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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Anyone else have this issue with D*???


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22 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   garyswri

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 01:45 PM

I recently upgraded my sony sathd200 to the d* hr10-250 so that I may record stuff. this has been about 1.5months ago. the installer had to replace my multiswitch in order to add addition outputs for dvr 2 tuner stuff. I have been noticeing some very bad picture quality on mostly SD channels i.e. tnt,cnn,fsn ect. In particular tnt and fsnsw because i watch alot of basketball adn sports in general. I have attach some screen shots of fsnsw game and a high def station ota for comparison.

I am trying to find out if everyone else on D* satellite have this same issue. I have a high def receiver and high def tv and seem to get very good(most of time) high def programming. this only happens on SD programs. Please exam and provide some input before I call D* tech support and complain maybe there is something wrong with the installation.

Attached Thumbnails

  • closeup_SD_FSNSW.JPG
  • distant_SD_FSNSW.JPG
  • HD_WB_ch35_OTA.JPG


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#2 OFFLINE   garyswri

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 08:30 AM

I am really surprised this post has been viewed so many times and knowone here has an opinion. Maybe we are all getting to spoiled to high def pictures that anything less is unwatchable. I truely don't think that these transmissions should be this bad.

Any technical people hear? suggestions on maybe a bad mulitswitch or the receiver bad? What should the first line of troubleshooting be, if any, or should we just accept the fact it would get any better than this?

#3 OFFLINE   News Junky

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 10:13 AM

I'm not an expert in this area but my best guess is you're dealing with an HD/SD compatibility issue. Looking as SD video over an HD system has major bugs and picture quality problems, if I understand it correctly.

#4 OFFLINE   Bobman

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 10:15 AM

I havent had any problems with my picture quality. I dont have HD thru DirecTV but my regular picture is way better than what your showing in that basketball shot and even rivals your HD picture.

#5 OFFLINE   garyswri

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 10:26 AM

Thanks for the input. I have to admit that I just started noticeing the drop off in PQ after I upgraded to a DVR from D*. Previously I had a sony hd200 reciever and don't remember having as bad of PQ as I am having now. Too bad I have already sold my sony or I would switch it back.

I have tried using the HR10-250 output set to 1080i and letting the tv do the conversion but really doesn't matter. Also tried setting tv user menu video setting to force 4:3 format and set hr10 to 480i output, but this shift sidebars and picture is not centered correctly.

Thinking maybe troubleshooting the multiswitch next but changing around some outputs that are directed to other dvr's in house to direct them to my HD dvr.

Can't believe the PQ should be this bad.

#6 OFFLINE   greywolf

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 10:50 AM

For one thing, you are displaying paused shots. Pausing really hurts the image quality of SD programming. I always use 480i out for 480i programming. It helps to use side panels for 4:3 programming too. Every conversion reduces quality.

#7 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 10:53 AM

Unless you are actually getting picture breakup, bad blocking like at the onset of rainfade right b4 you lose the signal altogether, thats all the better it will be right now...You need to remember its digital, its either all there or it isnt, there is no better quality due to a possible faulty multiswitch, if the multiswitch goes bad you get NO PICTURE, or bad break up...SD programming looks worse as you go up in screen size, and also seems to look worse on HD capable displays...Now compare it to an HD channel, SD PQ doesnt stand a chance....so yes you've also gotten spoiled by HD goodness..

;)

#8 OFFLINE   durl

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 11:45 AM

I also went from a Sony HD-200 to the HR10-250 a short while ago. In my case, the SD picture is BETTER with the HR10. It's probably because I now set the output to 480i instead of the 480p I used on the Sony unit.

#9 OFFLINE   garyswri

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 01:19 PM

I also went from a Sony HD-200 to the HR10-250 a short while ago. In my case, the SD picture is BETTER with the HR10. It's probably because I now set the output to 480i instead of the 480p I used on the Sony unit.



So durl, what kind of tv are you using with the hr10-250. I have a sony kf60xbr800 and the tv user menu has some video options like:

4:3 default=wide zoom,full,normal and off.
It also has another setting if you have default set to anything other than off. can't remember exactly but tried last night during the spurs game coming in on ota local digital channel to set the 4:3 to off but the picture got squeezed horizontally and the grey bars were differant size on left and right and shifted off center. All this was with the HR10 set to output 480i.

