tivo" will be built on faster/more capable hardware.
D) Installing an OTA antenna is not an easy/free proposition.

So, if you can stand it, just hold off. Don't plunk down your money right now. I enjoy using a DVR for OTA HD broadcasts, but I think I could have waited until things shook out a bit and cable + satellite providers were each offering better than the current "beta" products.


jcricket...


That an insightful and well-informed post. You raise soe very good points that I have been grappling with. Many of the issues with the current HD Tivo box (OTA problems, soon to be obsolete, no mpeg 4 support) are exactly why I think its ridiculous for them to be asking for such a high price at this time. The reason why this has become an issue is because my contract is up in a few days and I figured I would just call DTV, work with them for a decent deal on the HD Tivo and that would be the end of it. But they are unwilling at this time and I have been expressing my frustration.

My options right now are to just do nothing and keep DTV, or go to Dish or Comcast. The really frustrating part is all the uncertainty. A few weeks ago I was under the impression that the HD DVR would be out by March, as DTV has been saying for months, well they said first quarter of 2006 which means by end of March at the latest. To be honest I was skeptical of that especially after all the issues they had with the new DVR Plus box. They now say by the middle of the year but they could just as easily push it back till the end of the year like they saw often do with a press release or something like that. So there's no gaurantee that it will be out anytime soon. I have had an HDTV with no HD programming for a little over a year now and haven't had any HD programming. I've been waiting for a very long time, thought I would have HD by last summer but it just didn't work out. Thats why I'm dreading the idea of waiting another six months or a year.

Some of the issues you mentioned make me wonder if i even want the HD Tivo now. Recently I have been reading about the problems many people have been having with the crappy OTA tuner. Previously I had no idea there were issues with it and I was planning on using it for my locals in HD. I mean I will pay 100-200 bucks for it just for the other Hd channels, but definitely not 400-500 bucks. I am really whining here but I just want me some HDTV. Having a standard Tivo really spoiled me because now I just can't imagine not having it, which is why I haven't gotten the H20 which is very reasonably priced. I'm really leaning towards getting Comcast or just buying an HD receiver and OTA antenna and just getting locals. I don't know.

#9 OFFLINE   Wolffpack

Wolffpack

    Banned User

  • Banned User
  • 4,642 posts
Joined: Jul 29, 2003

Posted 20 January 2006 - 08:42 PM

I wanted to add - If D* goes to lease only and keeps charging existing customers high up-front prices for new equipment along with lengthy (2-year) contracts, the churn rate will explode.

I, for one, will be glad to look elsewhere (Series 3 or Comcast box) if they try and charge me anything for trading in my HR10 for an HR20.

Read through the leasing threads. Word is after 03/01/06 the HR10-250 will cost you a $399 up front charge in addition to the lease charge.

It doesn't seem that any consumer costs will be changing, just who owns the equipment.

#10 OFFLINE   jcricket

jcricket

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 211 posts
Joined: Nov 21, 2005

Posted 21 January 2006 - 12:53 PM

Read through the leasing threads. Word is after 03/01/06 the HR10-250 will cost you a $399 up front charge in addition to the lease charge.

It doesn't seem that any consumer costs will be changing, just who owns the equipment.

Nice. No way the HR10 is worth $399 + a lease fee considering the coming obsolescence and problems with the hardware. Even if HR20 delivers on all its promises, it won't be worth that. WTF is wrong with D*?

Comcast charges $10/month for a DVR with nothing up-front. Combine the D* up-front costs and the $5/month lease fee and it's 6 years before the costs are equal. With the state of DVR technology, there will probably be 3 new generations (read: big leaps in performance/features) of HD DVRs released in the next 6 years, so if you keep paying "up-front" fees every 2 years, your up-front payment makes D* 3x as expensive as cable if you amortize the cost.

Is D* actually trying to send people away? Why would anyone sign up with them? More importantly, why would an existing customer stay unless they can't get Cable.

Again, I paid for my HR10, and I'm not faulting anyone. But if, a year later, D* tries to charge me anything for the HR20 and AT9 dish up-front, I'll just say no thanks and wait for a better cable box to come along. Or, if I have to buy something on my own, I'll buy the Series 3. There's no reason to pay D* anything up-front for boxes you don't own and can't hack.

On the other side of this, what I heard from D* at CES is that the HR20 would be "$200 for new customers with a heavy rebate". In other words, the up-front costs will be sub-$100, not the $399 that they plan on charging for the HR10. Hope that rumor is more correct.

