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Guest Message by DevFuse

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DirecTV's LEASING Plan (Effective 3/1/2006)


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#26 OFFLINE   hiker

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 10:38 AM

I understand that you can still purchase equipment at higher prices than the lease plan up-front cost, so how will D* distinguish between lease and purchase going forward? And if purchase is still possible, if you know, what retailers are selling equipment or is it purchase from D* only? CC and WM are said to be lease only. Weaknees selling or leasing?

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#27 OFFLINE   dan8379

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 01:32 PM

I was in Circuit City today and they are still selling receivers. However, I noticed that they no longer are offering rebates. The H20 is $99, and the HD-DVR is $499, neither one was showing the rebate that they previously had.

#28 OFFLINE   hiker

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 02:17 PM

CC supposedly went to lease plan, see their website. Maybe the store personnel don't know about it yet.

#29 OFFLINE   robk

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 04:51 PM

I'm sorry maybe i am just stupid, but why do you have to pay to lease something? I could see a small fee, but i have to spend 500 bucks not to own something, could someone please explain what my benefit is? and dont tell me i can get a replacement if it breaks..

#30 OFFLINE   sheepishlion

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 05:45 PM

I'm sorry maybe i am just stupid, but why do you have to pay to lease something? I could see a small fee, but i have to spend 500 bucks not to own something, could someone please explain what my benefit is? and dont tell me i can get a replacement if it breaks..



As far as leasing receivers goes, there are some advantages. The first being the one you already mentioned, the replacement receivers.

The second is the upgrades. You mentioned the $500 for the HD-DVR, if you were to get that now, you would get the HR10-250, which is only MPEG-2, so when the HR20 (MPEG-4) comes out in a few months, D* would upgrade you for free to the HR20. (This is what I understood from the training that we received for leasing. There has yet been anything given to CSR's that specifically say that we can upgrade to a newer model at no cost, nor how to do it. That doesn't mean it won't happen. The training that we had specifically said this would be a great option for people who have to have the top of the line technology.) I don't know if they would upgrade the dish at no cost under the lease program, but from what I have heard here on the forums is that most areas are supposed to be installing the Ka-Ku dish with any HD install anyways.

A third reason is lower up front cost for the receivers. Yes I know it is about the same price as it was before 3/1. Compared to the purchase option you have now, it is cheaper than the $749. You also get one $100 mail in rebate for advanced products per year, and the leasing comes with a 2 year commitment. If you do purchase instead of leasing , there is no commitment because you are not receiving any sort of discount.

If anyone else can think of any advantages, please feel free to add them.

#31 OFFLINE   MikeW

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 05:52 PM

If my option is to keep owning my HR10-250 vs. trading it in to lease an MPEG4 compatible receiver for "free", I'll keep the Tivo and skip the extra programming. I already get the nets OTA and if and when I switch to another provider, I can still sell my Tivo on E-Bay (providing they don't go the E* route and not allow any HD programming on "legacy" receivers).

#32 OFFLINE   Wolffpack

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 12:23 AM

I'm sorry maybe i am just stupid, but why do you have to pay to lease something? I could see a small fee, but i have to spend 500 bucks not to own something, could someone please explain what my benefit is? and dont tell me i can get a replacement if it breaks..

Ah but you get to pay up front to lease the equipment AND you make a two year commitment. Compare that to cable, no up front and no commitment. DTV will have some lean months until this get's ironed out.

#33 OFFLINE   grooves12

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 02:26 AM

Or to Dish... lower "lease upgrade fees" and no commitment... unless you opt-in and receive a $49 credit.

DirecTv's numbers have been stagnant for a while... and Dish Network has been closing in on them in market share, this retarded "strategy" for HD will only make that more likely.

In fact I am one of the recent defections... I was a customer for 10 years and converted as many of my friends/family as I could because of my hate for the local cable company, but I recently moved and rather than take DirecTV with me, I decided to try out Dish, and so far I am VERY happy with that decision.

