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DirecTV Lease vs Buy Confusion


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#51 OFFLINE   hiker

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 04:03 PM

There are no lease fees if you have only one receiver/DVR or if you have more than one the first is free. Additional ones have a $4.99/mo each charge like the prior mirror fee. By charging the initial $499 they are getting the lease fee upfront.
On most other lease plans there is heavy monthly cost.

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#52 OFFLINE   ScoB

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 04:15 PM

I didn't mean to imply that lease deals have no up front costs, just that the up front costs should be substantially lower than full price. I've heard $499 to "lease" and $799 to own. A measley 35% percent price reduction doesn't qualify as a lease deal to me. Especially when it's not so much a reduction in the "lease" price as it is an increase in the buy to own price.


First of all the D* letter to retailers clearly states that should they desire to sell receivers, it can be at ANY price they choose.

Second, the $499 is not truly the 'full' price. These prices have long been subsidized to retailers by DirecTV. You are in fact only talking about the sales price under the previous subsidized model. The whole thing has changed.

As to the advantages, well in my case 2 years ago I bought a Hughes E86 for $700, last year I bought a HUGES HD HTL also for $700. Both are now in my garage collecting dust. If I could have 'leased' HD receivers back then for even $99 upfront, I could be replacing them 6 more times to cover my original purchase price for EACH one. That's right, getting new technology every few years with a small upfront payment.

IMO, thats an advantage.

As far as ebay, of course I am aware of ebay. I own all of my present D* stuff. I made sure to upgrade to H20 and AT9 before the lease model so that at least for the next 2-3 years I am set. I don't have to worry about this whole thing, and that goes back to my first post (#2) on this thread. If you come to these boards, and you wanted to own the stuff, they had the best rebates up to end February - free HD receivers, free SD DVRs, large rebates on the HD DVR.

I didn't know how the lease plan would work out, I had my questions, but I made sure I was set so that I didn't have to go through all of this myself.

#53 OFFLINE   hiker

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 04:50 PM

When I first learned about this lease plan I was deadset against it. Now after analyzing it, it is looking better.

The problem for me at first was the shock of the $499 upfront cost. But since there is no monthly lease fee, that amounts to little over $20/mo over 2 years. Maybe D* should give us that option, i.e., $20/mo and $0 upfront and heavier penalties for early cancellation. Also remember installation is free, something important to a lot of people.

But I think one of the big problems for D* is trying to reduce churn (subscriber turnover). So the big upfront cost maybe is aimed at this problem. It just might scare the hell out of some people but the monthly fee would to easier to stomach.

#54 OFFLINE   ravichopra

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 06:00 PM

When I first learned about this lease plan I was deadset against it. Now after analyzing it, it is looking better.

The problem for me at first was the shock of the $499 upfront cost. But since there is no monthly lease fee, that amounts to little over $20/mo over 2 years. Maybe D* should give us that option, i.e., $20/mo and $0 upfront and heavier penalties for early cancellation. Also remember installation is free, something important to a lot of people.

But I think one of the big problems for D* is trying to reduce churn (subscriber turnover). So the big upfront cost maybe is aimed at this problem. It just might scare the hell out of some people but the monthly fee would to easier to stomach.


I think you've hit it on the head here. And I would agree that trying to reduce churn is a good strategy and goal that does not have to conflict with customer needs.

Unfortunately, what they've done is structure it in such a way so as to reduce consumer confidence in them.

I've been a D* user for 4 or so years now. Really like the serivce/quality/etc. Despite the fact I've been happy with them for all this time (and have had a MUCH better experience than I ever had with cable), I have serious qualms.

Consider - with a heavy $400 up-front "lease" fee for the box that they keep regardless of length of service, they have NO incentive to actually provide good service. "Not happy with how we treat you? What a shame, send us our box back and we'll keep your $$$$..." With cable, their monthly box-rental fee is reasonable on a monthly basis and gives me the option to tell them to get bent if they don't provide value for my money.

Consider - with the new lease plan I have really no idea what the upgrade path or costs will be when they release new technology. Nothing appears to be in writing to guarantee anything. With cable, if tech changes, I just change boxes and start paying whatever new monthly fee there might be.

I had the terrific timing to find out that local HD was available in my area on 3/1. Hoorah.

Now, where I'd been ready to plunk the money down to upgrade to D* HD/DVR service, I think I just might wait and see how TiVO Series 3 looks and find out if it'll work well with either Comcast or WOW (both HD cables available in my area).

