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Guest Message by DevFuse

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My 622 Ordeal!


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47 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   Bretts

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 12:52 AM

FYI
All new Dish Model's will have the "Dish Comm" feature that will allow one receiver to be connected to the phone and all other will communicate with the other receivers through the electrical outlets just like phonex / rca modems.
You will have to have the 211, 411, 222 or 622 model's for this feature to work. The 222 is the hd / sd two tuner, non-dvr model.
I'm not sure / or if sd 311 will have this feature. I'm sure the new sd dvr's (622) will end up with this option.

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#27 OFFLINE   John Ashman

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 02:14 AM

I'm starting to get annoyed just reading it (never mind that it took three different registration pages to get a letter/number string that was sufficiently legible).

I don't a home telephone. I use a cell phone. So I'm going to get charged $6 because I'm smart enough to use my cell phone instead of paying for a line? I want to get a receiver, not be dictated to how I live my life. What's wrong with these people?

And, am I understanding that new customer buy the gear and current paying customers only lease it? Why are cell phone companies smart enough to treat their existing customers equal to a new one? If I sign up for a year's contract (or whatever), why the heck can't I get an equal deal? Furthermore, why am I not receiving some "new gear credit" for all the time I've been a subscriber, making Charlie a big fat paycheck?

I called up to ask about the 622 and I got the worst quizzing of my life, wanting to know every detail when I was really trying to find out what the difference between a new subscriber and an old one is. These guys need to change their attitude and make sure the receiver can call up via the internet as well. Why should I pay because it can only use an archaic communication system? What's next, a fee for not being hooked up to a telegraph?

#28 OFFLINE   Larry Kenney

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 04:04 AM

I presently have the 811 and a 501 DVR... both leased. Today I called and upgraded to the HDBronze package with locals and I have a ViP622 DVR scheduled for installation on February 25th. That was the earliest install date available as of 9:30 am PST. After the 622 is installed I'll receive shipping cartons to return the 811 and 501. They charged my credit card $299.99 today for the 622.

The CSR told me that my total monthly cost would be $59.95 plus tax. I have the phone line to plug in, so that fee is not included.

I'm really looking forward to being able to record HD starting the 25th! I'll be watching for reports from new 622 users. Hopefully they'll all be good news.

Larry
SF

#29 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 09:30 AM

The phone line thing is becoming less about the PPVs and more about making sure people aren't stealing. The same reason why all the CDs and DVDs come in crazy protective cases and/or have those magnetic thingies inside that set off alarms at stores if you try to steal them... and clothes sometimes have those crazy clamps on them at more expensive stores.

If people didn't steal stuff, we wouldn't have to pay for the security measures. If people didn't break into our homes, we wouldn't have to lock the doors and windows and buy alarm systems.

Unfortunately, the phone line connection to Dish receivers is one of the prices we all get to "pay" for all the dishonest people out there who like to steal stuff.

#30 OFFLINE   John Ashman

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 07:44 PM

The difference here is that Dish isn't absorbing the cost, they're passing it on to, no *forcing it* on innocent people. Why should I have to get a phone line if I don't need one? If it's a big deal, they should come out and look at it, I can prove I have no phone. On the other hand, for $6, I could "steal" Dish by slaving it from someone else. I don't get it. If it were a scam, I'd be all too happy to pay $6 to get $50-$100 worth of service. I don't see how this is doing anything but screwing over honest people.

Hell, I just paid for internet access when I could just as easily rip off my neighbor's internet for free.

#31 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 08:10 PM

The difference here is that Dish isn't absorbing the cost, they're passing it on to, no *forcing it* on innocent people. Why should I have to get a phone line if I don't need one? If it's a big deal, they should come out and look at it, I can prove I have no phone. On the other hand, for $6, I could "steal" Dish by slaving it from someone else. I don't get it. If it were a scam, I'd be all too happy to pay $6 to get $50-$100 worth of service. I don't see how this is doing anything but screwing over honest people.

Hell, I just paid for internet access when I could just as easily rip off my neighbor's internet for free.