#34 OFFLINE   ETCal

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 12:10 AM

Here's what I found today, March 4th: Costco is now selling the HD TiVo for $430 with no rebate. I called DirecTV and they wouldn't give me a rebate either (I'm already a customer).

Last week I bought an HD TiVo at Costco for $550- $200 rebate. Net cost: $350, or $80 less than the lease price. Plus I also got about $100 in programming credits, for a net net cost of $250.

Difference is that if you now lease an HD TiVo, they'll give you free installation; I don't need any installation. I installed it myself.

DirecTV also said that each store that continues to sell these boxes determines if they're selling them outright or taking part in the leasing program.

#35 OFFLINE   vurbano

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 09:05 AM

excuse the cross post but this is where it belongs:

This is what Im seeing for someone that cancels after a month under the new lease program with a new HR10-250 with info gathered by LonghornXP at satelliteguys.com. The matter is currently being reviewed by the Florida AG.

$499 HD DVR reciever upfront lease charge + monthly lease fee
$300 programming termination fee.
-$12.50 (credit for 1 month service)
if you send the reciever back you are out $786.50 bucks and have nothing to show for it

If you keep the reciever:
$499 HD DVR reciever upfront lease charge + monthly lease fee
+ $300 programming termination fee.
+ $470 D* charge for not returning the reciever, and this does NOT dissappear after 2 years
- $12.5 (credit for 1 month service)
= $1256.50 and they can charge you with grand theft according to longhorn's sources




before 2/28 I could get an Hr10-250 off ebay new for around $450 - $200 rebate = $250 dollars with the $300 cancellation fee for a cost of $550 - 12.5 = $537.5 dollars if I cancelled after one month correct? So overnight D* has decided to screw us out of another $700 dollars.

In short to answer the original poster, it benifits D* by extracting an ADDITIONAL 700 dollars from every new HDtivo owner that cancels service.

#36 OFFLINE   dan8379

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 02:35 PM

Just playing the Devil's Advocate a bit here, but is this really any different from leasing a car? I realize that a car and a satellite receiver aren't the same thing, but the model seems the same. If you terminate a car lease early, you have to pay off what you owed on the lease and you have to return the car. You also forfeit any down payment that was made. I guess if you don't like the lease model you can just pay the extra $300 up front for the HD DVR and own it outright. What I've read is that if you own it you don't have to pay the monthly lease fee on that unit (hopefully this is the case), but you would have to pay on additional receivers that you have.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to pay $5 or $10 month with no up front cost and no commitment for a state of the art HD DVR, but I also understand why D* isn't offering that.

#37 OFFLINE   fastep

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 03:11 PM

From Comcast there is zero up front cost and only $9.95 per month. With Dish, it's $299 to lease with a $5.95 per month lease fee.

Hey, if DirecTV can get that out of people, more power to them, but I can't see how they will be competitive with Dish and cable at those prices.



I think the problem is that many DTV customers have a pre-conceived notion about cable and DISH based on cable pq in 1988 and prior DISH dvr problems.

I gave Comcast a try and am very happy with their HD DVR and service.

I recommend to all DTV customers: give HD cable or new dish vip622 a shot. You can cancel with either co if you don't like it and installation should be free. With most cablecos you can cancel at anytime and I believe Dish has no contract with good credit. When I spoke with dish recently, I was told if I did not like the 622 I could send it back at their expense and get a full refund of the $299 upfront lease fee.

#38 OFFLINE   ajseagles3

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 05:10 PM

I liked cable just fine, actually. I got D* for the Sunday Ticket, and that's pretty much it.

#39 OFFLINE   Rickster

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 05:47 PM

What I've read is that if you own it you don't have to pay the monthly lease fee on that unit (hopefully this is the case), but you would have to pay on additional receivers that you have.