I can't imagine my response is what D* is looking for. I also can't imagine why they couldn't have predicted it.

-Ravi

#55 OFFLINE   eengert

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 08:03 AM

As to the advantages, well in my case 2 years ago I bought a Hughes E86 for $700, last year I bought a HUGES HD HTL also for $700. Both are now in my garage collecting dust. If I could have 'leased' HD receivers back then for even $99 upfront, I could be replacing them 6 more times to cover my original purchase price for EACH one. That's right, getting new technology every few years with a small upfront payment.

IMO, thats an advantage.


You seem to be misunderstanding me. I'll say again that I'm not against leasing. In fact, I like the idea of leasing. But I don't consider what D* is doing "leasing". You talk about a $99 up front lease...that's exactly what I would consider a lease. I would then expect a monthly payment in the range of $10-$15. $499 up front is not a good lease deal, especially when just a month ago I bought the same unit for $399 and own it. I understand what is being said about paying up front and not having a monthly payment, but I don't consider that a lease at all. Besides, I don't think that's the case. As I (try) to read the lease agreement, it appears there is a $4.99 fee per month per unit. It's difficult to discern whether that applies to all units, or just the units above and beyond their arbitrary limits (total of 6 receivers including no more than 2 DVRs, 2 HD, and 1 HD DVR). If I read that correctly, it adds even more fuel to my fire. Sounds like either you can't have more than one HD DVR leased, or you have to pay $4.99 per month for each "extra" HD DVR. Ridiculous when added to an enormous up front cost. The whole idea of leasing, as I said earlier, is that you're only paying for it while you use it. The tradeoff for that advantage is that you don't get to own it. But, again, D* is charging the full price (and of course I understand your point about resale vs. "full" price, but I mean that I'm paying the same now or more than I was when I could buy to own) with no added benefits and I can no longer own the equipment. So my point continues to be that while, in theory, leasing has advantages that I like, I disagree that what D* is doing should be called leasing given the extremely high up front costs. The only thing that would change my mind on that is if they pro-rated the cost and refunded you when you turned in the equipment based on that. That would work out the same in the end. But since I don't believe they do that as part of their "lease", then I can't agree with calling it a lease and it has less benefits than owning at the same price.
- Eric

---------------------------------------------
D* Equipment:
2 - HR20-700's
8-ch SWM

Televisions:
50" Sony SXRD (xbr1)
32" JVC SD CRT

AVR:
Denon AVR 2307CI

Other Components:
Slingbox AV
Toshiba HD-A2 HD-DVD Player
Playstation 3 (60Gb)

#56 OFFLINE   ScoB

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 02:02 PM

You seem to be misunderstanding me.
No, I don't think so.

I'll say again that I'm not against leasing. In fact, I like the idea of leasing.
OK.

But I don't consider what D* is doing "leasing".
I do.

You talk about a $99 up front lease...that's exactly what I would consider a lease.
They can make the upfront whatever they want, that doesn't change the terms of the agreement - it might change your desire to do it. The upfront for a standard DVR or a HD receiver IS only $99.

I would then expect a monthly payment in the range of $10-$15.
Why so high? It's only $5.99 for a HD DVR. You thus should be ok with it.

$499 up front is not a good lease deal, especially when just a month ago I bought the same unit for $399 and own it.
Again - you bought it with a rebate of $200 which is NO longer available. I bought gas last year for under $1.50 a gallon. That also is no longer avialable. You bought a price subsidized DVR at a great price - that is indeed good for you.

I understand what is being said about paying up front and not having a monthly payment, but I don't consider that a lease at all.
You're dead wrong about this one - there is in fact a monthly payment - $5.99 DVR monthly fee (unless you have the premier package).

Besides, I don't think that's the case. As I (try) to read the lease agreement, it appears there is a $4.99 fee per month per unit. It's difficult to discern whether that applies to all units, or just the units above and beyond their arbitrary limits (total of 6 receivers including no more than 2 DVRs, 2 HD, and 1 HD DVR). Actually, Actually I think it's been pretty clear that the first receiver is not charged a mirror (or lease fee), there still would be a DVR fee of $5.99 month. There would only be an additional monthly $4.99 for ANY additional receivers or DVR of any type.