I don't understand what you are saying. It sounds like you are saying you are tempted to steal it?

There are lots worse things in life that we are forced to do... paying taxes for things we don't use, car insurance even if we don't have a wreck for 10+ years, that the need to connect a phone line to my Dish receivers for my luxury entertainment non-required TV just doesn't bother me that much.

#32 OFFLINE   John Ashman

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 08:41 PM

Okay, here's the deal. I am about to pay about $100/month for Dish service. I will have only *one* receiver. What I am understanding is that if I don't have the phone line hooked up, I *might* "steal" service. However, that could only happen if I have two receivers and am setting up another one for a friend or something as a "slave" off my bill. So, explain to me, if I have only one, how could I *possibly* steal from the company?

#33 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 09:08 PM

Okay, here's the deal. I am about to pay about $100/month for Dish service. I will have only *one* receiver. What I am understanding is that if I don't have the phone line hooked up, I *might* "steal" service. However, that could only happen if I have two receivers and am setting up another one for a friend or something as a "slave" off my bill. So, explain to me, if I have only one, how could I *possibly* steal from the company?


In your case, with one receiver only... I don't think they would suspect you of stealing.

However, it gets to be very nebulous at best if they tried to have a rule about connecting phone lines that excludes customers in some cases but not others... so they make a rule and try to enforce it as best they can. In the case of the dual tuner receivers they have the $5 fee for the second tuner if no phone line is connected.

Personally, I don't like the no phone line fee... and I've yet to hear how that plays with the audit team. On one hand the contract says "you must connect to a phone line" but on the other hand it says "$5 if you don't".

#34 OFFLINE   John Ashman

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 09:18 PM

The other possibility is that their research shows that people don't buy movies or extras if they're not hooked up. So it's like having a fine for not doing extra business. Is this a possibility? I just want a better explanation. I think that's not too much to ask.

#35 OFFLINE   normang

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 10:15 PM

The other possibility is that their research shows that people don't buy movies or extras if they're not hooked up. So it's like having a fine for not doing extra business. Is this a possibility? I just want a better explanation. I think that's not too much to ask.


The issue as I see it is that the phone line is a anti-theft device, over the past few years I've been with Dish, I've heard about, but never directly experienced, people who bought used recievers, activated them and got the shock of their lives with their first bill for perhaps hundreds of dollars in unpaid PPV movies that were stored in the receiver's memory or smart card because no phone line was attached.

While you or I may never consider this, Dish is attempting to alleviate that kind of deception, while some may just pay the fee and rip off PPV Movies or events, (some boxing matches are what, $50?) and then sell the reciever to some other poor person that gets thwacked when they activate it and connect a phone line because they want to be honest or were told to do so either in the manual or by an installer..

I am not sure whether these stories are fact, or if people got refunded when they can prove that they never watched anything that was on the reciever. But its possible.

I believe there are devices that would allow you to connect your receiver to a cell phone, which might be enough to get past the occasional reciever check.
Norm


#36 OFFLINE   John Ashman

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 01:25 AM

Well, I know you can PPV programs by accident that way. I had my kids PPV a few movies because they had no clue what they were doing. I got called in and they were like "I can't get this &%$ thing to work!" and I though "oh, crap, I just got hit with a bunch of PPV charges. The CSR person says "well, hook up the receiver to a phone, we'll look at it and we *might* be able to get them taken off" and I said "well, if you don't *know* what accidentally got PPVed, then you can't obviously charge me!" And she said "well, technically, that's true....." And so I just never hooked it up again. It ended up being deactivated and tossed eventually. But that's just a design stupidity. The same request to activate a PPV should also automatically charge you. I mean, I might get a land line for this, but hell, why can't they make the thing IP addressable and I'll put it on my network. No fuss, no muss. No stupid $5 charge. I just don't want to pay extra because their system needs a phone. I can see not getting full capability without it, but to CHARGE someone for it is just rude.

