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Local reception and the 942


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70 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   Gramps

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 06:50 AM

Here's a thought.

Dish provides CBS-East HD on the satellite. Is it possible this is causing the conflict? Maybe that is why the OTA HD cannot display guide info?

Also here in NYC market my CBS shows in lower case while the other OTA HD channels show upper case.

Just a thought


Our problem here isn't the program guide, we just don't get the channel at all.

#27 OFFLINE   Gramps

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 07:33 AM

Alright guys I live in Iowa Park, 13 miles North of Wichita Falls. I have a 411 receiver and a 6000 receiver, and I do not get channel 6 either. This problem started in the middle of March and I know 2 other people in Iowa Park which have the same problem. It's hard to believe it's the receiver as the 6000 has had no updates in many months and it does not receive the station any longer.

...

Bill


If you are certain there were no updates to the sw on your receiver, then this does shed another light on the problem. Those of us who have been discusing this all noted the problem started in mid-March and we did have an update at that time. I was not initially aware of the update and cannot be certain this happened the first time I turned the receiver on after the update, so it may just be coincidence. In addition, since there seems to be a lack of reports about this issue outside of Wichita Falls, it seems this may be indeed a local issue. The only thing reason I have trouble believing this is a station issue or local interference is because when I connect the same antenna & cable to the ATSC tuner in my TV, that channel is fine. The same is true when I brought in the TV from my RV and connected the Hisense tuner I bought at Walmart to my house antenna. From my experience, it is only my 942 and 622 that that cannot get this station. We also know that the model 211 and 811 receivers don't receive Channel 6-1. An acquaintance with a DirectTivo HD receiver also gets Channel 6-1 without problem. With the little info we have so far, it appears to be some obscure configuration or coding issue between Channel 6 and DISH's software. Since this is only affecting DISH customers, the Chief Engineer at Channel 6 doesn't have much to explore on his end. My recommendation is to call DISH to report the problem and don't take no for an answer. Insist that they open a ticket and forward it to engineering. Only after they get a number of separate reports will it move to the front burner and get some attention. At that time they may be able to assist Channel 6 in discovering the cause of the problem.

#28 OFFLINE   William Millar

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 09:14 AM

Gramps,
Let me clarify my post, my 6000 receives channel 6.1, with a reading of 85-90, but the bar is red not locked. My 411 receives 6.1 with a reading of 62-64, it locks the channel but the picture goes on and off.

I live in Iowa Park and my antennae is pointed 126 degrees (dead on) to the station/tower. I can get the station by pointing my antennae to 270 degrees and locking in, but then I do not get channel 3 or 18. If I'm on 270 degrees looking at the station with a reading/output of 62 I can turn my antennae back to the 126 degree location as my antennae is turning my signal will start going up to the high 90's for channel 6, and it will stay on the station until I switch channels and it will be gone again. I also know that the Allred Prison unit here in Iowa Park has frequency blockers, maybe somehow is causing the problem. Tony at Channel 6 said most of the problem seems to be centered in the Iowa Park/ Burkburnett area, also when Dish does an update on the receievers I do not beleive it updates over the air digital tuner as it is a separate unit. I'll be on later to check on the posts...thanks for your input. By the way I did read somewhere that Dish did change 1080I output recently, but I think this is if they are broadcasting local HD.



Bill

#29 OFFLINE   ebeeks

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 09:24 AM

Alright guys I live in Iowa Park, 13 miles North of Wichita Falls. I have a 411 receiver and a 6000 receiver, and I do not get channel 6 either. This problem started in the middle of March and I know 2 other people in Iowa Park which have the same problem. It's hard to believe it's the receiver as the 6000 has had no updates in many months and it does not receive the station any longer.

Bill

I tried your workaround and it did not work for me. Have you called KAUZ to report the issue? If you haven't, give them a call and ask for Tony Guess. He is the chief engineer. He is compiling a list of people in the area that has the issue. So far everyone that has reported the issue has a Dish brand receiver.

However, since this is only happening in our area it very well could be the station. It just doesn't explain why every other receiver I have tried is not affected. I am not an engineer, but it almost sounds like Dish closed a hole in their software that KAUZ was using. Similar to Windows Security patches.