If I read that correctly, it adds even more fuel to my fire. Sounds like either you can't have more than one HD DVR leased, or you have to pay $4.99 per month for each "extra" HD DVR.
Again not true. There is a $4.99 charge for your second and each additional box. There is only ONE DVR charge of $5.99 per month.

Ridiculous when added to an enormous up front cost.
Now this is where everyone makes their own value judgement of course.

The whole idea of leasing, as I said earlier, is that you're only paying for it while you use it. The tradeoff for that advantage is that you don't get to own it. But, again, D* is charging the full price (and of course I understand your point about resale vs. "full" price, but I mean that I'm paying the same now or more than I was when I could buy to own) with no added benefits and I can no longer own the equipment.
You are paying what they feel is a fair amount for approx 2 years or so of usage. You can't keep going back to what it used to be. Nothing is what it used to be. They have decieded to adopt a different business model. My advice if you are so unhappy with it is to first of all call them and let them know (if you haven't already done so), and also to not continue with them and choose another provider.

So my point continues to be that while, in theory, leasing has advantages that I like, I disagree that what D* is doing should be called leasing given the extremely high up front costs.
The amount of the upfront cost doesn't make a difference as to what it is 'called'. And the bottom line of course will be in the next 3-6 months or so when they study the results versus plan of this new business model. That and that alone will shape their ongoing business decisions.

The only thing that would change my mind on that is if they pro-rated the cost and refunded you when you turned in the equipment based on that. That would work out the same in the end. But since I don't believe they do that as part of their "lease", then I can't agree with calling it a lease and it has less benefits than owning at the same price.

You are entitled to your opinions.
When I turned in my leased car, they didn't refund my down paymemtn to me. But whether or not YOU agree with calling it a lease, it is INDEED BEING CALLED A LEASE by DirecTV.


#57 OFFLINE   eengert

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 02:30 PM

You are entitled to your opinions.
When I turned in my leased car, they didn't refund my down paymemtn to me. But whether or not YOU agree with calling it a lease, it is INDEED BEING CALLED A LEASE by DirecTV.


Your comments don't seem very relevant to my points. I get the impression that you like being argumentative for the sake of having an argument, but you're not really responding to my points. Anyway, I've shared my concerns with this new policy and I think I'll end my involvement with this thread here.
- Eric

---------------------------------------------
D* Equipment:
2 - HR20-700's
8-ch SWM

Televisions:
50" Sony SXRD (xbr1)
32" JVC SD CRT

AVR:
Denon AVR 2307CI

Other Components:
Slingbox AV
Toshiba HD-A2 HD-DVD Player
Playstation 3 (60Gb)

#58 OFFLINE   ScoB

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 08:46 PM

Your comments don't seem very relevant to my points. I get the impression that you like being argumentative for the sake of having an argument, but you're not really responding to my points. Anyway, I've shared my concerns with this new policy and I think I'll end my involvement with this thread here.


Too many of your points are not accurate - but of course its not you that's argumentative.

#59 OFFLINE   ScoBuck

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 08:51 PM

Your comments don't seem very relevant to my points. I get the impression that you like being argumentative for the sake of having an argument, but you're not really responding to my points. Anyway, I've shared my concerns with this new policy and I think I'll end my involvement with this thread here.


Well - I just read both sides of this one - I'm leaning towards Sco. But if $99 upfront would be a lease to you, and $499 would not - what is the border?

I don't agree with all of his statements, but he did answer you point by point.

My bottom line - since you already own your stuff - what difference does it make to you anyhow? Seems like you just wanted to have this very type of argument.

#60 OFFLINE   Wolffpack

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 10:50 PM

I'm even going to leave this one alone.

#61 OFFLINE   ScoB

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 11:22 PM

Whatever - It is not really at all popular to take the side supporting D* - but I am just trying to look at it from their side and present what I believe would be their 'argument'. We all speculate, we really don't get any response directly back from D* or any of these companies. D* is the one making the multi-millions, they must be doing SOMETHING right. They have more subs than DISH don't they?

But from the bottom of my heart, this place has shown to me that no matter what D*, DISH, cable, etc do, there are just way too many people complaining. Everything from HD-Lite, to wanting EVERY imaginable channel (including ones that don't exist yet). It certainly would be great if all of this TV was free, if the equipment was free - but that also is never gonna be again. (I'm not talking about OTA).