#37 OFFLINE   normang

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 08:06 AM

The same request to activate a PPV should also automatically charge you. I mean, I might get a land line for this, but hell, why can't they make the thing IP addressable and I'll put it on my network. No fuss, no muss. No stupid $5 charge. I just don't want to pay extra because their system needs a phone. I can see not getting full capability without it, but to CHARGE someone for it is just rude.


If all recievers had an ethernet port, if everyone that would ever buy a reciever would connect it to a network, if everyone had always on internet access, than you could have another means for a reciever to communicate with Dish, however at this moment in time, the most common means of connecting these devices is a phone line.

While the number of people that are using cell phones as a primary phone is increasing, its still a very small number I suspect and even smaller when it comes to those that own Sat receivers.

You may consider it rude, but put your business hat on, do you want to lose thousands (if not more) a month in revenue merely because you cannot make sure that PPV charges cannot be collected? The phone line is that mechanism that allows Dish to collect the PPV charges and also allows Dish Home to provide some customer service features, even if you don't use them.
Norm


#38 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 09:11 AM

Well, I know you can PPV programs by accident that way. I had my kids PPV a few movies because they had no clue what they were doing. I got called in and they were like "I can't get this &%$ thing to work!" and I though "oh, crap, I just got hit with a bunch of PPV charges. The CSR person says "well, hook up the receiver to a phone, we'll look at it and we *might* be able to get them taken off" and I said "well, if you don't *know* what accidentally got PPVed, then you can't obviously charge me!" And she said "well, technically, that's true....." And so I just never hooked it up again. It ended up being deactivated and tossed eventually. But that's just a design stupidity. The same request to activate a PPV should also automatically charge you. I mean, I might get a land line for this, but hell, why can't they make the thing IP addressable and I'll put it on my network. No fuss, no muss. No stupid $5 charge. I just don't want to pay extra because their system needs a phone. I can see not getting full capability without it, but to CHARGE someone for it is just rude.


Did I misread something or did you just admit to being one of the very customers that Dish is pushing the phone line requirement?

You had a receiver that you "accidentally" bought a bunch of PPV movies on... didn't connect it to a phone line even to see if Dish would believe your "accidental" story... and then just deactivated it and never paid for those PPV movies?

If that is what I read... then I can't have any more sympathy for your side of the argument anymore. You sound like one of the types of customers Dish is trying to protect against.

It is rude not to pay your debts.

#39 OFFLINE   Rogueone

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 10:31 AM

are we sure this $5 fee is for any dual tuner box, and not just when there are more than 1 receiver in the house? John's question about why the need for a phone line if it is the only box is legitimate, and there is no reason Dish can't set his account to not allow ordering of PPV without calling in via phone.

and to Dojoman, it won't do you anygood to buy someone else's old box. NO one can get the old HD packages now. ONLY those who have them currently active can keep them. ANY HD orders after 2/1 have to be the metal packs, so you can't get cheap HD by getting a 942, you can only shaft yourself by paying for channels you can't possibly receive
Regards,

RogueOne
Dish VIP622, 4/4/06; ex 921 owner, 2/04 to 3/06
Dish 501 (soon to upgrade to 722) :D
HD OTA (Washington DC): WRC-DT 1&2, WTTG-DT, WJLA-DT 1&2, WUSA-DT 1&2, WETA-DT 1-4, WBDC-DT 1&2, MHz 1-4, ION 1-7, WDCA-DT, and others i don't care about

#40 OFFLINE   John Ashman

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 09:40 PM

Did I misread something or did you just admit to being one of the very customers that Dish is pushing the phone line requirement?

You had a receiver that you "accidentally" bought a bunch of PPV movies on... didn't connect it to a phone line even to see if Dish would believe your "accidental" story... and then just deactivated it and never paid for those PPV movies?

If that is what I read... then I can't have any more sympathy for your side of the argument anymore. You sound like one of the types of customers Dish is trying to protect against.

It is rude not to pay your debts.