Also on my sony sathd200 I left my output set to autodvi all the time and seem to look good on all channels.

#10 OFFLINE   durl

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 08:41 AM

I'm a little behind in the TV dept. I have a KP series 53" rear-projection (4:3).

I don't believe I could give you very good advice on TV settings since I don't have a widescreen setup. Personally, I don't really like to see a stretched picture, so I would probably set my 4:3 programs to show up normally. But again, that's just my personal preference.

#11 OFFLINE   garyswri

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Posted 01 February 2006 - 10:35 AM

I finally broke down and called D* tech dept and explained my fuzzy picture problem. First line of tech support was as you would expect from these guys-not a clue what is wrong with my picture and there last comment before sending to advanced tech support(ha ha) was my cable HDMI/DVI was an issue because my tv does not have a hdmi connection(so why do they include both kinds of cables). Transfer to advanced so they can correct this issue.

Advance tech support basically went through same as previous tech and asked some pretty dumb questions as usual. then I suggested they send me a replacement unit to which they replied we need to request a senior tech come to my house and determine problem.

2 days later my appt was afternoon(1-5pm) timeframe. Like most of us I have to take off work and wait for someone to conviently come when they get ready. Did not hear from tech until 4:30pm at which time he asked some questions over phone(seem like he was trying to avoid coming). He said he was about 1.5hrs from completing an install. I said he has to come today, I would not take off again. He showed up 5:30.

He came with a new dvi cable-which he never used. Basically he did nothing more than what I could do with remote control-check settings etc. He fooled around for almost 1hr with settings and also tried component cables instead of DVI and had same results.

He then in a round about way said there was nothing he could do and proceded to get me to sign off on his visit--excuse me, but no results????

He then told me I could call D* and request another unit- I said I thought that is your job. He reluctantly asked for a phone and called to request replacement.


I am now waiting on unit from Fedex.

I will update on if new unit does any better or I dump this receiver for my old sony. Should have by end of week.:mad:

#12 OFFLINE   captainvideo

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 10:47 PM

I deactivated a Sony T60 for a DTV10-250. On the side of the box of the new receiver it says, "You'll never watch TV the same way again!" It's true, the picture is much worse in SD and I can no longer transmit the video and sound into my office from the living room (eventually, I'll figure that out and hook up my transmitter correctly). Plus, I signed a two year contract and now learn the new 5lnb antenna doesn't work with the receiver. I think what you are experiencing is a "normal" screw job, as I am.

#13 OFFLINE   JLucPicard

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 11:18 PM

captainvideo,

I'm pretty sure that you are able to receive all the same MPEG2 programming on the HR10-250 using the AT9 (5 lnb) dish that you can with the 3 lnb dish. What the HR10-250 will not pick up is the MPEG4 signal. If your impression was that the HR10-250 could pick up MPEG4, I'm not sure where you got that info from. All the posts I've read here that address the subject seemed clear to me that the HR10-250 will still work with the AT9 dish, but NOT pick up the MPEG4 signals.

#14 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 11:19 PM

captain, the new 5lnb dish will work with any functioning D* receiver....unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean....

#15 OFFLINE   garyswri

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 02:25 PM

I finally broke down and called D* tech dept and explained my fuzzy picture problem. First line of tech support was as you would expect from these guys-not a clue what is wrong with my picture and there last comment before sending to advanced tech support(ha ha) was my cable HDMI/DVI was an issue because my tv does not have a hdmi connection(so why do they include both kinds of cables). Transfer to advanced so they can correct this issue.

Advance tech support basically went through same as previous tech and asked some pretty dumb questions as usual. then I suggested they send me a replacement unit to which they replied we need to request a senior tech come to my house and determine problem.

2 days later my appt was afternoon(1-5pm) timeframe. Like most of us I have to take off work and wait for someone to conviently come when they get ready. Did not hear from tech until 4:30pm at which time he asked some questions over phone(seem like he was trying to avoid coming). He said he was about 1.5hrs from completing an install. I said he has to come today, I would not take off again. He showed up 5:30.

He came with a new dvi cable-which he never used. Basically he did nothing more than what I could do with remote control-check settings etc. He fooled around for almost 1hr with settings and also tried component cables instead of DVI and had same results.