I know that if any of these providers asked us all to pay what it would cost them to get immediate the capacity to do EVERYTHING - now that would just cause even more complaints.

There is absolutely no single provider that offers everything - we all choose who we have based on our own situations, most of us do have choices, none of them perfect for our tastes. Some peeps complain when new channels with sports are added, some can't get enough sports, etc.

But wolff - who cares if YOU leave this alone (I don't). Again you show that you believe your title - 'icon'. You mis-read my previous posts, and ended up blaming me for that. I answered yours and this other fellows sentence by sentence - not to be argumentative as you suggest - but rather because both of you don't seem to read entire sentences, you just read a couple of words and think you know it all.

But you win. I won't be back here. Too much whining - just like I said in post #2 of this thread.

TaTa

#62 OFFLINE   dan8379

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 08:14 AM

I guess one thing that makes D*'s lease structure different from a car lease is the percentage of the overall cost of the product that you have to put down up front. From what I've read the new HD-DVR will be $799 to purchase, or $499 to lease. That means that you have to put down 62% of the purchase price as a down payment. Most people wouldn't plunk down over $12,000 up front on a lease of a $20,000 car. I really think if they did a $200 up front (for the HD DVR) and even a $10/month lease fee people would be much happier. There would still be complaints, no doubt, but it would be much easier for a lot of people to swallow.

#63 OFFLINE   ScoBuck

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 11:25 AM

I guess one thing that makes D*'s lease structure different from a car lease is the percentage of the overall cost of the product that you have to put down up front. From what I've read the new HD-DVR will be $799 to purchase, or $499 to lease. That means that you have to put down 62% of the purchase price as a down payment. Most people wouldn't plunk down over $12,000 up front on a lease of a $20,000 car. I really think if they did a $200 up front (for the HD DVR) and even a $10/month lease fee people would be much happier. There would still be complaints, no doubt, but it would be much easier for a lot of people to swallow.


I agree with whoever made the comment that pricing (lease or purchase) will ultimately be determined by how many people say YES and how many people say no. Also, as stated, the OVERWHELMING majority of subscribers DO NOT visit sites like this and are really not educated as most of the people that do. DirecTV, like EVERY other for-profit company has the right to, made a strategic decision and the fact is - it can either fail miserably or suceeds tremendously - time will tell.

There has also been rampant conversation about how DirecTV will upgrade the current HD-DVR population. I have seen opinions all over the spectrum on this - from no additional upfront charges for current lease customers and so on. I'm willing to bet that if the upgrade charge is in fact reasonable, this uproar will disappear. From what I read, almost everyone here already owns their gear, they are not leasing, and are mostly worried about how the impending MPEG4 switchover will be handled and how this will affect them.

#64 OFFLINE   ScoBuck

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 04:22 PM

Read it and weep:

Just checked the BestBuy website - looks like they have finally realized that they are LEASING not selling - pasted below are the T&C taken directly off the website. Mentions both NEW & EXISTING customers.

DIRECTV Terms and Conditions

By placing this order you agree to the following terms and conditions:

YOU UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT YOU HAVE NOT PURCHASED THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT, YOU DO NOT OWN THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT AND THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT MUST BE USED AND RETURNED TO DIRECTV STRICTLY IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE TERMS OF THE EQUIPMENT LEASE ADDENDUM AND THE DIRECTV CUSTOMER AGREEMENT.
• PROGRAMMING AGREEMENT. Within 30 days of provision of DIRECTV equipment to you, you agree to activate any DIRECTV® TOTAL CHOICE® programming package (valued at $44.99 per mo. or above), or any DIRECTV PARA TODOS® programming package (valued at $29.99 per mo. or above); or any qualifying international services bundle, which bundle shall include either the DIRECTV® BASIC programming package (valued at $9.99 per mo.) or the DIRECTV PREFERRED CHOICE? programming package (valued at $29.99 per mo.) together with any WorldDirect? international-language service. In certain markets, programming and pricing may vary.
• DVR service activation ($5.99/mo.) required for DVR and HD DVR leases.
• PROGRAMMING AND PRICING SUBJECT TO CHANGE AT ANY TIME.
• PROGRAMMING COMMITMENT. The programming package(s) must be maintained for a period of not less than (a) twelve (12) consecutive months (for accounts with only standard receiver(s)), or (B) twenty-four (24) consecutive months (for accounts with advanced product(s)/receiver(s)-digital video recorder (DVR), high definition receiver (HD) or high definition digital video recorder (HDDVR), including additional DIRECTV receiver(s)). After you have fulfilled your agreement to the required programming package(s), you are not obligated to continue your subscription to DIRECTV programming for any specific duration. Current DIRECTV customers may activate additional receivers with their existing DIRECTV programming package. THIS PROGRAMMING COMMITMENT IS SEPARATE AND DIFFERENT FROM ANY OTHER PROGRAMMING COMMITMENT YOU MAY HAVE MADE WITH DIRECTV AND IS FULLY ENFORCEABLE UNDER THESE TERMS.
MONTHLY LEASE FEE. For a new DIRECTV customer, you will be charged a monthly lease fee in the amount of $4.99 per 2nd and each additional receiver leased by you in your household. For a current customer, you will be charged a monthly fee in the amount of $4.99 for each receiver leased by you in your household, unless you replace all of your owned-equipment with leased equipment, in which case, the monthly lease fee will be waived for the 1st receiver. Applicable taxes will apply. LEASE FEE SUBJECT TO CHANGE AT ANY TIME.
• CARE OF EQUIPMENT. You are responsible for the loss of or any damage to the DIRECTV equipment that you have leased from DIRECTV. You shall have no right to sell, give away, transfer, pledge, mortgage, remove, relocate, alter or tamper with the DIRECTV equipment at any time. DIRECTV PROVIDES YOU THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT AS IS, AND MAKES NO WARRANTY, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, REGARDING THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT PROVIDED TO YOU. ALL SUCH WARRANTIES INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, ARE EXPRESSLY EXCLUDED. DIRECTV IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES RELATING TO THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT PROVIDED TO YOU. In the event the DIRECTV equipment you have leased from DIRECTV does not operate, contact DIRECTV at 1-800-531-5000.
• CONSEQUENCES OF YOUR FAILURE TO ACTIVATE PROGRAMMING OR SATISFY YOUR PROGRAMMING COMMITMENT. If you fail to activate your DIRECTV equipment within 30 days of DIRECTV’s provision of the DIRECTV equipment to you, you agree that DIRECTV or an authorized DIRECTV Retailer may charge you a fee, as liquidated damages, of $150 for each receiver that is not activated. If you fail to maintain your minimum programming commitment, you agree that DIRECTV may charge you a prorated fee of up to $150 for standard receivers and up to $300 for advanced products/receivers (e.g. DVR, HD, HD DVR, etc.).
• RETURN OF DIRECTV EQUIPMETNT. If you cancel your order prior to installation, we will issue a full refund. However, once your system is installed and activated, we do not accept returns or issue refunds.
• After installation, if you cease to be DIRECTV’s customer for any reason (whether voluntary or involuntary) or if you decide to disconnect/cancel/terminate your DVR service (if you are leasing a DVR Receiver), you must call DIRECTV within seven (7) days after the termination of your DIRECTV programming services or DVR service, as applicable, to (i) make arrangements for DIRECTV to pick up all of your DIRECTV equipment; or (ii) obtain information from DIRECTV necessary to arrange for a ground or air freight service to pick up and deliver all of your DIRECTV equipment to DIRECTV. You acknowledge that the DIRECTV equipment belongs to DIRECTV and the DIRECTV equipment, including the access card inserted into each receiver, must be returned to DIRECTV in good working order, normal wear and tear excepted. In the event that all of the DIRECTV equipment is not returned to DIRECTV within thirty (30) days of the termination of your DIRECTV programming services or is damaged when it is returned to DIRECTV, you agree to pay DIRECTV the sum of $55 per each DIRECTV standard receiver; $200 for each DIRECTV DVR Receiver; $240 for each DIRECTV HD Receiver; or $470 for each DIRECTV HD DVR Receiver that is not returned to DIRECTV or that is damaged when it is returned to DIRECTV as compensation for a portion of the expenses incurred by DIRECTV in establishing your account and providing you the DIRECTV equipment for your use. Visit DIRECTV.com or call 1-800- 531-5000 for details.
• Your receiver must be continuously connected to a land-based phone line to activate certain sports programming and to allow pay per view ordering by remote control.
• All ACH transactions are subject to settle the day after the order is placed.
• ARBITRATION. You and DIRECTV agree that both parties will resolve any dispute arising under this Equipment Lease Addendum, the DIRECTV Customer Agreement or any other addendum thereto, or regarding your DIRECTV programming service, through binding arbitration as fully set forth in the DIRECTV Customer Agreement.