HDMe, you couldn't be more wrong. My stepkids didn't understand how to use the DISH system all that well and they didn't understand what they were doing. I heard a "JT!!!!! HELP!!!" and I went in and my step daughter had been pushing all kinds of buttons in frustration. Apparently she'd gotten in the PPV section (as I often do) and you can't just click out using the number pad (STUPID DESIGN) and so she kept hitting "enter" and other things and accidentally activated a whole series of PPVs in a matter of a few seconds. I immediately called DISH to say she'd accidentally ordered these PPVs, (how many can you watch on one receiver at a time?) and asked if could we do anything about it. The funny thing was that she kept trying to get me to hook up to a telephone line rather than simply answer the question. Finally I realized that they were likely to just screw me and so, yeah, I just said "well, I'm not going to hook up the line".

No, I've never watched a stolen PPV on my DISH. But the CSR wasn't helpful at all about it. In fact, she was acting like it was only a small possibility of being credited, but I should just hook up the line and they'd let me know. So, given that I didn't steal anything, I protected my ass. No "View", no "Pay Per". Do you actually have a problem with that?

Now, admittedly, I'll probably watch PPV HD movies, so a phone line *would* be convenient. And I may rework my DSL to incorporate a phone line or maybe get Vonage or something like it (but probably not), but still, the policy is bad policy as it stands and should be changed. Or at least explained.

#41 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 10:41 PM

HDMe, you couldn't be more wrong. My stepkids didn't understand how to use the DISH system all that well and they didn't understand what they were doing. I heard a "JT!!!!! HELP!!!" and I went in and my step daughter had been pushing all kinds of buttons in frustration. Apparently she'd gotten in the PPV section (as I often do) and you can't just click out using the number pad (STUPID DESIGN) and so she kept hitting "enter" and other things and accidentally activated a whole series of PPVs in a matter of a few seconds. I immediately called DISH to say she'd accidentally ordered these PPVs, (how many can you watch on one receiver at a time?) and asked if could we do anything about it. The funny thing was that she kept trying to get me to hook up to a telephone line rather than simply answer the question. Finally I realized that they were likely to just screw me and so, yeah, I just said "well, I'm not going to hook up the line".


From the CSR perspective, since the Dish system doesn't know what PPVs you have ordered if you order them via the receiver remote... there is no way she could answer your question or help or credit your account. If, as you describe, several PPVs were ordered in a span of a few minutes then it would be obvious to the CSR as soon as the receiver called in and reported them... and you probably would have been able to get a credit.

Not even being willing to connect a phone line probably implies to the CSR that you had something to hide. I'm sure they get a lot of "my kid ordered that and wasn't supposed to" explanations for people who don't want to pay for PPVs ordered. If you were staying in a hotel room, and the same kids played with the hotel remote and ordered a bunch of stuff you wouldn't have had the option of not being plugged in.

I was more or less responding to your decision to not hook up the receiver and let it get deactivated rather than fess up and connect it and negotiate honestly with Dish. There are lots of customers who do that and do watch the movies... and Dish can't tell one from the other since they aren't in your house.

These are ultimately reasons why they have these phone line fees and the audit police calling folks to double-check on things. We all get punished for the misdeeds of a few, even if we aren't doing anything wrong.

#42 OFFLINE   John Ashman

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 12:54 AM

Not even being willing to connect a phone line probably implies to the CSR that you had something to hide. I'm sure they get a lot of "my kid ordered that and wasn't supposed to" explanations for people who don't want to pay for PPVs ordered. If you were staying in a hotel room, and the same kids played with the hotel remote and ordered a bunch of stuff you wouldn't have had the option of not being plugged in.



Okay, but look, a good CSR would say "yes, of course, if things are as you describe, then clearly we would cancel the charge" and I'd have said "sure, let me run a cable over there". But she was clearly hedging. As though she expected a cheat. Rather than saying "hey, look, we have a problem with this, are you *sure* it was an accident". But no, she came off as someone trying to save Dish a whopping $10 or $20. In the end, I felt like she didn't earn my trust, so I reciprocated and moved on. Did I rip them off? No one will ever know with 100% certainty. But all I can say is that I sleep with a clean conscience.