According to the changeout offer, you do still pay a lease fee on one you own [or what use to be known as "additional reciever fee">>So yes you are correct, still a fee

I also talked to a knowledgeable BB csr this weekend
He said under the old policy [pre2/28} Stores used to buy thier hardware from D* and if they sold a pkg, they would get a kick back from D*

NOW,under the lease program they still buy the hardware, but when a sale is made, D* reimburses them for the agreed upon cost of the hdw

He also confirmed that some stores that have not agreed upon the NEW policy agreement with D*, can sell the equipment at whatever they want but there will be no cashback to them

When asked if it is "owned" he said you have 30 days or until March 30 to activate it or be subject to a fee. He also said this is a way for D* to know if it was owned hdw or leased [because after 30 almost all would be leased]

He also said the only other way around "owned" was if you could prove it was yours and/or previously activated, but maybe not used lately
RC

#40 OFFLINE   Rickster

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 10:33 AM

WORD _PLAY

A word that has been used frequently in this industry and on most sites is

CHURN
A issue that providers have that create too frequent turnover rates for subcribers that can easily drop hardware and programming, therefore reducing providers profit. :nono2:

Well, with the advant of D*'s new leasing program and their efforts to reduce "churn", They may have inadvertantly created a new catch phrase word for themselves.:eek2:

CHUM [Most who are into fishing should be familar with this word]

A manner of "attracting" prospective interested parties, with the intent to drag on board, with very slim chances or a fair release.:mad:

Based upon the opinons of many posters, here and abroad, it seems to be pretty acurate, eh?:D
I quess the true test will be the next qtr's figures on new Sub's.

#41 OFFLINE   Stevies3

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 03:41 PM

If the equipment is leased, Is the warranty still the same as befor (90 Days) or can you change out your box anytime you need to. With cable, You can change out your equipment anytime you need to (for the most part) I currently lease my cable modem & any time they make an upgrade or carry a new & improved modem I usualy swap out the modem with no hassle. Steven

#42 OFFLINE   lumstruck

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 05:22 PM

If the equipment is leased, Is the warranty still the same as befor (90 Days) or can you change out your box anytime you need to. With cable, You can change out your equipment anytime you need to (for the most part) I currently lease my cable modem & any time they make an upgrade or carry a new & improved modem I usualy swap out the modem with no hassle. Steven

If the equipment is leased your "warranty" goes as long as you lease. On the other hand, if you send back equipment when you terminate service and it is not operational they will charge you for the receiver, the same as if you didn't return it at all. Since anything could happen in shipment, this seems risky with a HD/DVR. The whole lease push s#cks. :nono:
It's main purpose it to put DirecTV into the black on their end of year financials. They can now add all the "leased" equipment to their bottom line as owned and it should help them turn black...

#43 OFFLINE   ScoBuck

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 05:35 PM

If the equipment is leased your "warranty" goes as long as you lease. On the other hand, if you send back equipment when you terminate service and it is not operational they will charge you for the receiver, the same as if you didn't return it at all. Since anything could happen in shipment, this seems risky with a HD/DVR. The whole lease push s#cks. :nono:
It's main purpose it to put DirecTV into the black on their end of year financials. They can now add all the "leased" equipment to their bottom line as owned and it should help them turn black...


Hate to tell you, but.........D* made 1.5 billion last year in operating profit. I don't think most of the people here give them enough credit for knowing their business. They also added 1.2 million new subscribers last year. They have millions more subs than DISH does.

#44 OFFLINE   hiker

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 06:03 PM

Anyone know the current subscriber count for D* and E*? I thought E* was adding subs at a greater rate than D*.

#45 OFFLINE   hiker

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 06:29 PM

... They have millions more subs than DISH does.

I searched around on Yahoo finance and D* has 13.9 million subs and E* has 11.23 million, so it's closer than you think and E* is adding at a faster rate. I don't get it, I tried E* and it sucks.