#65 OFFLINE   w6fxj

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 05:28 PM

HD Impatient - Do you have a link to the DirecTV Lease thingy on www.bestbuy.com? I can not find it and the people in the Best Buy On-line help section swear up and down that the HR10-250 they offer on the web page is a direct SALE not a lease. I know the stores have the lease thing going but what about the on-line stuff?

I was able to BUY a DirecTV HR10-250 online from NewEgg.com for $409.99. I made sure this was an outright sale before I completed the order. However I had one heck of a time getting DirecTV to activate it as MY equipment. It took the better part of two hours and talking to many different people at different levels. But, once a guy in the authorization card section found out that DirecTV would STILL activate equipment purchased after March 1, 2006, it was done.

So, DirecTV CSR's do not know about this policy, but It does exist. DirecTV has no way to prevent retailers from selling DirecTV equipment at any price they feel is fair. There is still a lot of equipment in the retail pipelines that is being SOLD. DirecTV will activate that equipment, but the subscriber needs to know the policy.

#66 OFFLINE   ScoBuck

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 05:40 PM

HD Impatient - Do you have a link to the DirecTV Lease thingy on www.bestbuy.com? I can not find it and the people in the Best Buy On-line help section swear up and down that the HR10-250 they offer on the web page is a direct SALE not a lease. I know the stores have the lease thing going but what about the on-line stuff?

I was able to BUY a DirecTV HR10-250 online from NewEgg.com for $409.99. I made sure this was an outright sale before I completed the order. However I had one heck of a time getting DirecTV to activate it as MY equipment. It took the better part of two hours and talking to many different people at different levels. But, once a guy in the authorization card section found out that DirecTV would STILL activate equipment purchased after March 1, 2006, it was done.

So, DirecTV CSR's do not know about this policy, but It does exist. DirecTV has no way to prevent retailers from selling DirecTV equipment at any price they feel is fair. There is still a lot of equipment in the retail pipelines that is being SOLD. DirecTV will activate that equipment, but the subscriber needs to know the policy.


here's the link - then click on terms and conditions:

http://bestbuydtv.ge...ng_customer.asp

#67 OFFLINE   ScoBuck

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 06:01 PM

Hey Bill Wood - answer if you kindly will this hypothetical question...

Suppose later on this year when the new H20-250 (if that's the correct model) MPEG4 HD DVR is released, DirecTV says:

1) Subs leasing the H10-250 can upgrade for free or a nominal fee to the new box

2) Subs that acquired boxes after 3/1/06 and INSISTED that they wanted to own not lease will NOT get a break (trade-in credits or nominal upgrade cost) - at least unless they return the old equipment and accept the new lease terms

They certainly can't be happy that people are trying to get around their new policies. Doubtful that a person that insists on keeping the older box can get anywhere near the same deal as a lease customer that must return the DVR, or a purchased customer also willing to give it back - don't you agree?

This could all lead to you (and others) having to get yet another HD DVR shortly in order to capture MPEG4.

#68 OFFLINE   Wolffpack

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 10:24 PM

Hey Bill Wood - answer if you kindly will this hypothetical question...

Suppose later on this year when the new H20-250 (if that's the correct model) MPEG4 HD DVR is released, DirecTV says:

1) Subs leasing the H10-250 can upgrade for free or a nominal fee to the new box

2) Subs that acquired boxes after 3/1/06 and INSISTED that they wanted to own not lease will NOT get a break (trade-in credits or nominal upgrade cost) - at least unless they return the old equipment and accept the new lease terms

They certainly can't be happy that people are trying to get around their new policies. Doubtful that a person that insists on keeping the older box can get anywhere near the same deal as a lease customer that must return the DVR, or a purchased customer also willing to give it back - don't you agree?

This could all lead to you (and others) having to get yet another HD DVR shortly in order to capture MPEG4.


Are we now inventing our own policies for DTV? If so, how about:

3) If you already owned a HR10-250 prior to the creation of this lease program and that unit was purchased on a Wednesday, we owe you two units of equal or greater value.

I understand your point, but let's not get too far out there. If someone wants to own, cripe, how's that hurt you?