#43 OFFLINE   Rogueone

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 12:57 AM

sounds like a non issue to me. imagine if dish pulled that log and saw 5 ppv purchases in about a 30 second window. obviously someone was confused. then you bring into the equation that reciever is for the kids, no chance they don't drop it. plus they'd also see the shows were not watched
Regards,

RogueOne
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#44 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 10:48 AM

Okay, but look, a good CSR would say "yes, of course, if things are as you describe, then clearly we would cancel the charge" and I'd have said "sure, let me run a cable over there". But she was clearly hedging. As though she expected a cheat. Rather than saying "hey, look, we have a problem with this, are you *sure* it was an accident". But no, she came off as someone trying to save Dish a whopping $10 or $20. In the end, I felt like she didn't earn my trust, so I reciprocated and moved on. Did I rip them off? No one will ever know with 100% certainty. But all I can say is that I sleep with a clean conscience.


But the CSR wasn't the one who had to earn your trust. You weren't connected to a phone line, and you wanted to prove you didn't really watch movies on the receiver, and you decided you'd rather not hook it up and deactivate it rather than give the CSR all the information to work with.

For all I know, you are 100% truthful and it would all have worked out.

What kind of message does that send to your kids? That if they do something accidentally, and it might be wrong, they should hide it and not tell anyone because if they don't get caught then they don't have to explain and they can avoid all risk of punishment by compounding a mistake with dishonesty?

I am not questioning that you are lying about what happened... just pointing out that the way you handled it makes it look like you are not being completely truthful.

IF *I* were in your situation, I'd have hooked up the phone line... pointed out that there's no way I could have watched 5 simultaneous PPVs in a half hour, and politely asked if the CSR could help me out. Keeping in mind that the old "ignorance is no excuse" holds true and Dish wouldn't have to credit you because they could say "don't let kids who aren't old enough to understand operate the equipment"... but I would hope they would appreciate my honesty and work with me.

IF I was completely honest, and they didn't work with me... then I would pay the PPV bill in full, and most likely I would look to switch as soon as possible to another service provider if it made me mad enough.

My only "beef" is that you tell a story of dishonesty, start a thread about "how to work around the $5 fee" and complain that it isn't just... only to admit that you're actually guilty of the kind of thing they have the phone line designed to guard against. It doesn't make you evil in any way, just kind of waters down your stance in complaining.

#45 OFFLINE   John Ashman

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 11:00 AM

I guess you'd have had to been there. But, if the mission was to watch stolen PPVs, why on earth would I call them? In my panic, I simply didn't think that the unit couldn't communicate with them. If I were actively stealing PPVs, I'd never have bothered to call. But they were way too eager to get me to connect the line. It wasn't even like "hey, yes, that can happen, but we won't charge you for it if it's obviously an accident". It was more like "well, you need to hook up you unit now". Even knowing this, I've never watched a PPV off of DISH. It's why I have a DVD player.

#46 OFFLINE   nitz369

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 11:17 AM

For some reason most people are not looking at the other options out there. Dish is the only company that offers these Dual Tuner's. So basically because they offer them they are giving you a discount. But if you choose to not plug a phone line in then they won't give you a discount. REMEMBER THIS, without dual tuner you would have a lot more $5 fees for each room, AND you don't get the convienience of having recorded program being on multiple TVS!

Also, I am a Dish Reseller and they have been very clear about one Thing:

The $6 lease fee of HD, WILL NOT be charge if you only have one HD Box, they will consider your HD box to be the box that is included with your programming!!!!

#47 OFFLINE   nitz369

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 11:18 AM

I am really getting tired of reading threads from all of your Conspiracy Theorists out there!

Lay off Dish!

My area I can get Comcast, and DirectTV, neither one comes close to Dish prices and features!!

#48 OFFLINE   John Ashman

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 10:00 PM

Nitz, that's why I can't understand some of the seemingly aberrant behavior that doesn't seem to jive with Dish's usually fine service. At least they came up with a coherent program that doesn't make current subscribers feel cheated. But I still feel the fee for not having a line is stupid and needs to be challenged. Or, at least there ought to be exceptions.




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