Either way, I expect Dish and KAUZ to work together to get this resolved. One more week til CSI season is done. :(

#30 OFFLINE   William Millar

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 11:03 AM

I tried your workaround and it did not work for me. Have you called KAUZ to report the issue? If you haven't, give them a call and ask for Tony Guess. He is the chief engineer. He is compiling a list of people in the area that has the issue. So far everyone that has reported the issue has a Dish brand receiver.

However, since this is only happening in our area it very well could be the station. It just doesn't explain why every other receiver I have tried is not affected. I am not an engineer, but it almost sounds like Dish closed a hole in their software that KAUZ was using. Similar to Windows Security patches.

Either way, I expect Dish and KAUZ to work together to get this resolved. One more week til CSI season is done. :(



Try the center lead only off the antennae, and see if that does not make the station come on for you, do not screw the coax onto the receiver.


Bill

#31 OFFLINE   ebeeks

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 11:04 AM

Try the center leaf only and see if that does not make the station come on for you, do not screw the coax onto the receiver.


Bill

That's what I did. How long is the cable you are using? Mine is about 3ft.

#32 OFFLINE   William Millar

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Posted 13 May 2006 - 10:48 AM

Take your UHF remote antennae off the back of your receiver, and put it where your roooftop antennae is now, see if this will work. Your antennae should be pointing at channel 3 if you want to pick up the channel 6 digital. If you have it peeked out at 7.1 you will probably miss channel 6 as channel 3 and 6 antennae on Seymour Hwy and 7 and 18 are down near Randlett, there is almost 120 degree difference in location, if you need some help, just let me know I live in Iowa Park and would be glad to help you. I have worked on C-Band and off-air antennaes for many years, I do not do this for a living.




Bill

#33 OFFLINE   ebeeks

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Posted 14 May 2006 - 08:37 AM

Take your UHF remote antennae off the back of your receiver, and put it where your roooftop antennae is now, see if this will work. Your antennae should be pointing at channel 3 if you want to pick up the channel 6 digital. If you have it peeked out at 7.1 you will probably miss channel 6 as channel 3 and 6 antennae on Seymour Hwy and 7 and 18 are down near Randlett, there is almost 120 degree difference in location, if you need some help, just let me know I live in Iowa Park and would be glad to help you. I have worked on C-Band and off-air antennaes for many years, I do not do this for a living.




Bill

Still no go. My signal was 0 when I did that. I hooked up my rooftop and it gave me 65 for a signal strength.

#34 OFFLINE   William Millar

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Posted 14 May 2006 - 09:58 AM

I'm sorry it didn't work for you. It will be 2 months since I first started having the problems. I first reported it to the station on March 28, 2006, you would think they would have it fixed by now. The people down in DFW area are having the same problem with channel 8 digital, they either get it or they don't, and the station there apparently has done nothing about the problem, but now Dish has hooked them up over the air, and now thier stations are broadcast on the satellite.


Bill

#35 OFFLINE   ebeeks

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Posted 14 May 2006 - 06:28 PM

I'm sorry it didn't work for you. It will be 2 months since I first started having the problems. I first reported it to the station on March 28, 2006, you would think they would have it fixed by now. The people down in DFW area are having the same problem with channel 8 digital, they either get it or they don't, and the station there apparently has done nothing about the problem, but now Dish has hooked them up over the air, and now thier stations are broadcast on the satellite.


Bill

I am about to throw in the towel here and by an HDTV tuner card for my computer. Don't know any other way to watch and record HD since Dish does not support their hardware. I don't know what else to do. The station says Dish, Dish says the station. The only group left to complain to is the FCC. This sounds like a conspiracy. "Can't get your local channels anymore? Then subscribe to them from us!"

#36 OFFLINE   ebeeks

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Posted 15 May 2006 - 12:29 PM

Update!!!!

I made my weekly call to the station to see of there was any progress. Tony Guess, the chief engineer states that there is an issue with the alogorthim that decodes native 1080i and the Dish software. Also stated that the Dish development is working on the problem, but does not look like they are taking it too serious. He also told me that KERA, the Dallas PBS station is reporting the same issues as we are here. There isn't much we can do, but wait. Tony also stated that if a resolution wasn't reached in the near term the lawyers would have to get involved.

#37 OFFLINE   ebeeks

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 03:47 PM

Since we have not been able to resolve the issues on this forum, with the local station or Dish, I decided to take it to the next level. I issued a complaint at the FCC website http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/complaints.html I encourage each of you who have this issue to do the same. Everybody seems to think this is the other guys problem to fix and we are left in the lurch.