#69 OFFLINE   ScoBuck

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 08:17 AM

Are we now inventing our own policies for DTV? If so, how about:

3) If you already owned a HR10-250 prior to the creation of this lease program and that unit was purchased on a Wednesday, we owe you two units of equal or greater value.

I understand your point, but let's not get too far out there. If someone wants to own, cripe, how's that hurt you?


Doesn't hurt me at all (matter of fact I do own). But before I let you get in a fight with me also (from what I see at the top of this thread you also threw your two cents in on another post not directed to you and started an argument), I'll end this - gee whiz, for a person that has openly stated many opinions, sorry you were offended that I was asking for one. I see a lot of people around here asking others what they think. Seems like you don't mind at all responding and putting down others on on your terms (even when it is NOT you who was asked a question).

I just wanted to know if Bill would be put-off if they decide to treat lease customers different than purchase customers. Part of the original lease letter stated that one reason for the change was upgrade possiblilities and things like that. I think that it is a very distinct possibility that upgrades for people leasing will be handled differently.

My big question to YOU - since I was asking Bill Wood - and you decided to respond - why was it hurting you? I hope all see now that is is you is argumentative to new members. Damn, I only joined this week and you butted in on 2 people and were very rude.

#70 OFFLINE   cabanaboy1977

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 10:34 AM

I just wanted to know if Bill would be put-off if they decide to treat lease customers different than purchase customers. Part of the original lease letter stated that one reason for the change was upgrade possiblilities and things like that. I think that it is a very distinct possibility that upgrades for people leasing will be handled differently.



I wonder what they do with people who own and who have the protection plan. More so what they do when they run out of units to replace yours with. Will they still swap them for a like model or tell you sorry you have to lease on from us since we no longer have that one instock to swap it out with. Hopefully it won't happen but I can see it happening.

#71 OFFLINE   ScoBuck

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 10:44 AM

I wonder what they do with people who own and who have the protection plan. More so what they do when they run out of units to replace yours with. Will they still swap them for a like model or tell you sorry you have to lease on from us since we no longer have that one instock to swap it out with. Hopefully it won't happen but I can see it happening.


If it continues like in the past, they say right upfront when you call that they don't have to swap for an IDENTICAL unit, but a unit (new or reconditioned) that has at least all of the same features. I can't see that this would ever be a problem for them.

#72 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 10:46 AM

I wonder what they do with people who own and who have the protection plan.

I would hope that the protection plan included in the new pricing scheme.

More so what they do when they run out of units to replace yours with.

I would imagine that when they run out of serviceable DTiVos, you'll get a non-TiVo.

Will they still swap them for a like model or tell you sorry you have to lease on from us since we no longer have that one instock to swap it out with.

Has it been established that there is a difference in monthly rates between owned and leased receivers?

#73 OFFLINE   hiker

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 10:50 AM

I wonder what they do with people who own and who have the protection plan. More so what they do when they run out of units to replace yours with. Will they still swap them for a like model or tell you sorry you have to lease on from us since we no longer have that one instock to swap it out with. Hopefully it won't happen but I can see it happening.

I wondered the same thing but I don't think they have the right to change us over from "owned" to "leased" just because we get a defective replacement under the protection plan. I also found it odd that they reduced the protection plan charge from $7.99/mo for those of us with HD or DVR equipment down to $5.99/mo.

#74 OFFLINE   hiker

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 10:55 AM

... Has it been established that there is a difference in monthly rates between owned and leased receivers?

The net effect is there is no difference in the monthly charge for leased vs owned or a mix of the two. See thread here for a copy of terms and condition with an example.

#75 OFFLINE   w6fxj

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 12:38 PM

here's the link - then click on terms and conditions:

http://bestbuydtv.ge...ng_customer.asp


As best I can tell your link is to a Best Buy store web site and not www.bestbuy.com Nowhere on bestbuy.com is there a similar policy either linked or in their own terms and conditions.

According to the people who handle the online stuff the stores and www.bestbuy.com have different policies. On-line sells DirecTV advanced products, such as the HR10-250, outright. The stores only lease DirecTV equipment.

As to your other question, I doubt I will get DirecTV's new non-TiVo HD DVR under any circumstances. I am in the LA DMA and expect to use my DirecTV TiVo DVR's for at least another two years. Maybe by then DirecTV will have introduced something better than a MPEG4 HD version of the really bad R15!

The HR10-250 might be slow and a little temperamental, but it is the Best HD DVR out there.




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