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25 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 04:36 PM

There is no real time encoders in Dish Receivers. MPEG-2 and and MPEG-4 is means to take video and reduce it into a compressed format. You can then take your MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 and place it on a transport mechansim like IP. I don't see why any one would encapsulate MPEG-2 using MPEG-4. Both are designed to compress video for delivery accross a number of different medias. They are two solutions to the same problem.

So to answer your question. Is Mpeg programming recorded or packaged in mpeg4 before transmission. The answer is "That is the plan" and the direction Dish is moving towards. However, the they are not seeing the desired compression wins with current MPEG4 encoders today so this move will be slowly.

As to encapsulating MPEG-2 into mpeg-4 to get better compression. The only way I could see this occuring is to decompression the MPEG-2 stream and feed it into MPEG-4. I doubt anyone is doing this and I really dont see any benefit doing it this way.
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#22 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 04:39 PM

I'm not a digital video expert, so somebody correct me if I'm wrong here... I don't believe that there is any way to "encapsulate" MPEG2 within MPEG4; they are two different compression schemes. Any transcoding process that I've seen has first decoded the MPEG2 to raw uncompressed video and then reencoded it as MPEG4. On the same note, I don't know of any way to convert MPEG4 to MPEG2 without uncompressing the video and recompressing.


This is how I understand it and my understanding is that Dish takes the stream coming in from the Sat and lays it onto the disk. Is it in pure MPEG2, I doubt it and we are starting to wonder into Hack talk so lets leave it as that.
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#23 OFFLINE   LtMunst

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 04:52 PM

So if it's currently in mpeg2 on the HD it'll still be in mpeg2 on the HD when we view, just mpeg4 during transmission to save space? does that make sense at all?


The receivers do not process the stream at all prior to recording to HD. If the stream comes MPEG2, it is recorded MPEG2. If it's MPEG4, it's recorded MPEG4.

#24 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 05:38 PM

a friend I have at Dish told me today that from what he's been told at work there is no record time difference for mpeg2 and 4, as the compression is for transmission, not for storage.

The rumor around the water cooler is incorrect.

so his usderstanding is that we would see no difference in space needed for what we record.

That may well be the case if MPEG4 doesn't currently yield any appreciable savings. What gets recorded is a video stream; regardless of the transport protocol. In fact, all programming you watch on a Dish DVR has already been recorded and is playing off of the hard drive!

Sending a JPEG file via FTP doesn't make it an FTP file. I would ask that nobody bring up the MPEG2 wrapper issue again as it only creates an issue where one doesn't exist.

they are looking to make VOD capable of being disabled since so many requests have come in for that :)

This would be a very popular option indeed. Hopefully this has more credibility than the other rumor. Next project: being able to transcode existing recordings to full MPEG4 compression (maybe if we say it enough, it will sink in).

#25 OFFLINE   Rogueone

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 11:28 PM

the point of this transcode to mpeg4 is for space savings?

so, whether or not there is a space benefit to mpeg4 currently is more a product of the compression algerythms needing some work to become more efficient? that makes sense if i think of if the way video drivers make a video card faster by becoming more efficient in their handling of graphics data :)

regardless of how it all works, 30 hours is better than 23 or so hours :)
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#26 OFFLINE   spaceopera

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 04:23 AM

of course if they still have not fixed the fragmenation problem then we will have less space. Ps. if dish is listening I DON"T want VOD give me back my disk space.

-Gene




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