#38 OFFLINE   Gramps

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 11:01 PM

Try the center lead only off the antennae, and see if that does not make the station come on for you, do not screw the coax onto the receiver. Bill


I'm about at the end of the rope. I tried this, but get nothing. I'm in Burk so I'm about the same distance from Ch6 as you. The CE at Ch6 loaned me some attenuators to try, and they didn't help either.

#39 OFFLINE   Gramps

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 11:36 PM

My 942 is in a box, UPS label and all... The 622 is installed and guess what? The new receiver has the identical problem as the 942. Cannot get the local CBS affiliate HD OTA.

I was back on the phone with DISH again tonight. I think they sent me to the "back office" this time. The person I spoke with did acknowledge there is a problem ticket open with reception issues for this station, but it has been open since the 18th of March! I tried to get her to escalate the issue, but she could or would not. I then sent what I consider to be a tactful email to customer service. I must agree with [B]ebeeks[B], we're stuck in the middle and I know DISH isn't going to give me my money back. If I don't see some progress soon, I'll send a registered letter to Mr. Ergen. Should that fail, what other choice is there but to file a complaint with the BBB and/or the FCC? All we're asking is for DISH and the TV station to get together and figure out what went wrong 2 months ago and implement a solution.

There are two related shortfalls with the 622: It does not have an NTSC tuner like the 942 did. For someone with an "HD Ready" TV using a 622 as their tuner for OTA programming, they will not be able to get CBS in this market unless they subscribe to the satellite locals. The 2nd half of this really surprised me. The video produced by the satellite locals (digital?) is inferior to what I was getting with the NTSC tuner in the 942 and my rooftop antenna (analog!). :( On the plus side, the additional HD satellite channels available on the 622 produce astounding video. I assume most of this programming was HD from the start, no interpolation or upconverting.

#40 OFFLINE   LtMunst

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Posted 24 May 2006 - 06:34 AM

Should that fail, what other choice is there but to file a complaint with the BBB and/or the FCC?



While I understand your frustration, I do not see where getting the FCC involved would help. Dish is under no obligation whatsoever to provide OTA reception. It is an added convenience that works well for the vast majority of us.

If someone builds a website that works on Mozilla (Firefox) but somehow will not display properly on Internet Explorer, is it Microsoft's problem the code was written incorrectly? No. Same with this station. It is clearly a problem with their coding that they need to fix, not Dish.

#41 OFFLINE   ebeeks

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Posted 24 May 2006 - 07:59 AM

While I understand your frustration, I do not see where getting the FCC involved would help. Dish is under no obligation whatsoever to provide OTA reception. It is an added convenience that works well for the vast majority of us.

If someone builds a website that works on Mozilla (Firefox) but somehow will not display properly on Internet Explorer, is it Microsoft's problem the code was written incorrectly? No. Same with this station. It is clearly a problem with their coding that they need to fix, not Dish.


The problem is that it worked prior to the update Dish downloaded in March. The OTA receiver was a selling point for buying the receiver. Don't think for a minute you didn't pay for it. Plus it doesn't work unless you subscribe to Dish programming.

The reason I filed a complaint with the FCC was that neither party is very interested in repairing the problem. The only way I can receive CBSHD is to buy additional hardware when I should not have to.

This is a difficult situation to troubleshoot. Every other branded HDtuner on the market works fine with the local broadcast, only Dish branded receivers are affected. This makes one beleive the problem lies with Dish. At one point this was the only station affected. However, through my investigations I have found that KERA out of Dallas is experiencing the same issue and some stations in Denver as well.

#42 OFFLINE   Gramps

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Posted 24 May 2006 - 04:24 PM

...Dish is under no obligation whatsoever to provide OTA reception...


My comment re: the FCC was in response to ebeeks earlier post; personally I feel that the BBB is the next course should other routes to DISH fail to produce a resolution.

As I see it, the problem is that when DISH elected to include an ATSC tuner into their satellite receiver and advertised it as a solution to customers with HD Ready sets, so that the customer would not require the purchase of a separate tuner, they entered into an agreement, if not an implied contract. In addition, to get the EPG for the OTA channels, DISH requires a separate subscription to the satellite locals. I don't understand why someone might feel I'm not paying DISH so that I can receive the local HD channels. If we were in a fringe area, it could be argued that DISH cannot guarantee reception. I can assure you, this is not the case here.