#11 OFFLINE   Wolffpack

Wolffpack

    Banned User

  • Banned User
  • 4,642 posts
Joined: Jul 29, 2003

Posted 21 January 2006 - 01:11 PM

Going to the lease program DTV will have to make up for hardware sales somewhere. From what I've read the lease fee will be pretty much the same as the current mirror fee for each receiver. So DTV will have to either charge up front for the equipment or make the lease fee more than the current mirroring fee. I don't think customers are going to buy into an upfront fee to lease equipment.

#12 OFFLINE   harsh

harsh

    Beware the Attack Basset

  • Registered
  • 19,421 posts
  • LocationSalem, OR
Joined: Jun 14, 2003

Posted 21 January 2006 - 01:42 PM

WTF is wrong with D*?

Apparently they have more than a few rather spoiled customers who think that they should get precisely what they want for nothing. There's nothing wrong with wanting to stay in business.

Comcast charges $10/month for a DVR with nothing up-front. Combine the D* up-front costs and the $5/month lease fee and it's 6 years before the costs are equal.

And if they offer the programming that you want with the technology that you want, you should be with Comcast. It really is that simple. If you need more than Comcast offers, then you have a decision/compromise to make.

With the state of DVR technology, there will probably be 3 new generations (read: big leaps in performance/features) of HD DVRs released in the next 6 years, so if you keep paying "up-front" fees every 2 years, your up-front payment makes D* 3x as expensive as cable if you amortize the cost.

I would be interested in your take on what these advancements might be and how they might fit into our daily lives. The number seems awfully arbitrary to me. This also assumes that the current crop of receivers cannot be adapted to these new technologies. As for amortizing the costs, remember that D* has to cover their costs too.

Is D* actually trying to send people away?

No. I don't think they want to cultivate a situation where their customers expect to get everything for nothing. They want to be competitive on a customer by customer basis with the other services available.

Why would anyone sign up with them? More importantly, why would an existing customer stay unless they can't get Cable.

Perhaps, when taken as a whole, D* offers a better balance/compromise of programming and monthly cost than their competitors. Remember that Comcast typically costs upwards of $15 more per month after all of the promotions are over so over the life of an STB, you're probably looking at spending around $360 more on comparable programming. All of the sudden, that $300 up front or so doesn't smell quite so bad.

Again, I paid for my HR10, and I'm not faulting anyone. But if, a year later, D* tries to charge me anything for the HR20 and AT9 dish up-front, I'll just say no thanks and wait for a better cable box to come along. Or, if I have to buy something on my own, I'll buy the Series 3. There's no reason to pay D* anything up-front for boxes you don't own and can't hack.

Do you think that Comcast is going to like you hacking their box and are you 100% confident that TiVo will continue to allow it in the future? Perhaps you should investigate a computer based DVR.

I urge you to look at the bottom line as opposed to cherry picking the pricing structure when deciding who is ripping you off.

#13 OFFLINE   zortapa

zortapa

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 240 posts
Joined: Nov 16, 2005

Posted 21 January 2006 - 02:22 PM

From what I've read, it sounds link D* might swap an HR20 for a subscriber owned HR10-250 once they (the HR20) are released. If this actually comes to pass, it might be worthwhile purchasing the HR10-250 now and then "own" the HR20 after the swap. Of course this does not seem to have been stated officially yet, but it is another piece of the puzzle to consider.
-Eric
------------------
SLS5
HR-22
Onkyo TX702
Toshiba CinemaSeries xxxxx

#14 OFFLINE   JLucPicard

JLucPicard

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 3,983 posts
Joined: Apr 26, 2004

Posted 21 January 2006 - 05:01 PM

They also said they were "swapping" current HD receivers for the H20, but most people said the installers weren't even taking those boxes. If the same holds true for an HR20-for-HR10 swap, I wouldn't mind that at all!

#15 OFFLINE   vlj9r

vlj9r

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 93 posts
Joined: Nov 23, 2005

Posted 24 January 2006 - 05:43 AM

If you really want an HD DVR and you have a decent cable company do what I did. I called DTV and asked them for a deal, which they said they could not do. So I suspended my account for 6 months due to the high upfront cost of their HD DVR plus they still don't have the mpeg4 DVR for my locals.
For no upfront cost, I switched to cable and so far so good. Hopefully, the picture will become clearer with DTV's mpeg4 DVR and Tivo's HD DVR.




Protected By... spam firewall...And...