He then in a round about way said there was nothing he could do and proceded to get me to sign off on his visit--excuse me, but no results????

He then told me I could call D* and request another unit- I said I thought that is your job. He reluctantly asked for a phone and called to request replacement.


I am now waiting on unit from Fedex.

I will update on if new unit does any better or I dump this receiver for my old sony. Should have by end of week.:mad:


Update: Received new HR10-250 (not refurb like I thought) and have changed out with previous receiver. Results exactly the same.

I am now convinced that bad PQ is a result of D* equipment. I am now going to purchase and reinstall a Sony SatHD300 receiver and have both on same TV so I can compare apples to apples, then if as I expect the sony is better PQ then I am going to try and send the 250 back and get out of contract. we'll see.

#16 OFFLINE   msmith

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 03:17 PM

Update: Received new HR10-250 (not refurb like I thought) and have changed out with previous receiver. Results exactly the same.

I am now convinced that bad PQ is a result of D* equipment. I am now going to purchase and reinstall a Sony SatHD300 receiver and have both on same TV so I can compare apples to apples, then if as I expect the sony is better PQ then I am going to try and send the 250 back and get out of contract. we'll see.


Make sure that you're doing apples to apples. Same connection, same cable, same channel.

I went from a Sony HD200 to the HR10-250 and have had no trouble. My TV is a Sony 34KVXBR800. I'm using component cables, as the color seems better to me than DVI/HDMI.

#17 OFFLINE   durl

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 09:10 AM

I doubt the problem is inherent with the equipment. Lots of us have had no problems with the HR10-250. Like msmith, I upgraded from the HD-200 and the SD picture quality is better with the HR10-250.

Since my TV only displays 480i, 480p and 1080i, I set the HR10-250 to output only 480i and 1080i. When I first started using the HR, I tried watching SD programs output at the 480p setting, but the picture was nowhere near as sharp as the 480i. When I watch HD programming, I flip the output to 1080i, for everything else I just do 480i. I don't have the TV do any conversion; just display what the box is sending out. I've been extremely impressed with the SD picture.

#18 OFFLINE   garyswri

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 10:55 AM

Make sure that you're doing apples to apples. Same connection, same cable, same channel.

I went from a Sony HD200 to the HR10-250 and have had no trouble. My TV is a Sony 34KVXBR800. I'm using component cables, as the color seems better to me than DVI/HDMI.


msmith and durl, your input has been very informative. From what I have deducted so far I can see one big difference from your setup(equipment) and mine and that is the difference in screen size and type. I am looking at a 60" widescreen where yours are 53"and 34". this can be a big difference in that I am seeing more distortion at larger screen size than on smaller screen. I have just received the sony hd300 and will experiment over next few days and will post my results here.

Stay tuned!!

#19 OFFLINE   Rusty White

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Posted 14 February 2006 - 11:31 AM

I was glad to find this thread. I have noticed a BIG image quality reduction in D* broadcasts beginning a few months ago.

I don't want to over complicate this post with dish/receiver/wiring/settings/etc. I want to communicate I am seeing changes (for the worse) in D* images.

I thought it was just the scalar processor of the Sony KLV S32A10 I purchased in December. But I was watching a broadcast on my Pioneer Elite PRO 98 and noticed the same problems. Nothing has changed on the setup of the Pioneer except the image quality I am receiving.

The problem is most noticeable in movies filmed in low light conditions. Any object consuming a large portion of the screen (background, etc) which contains minor color variations is not accurate. For example, if a background contained an object with colors ranging from dark brown to black (let's say 10 shades of brown) only half the shades are shown. The gradual color change is lost.

It also happens a lot on basketball courts, which are largely the same color. However, due to lighting conditions, there are minor color variations.

Has D* changed their image compression algorithm recently?

#20 OFFLINE   newsposter

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Posted 14 February 2006 - 12:31 PM

I also went from a Sony HD-200 to the HR10-250 a short while ago. In my case, the SD picture is BETTER with the HR10. It's probably because I now set the output to 480i instead of the 480p I used on the Sony unit.


That's very interesting. my HDtivo standard def pic looks waaay better on 1080 vs 480. To the point of i can tell if i forget when i leave for work that i kicked to 480 to burn dvds. Maybe it's because I have 57 in hitachi crt rptv that handles SD better?




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