Had the 942 I purchased directly from DISH not delivered on the OTA when it was installed, I could have returned it, skipped the additional monthly fee for the EPG, got a refund and been on my way. But months later, it appears that when software updates were downloaded, it unintentionally broke something that was working, something that we were and still are paying for. There are sometimes unintended consequences with any change. Some at DISH have admitted this problem has been documented, and that it has existed for over 2 months, but cannot say if, or when it will ever get fixed.

...It is clearly a problem with their coding that they need to fix, not Dish...

It is absolute fact that a Sony TV with a built-in ATSC tuner and an inexpensive Hisense ATSC set-top tuner both receive this station off the same antenna in my attic with excellent signal strength. I have both a 942 and now a 622, and neither will synchronize with this one channel at all. It is hard for me to come to the conclusion that this is not DISH's problem. I will agree that since we are not seeing others on the forum reporting the same problem in different markets, it is possibly some incompatibility in the data stream from the station that does not affect other brands of tuners.

All we are asking is for the engineers at DISH to get on a conference call with the local CBS affiliate to analyze what is wrong and fix it so that it works as it did before the mid-March update.

#43 OFFLINE   ebeeks

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 09:09 PM

Downloaded L287 and the problem still exists. I also called Dish again this week and they filed another "special report" Still waiting for a resolution. :(

#44 OFFLINE   William Millar

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 06:12 AM

Try this, switch your lead from your off air antenna in, to the antenna output, and see if you do not get channel 6. Let me know!!



Bill

#45 OFFLINE   ebeeks

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 08:02 AM

Try this, switch your lead from your off air antenna in, to the antenna output, and see if you do not get channel 6. Let me know!!



Bill


No change. Also, my other local channels disappeared when I tried it.

#46 OFFLINE   SaltiDawg

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 08:02 AM

While I understand your frustration, I do not see where getting the FCC involved would help. Dish is under no obligation whatsoever to provide OTA reception. It is an added convenience that works well for the vast majority of us.
...

You don't think that the FCC has standing in the design, operation, and ATSC implementation with TV tuners?:rolleyes:

Wait 'til FOX starts selling low-cost STB's that coincidentally don't receive ABC. :lol:

#47 OFFLINE   LtMunst

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 09:05 AM

You don't think that the FCC has standing in the design, operation, and ATSC implementation with TV tuners?:rolleyes:



You really think the FCC gives a rat's behind whether on not the OTA tuner in Dish's SATELLITE receiver box is any good? Don't hold your breadth waiting for the government to declare Dish in violation of FCC regs because it's tuner is not the best.

#48 OFFLINE   SaltiDawg

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 10:57 AM

You really think the FCC gives a rat's behind whether on not the OTA tuner in Dish's SATELLITE receiver box is any good? Don't hold your breadth waiting for the government to declare Dish in violation of FCC regs because it's tuner is not the best.

So, given one is dissatisfied with performance of the tuner for one OTA station, who would you suggest be contacted.

Oh, Joisey boy, you didn't answer my question. :rolleyes:

#49 OFFLINE   LtMunst

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 11:13 AM

So, given one is dissatisfied with performance of the tuner for one OTA station, who would you suggest be contacted.

Oh, Joisey boy, you didn't answer my question. :rolleyes:


I would suggest continuing to bug the station, as it is more than likely a coding problem. If that fails, then by all means complain to the FCC....about the station.

BTW....here in Joisey, all of our OTA stations work perfectly with the 942. I can pick up every station at 35 miles with a little RadioShack settop antenna. That's why I take complaints about crappy 942 tuners with a grain of salt.

#50 OFFLINE   LtMunst

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 11:47 AM

You don't think that the FCC has standing in the design, operation, and ATSC implementation with TV tuners?:rolleyes:


The FCC is involved in setting the standards for ATSC broadcast signals. Regarding end-user hardware...the FCC's regs are limited to the usual standards of acceptable emissions and the need to accept certain interference signals. There is no Qualitative mandate. Some radios receive signals great....some suck. Not an FCC issue.

Now your example of a tuner that "coincidentally" does not accept a certain network's signals is a different story.




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