#46 OFFLINE   Wolffpack

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 10:18 PM

Well DTV is about to take it in the tank for new subs with this "pay for the unit up front and commit to 24 months" new "lease" program. I cannot imagine anyone with half a brain is going for this over E* or cable.

I'm sure there are already meetings being held and marketing folks being held accountable for this mess.

I'll bet by the end of April we will see a different DTV lease program.

SD DVR: Up front nothing. Monthly lease $10.99.
HD DVR: Up front $200. Monthly lease $15.99.

Committment, 12 months.

#47 OFFLINE   Newshawk

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 12:32 AM

I searched around on Yahoo finance and D* has 13.9 million subs and E* has 11.23 million, so it's closer than you think and E* is adding at a faster rate. I don't get it, I tried E* and it sucks.

The last I heard, D* has over 15 million subs and E* has around 13 million... but I could be off a bit.

#48 OFFLINE   dan8379

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 09:15 AM

Well DTV is about to take it in the tank for new subs with this "pay for the unit up front and commit to 24 months" new "lease" program. I cannot imagine anyone with half a brain is going for this over E* or cable.

I'm sure there are already meetings being held and marketing folks being held accountable for this mess.

I'll bet by the end of April we will see a different DTV lease program.

SD DVR: Up front nothing. Monthly lease $10.99.
HD DVR: Up front $200. Monthly lease $15.99.

Committment, 12 months.


If it were $15.99/month for the HD DVR I'd like to think that the up front cost would be less. Heck, 2 years at $15.99/month is nearly $385. That means that after 2 years you'd have invested nearly $600. The model we're currently hearing about ($499 up front, no lease fee for the first unit) would be better than that. I think something like $100 or $150 up front and then $9.99/month would be much more acceptable to most.

#49 OFFLINE   ScoBuck

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 09:19 AM

Well DTV is about to take it in the tank for new subs with this "pay for the unit up front and commit to 24 months" new "lease" program. I cannot imagine anyone with half a brain is going for this over E* or cable.

I'm sure there are already meetings being held and marketing folks being held accountable for this mess.

I'll bet by the end of April we will see a different DTV lease program.

SD DVR: Up front nothing. Monthly lease $10.99.
HD DVR: Up front $200. Monthly lease $15.99.

Committment, 12 months.


For new customers (which is what you mention in your first sentence), SD DVR is FREE after rebate and $5.99 month for 24 months (total $143.76 or $5.99 month) - the way you would lease it would be a grand total of $11.88 cheaper, but with 12 months LESS service (12 X $10.99 = $131.88 or $10.99 month) - if you keep it 2 years your total cost is way higher under YOUR idea ($ total $263.76 or $120 more than the currentl offer). For the HD DVR for new customers it is $399 upfront (after rebate) and 24X$5.99 for a total of $542.76 (22.16 per month for 24 months) - your plan would be $200 up front and 12X$15.99 for a total of $391.88 ($32.65 per month for 12 months) under your plan a sub keeping for 2 years would pay MORE ($15.99X24 = $583.76). Both CURRENT plans are far less expensive on a monthly basis over their terms. I see this as MORE attractive to new customers than your plan. A 24 month committment for the average Joe (who doesn't change much of anything every 2 years is perfect). They clearly stated that churn was a huge concern, thus the longer comittment. They are not really looking to install free dishes, wire houses for FREE, give FREE equipment - then have the person walk in a year.

How much of a bet on the end of April thing?

Oh and by the way - have you changed to DISH or cable yet (I'm assuming you have at least half a brain)?

#50 OFFLINE   Wolffpack

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 10:59 AM

Oh and by the way - have you changed to DISH or cable yet (I'm assuming you have at least half a brain)?

I'm an existing customer, been so since '97. I've got 7 DVRs active and own them. The "half a brain" comment was referring to new customers, just as you mentioned.

If I were not a customer, and given the fact the DTV DVR is not a Tivo anymore, I'd start with cable. Low or nothing up front and no commitment.




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