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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Typical signal strength?


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52 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   scott T

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 12:27 PM

Get ready for this ...

http://www.dbstalk.c...ead.php?t=61238
Scott T

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#42 OFFLINE   D-Bamatech

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 12:43 PM

Get ready for this ...

http://www.dbstalk.c...ead.php?t=61238



AHHHHHHHHH... lmao

Told ya a type faster than i read > THANK YOU btw.

So the winguard is the 101... Ahhh no wonder.. the 90's.

What does his at-9 show on the 101... lol.. i bet 77-84 somewhere.

Now that you guys got me to thinking. I do re-call seeing 86% one time i believe.. But never anything in the 90's period. Nominal is 84% though for sure.

So in otherwards my posts hold true. he "db-ed up" a FEW points with the Winguard. BUT the H-20 is still holding back on its display cause if that Winguard was on a d-11 that sig would def hit 99-100%= no doubt on the 101. Heck i do it here in bama on the 18" rd. Every trans 1 is 98% and sometime evens (2) will hit 99. A P3 will hit 100% if ya play with 32nd's of inch here on a d-11 for that matter even now and then.

Thanx again for showing me that .. now i dont feel lost or like a dumb ass.. he he..

Looks like he got rain fade 1 too many times and went to a better cure. LOL.

Nice. id like to know how its (2 dishes involved) wired per tv and if the winguard is the dominate dish or a single lined to tv. I think i understand where he s got the AB in the mix though.

Nice set up your right... thanx one more time!

#43 OFFLINE   Cap'n Preshoot

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 03:37 PM

Yes, the Winegard is shooting at the 101 - and with only a 1.5db beamwidth it was so touchy about alignment that it was necessary to have it precision-aligned with a Drake 1000A meter, yielding more accurate results than your garden variety dish-aimer, I feel it even out-performs a BirdDog when it comes down to brass tacks of being absolutely dead on.

The A/B switch toggles the H20 receiver between the AT9 and the Winegard DS3101 purely for rain fade reasons, which is what that other thread was all about. Folks kept whining about rain fade and I simply wanted them to see what it took for us to solve it. It wasn't magic, just an $85 dish and more coax. ;)

The A/B switch idea came about because when we added the AT9 all of a sudden we needed a 2nd cable run for the OTA antenna. Since the old Winegard feed was still in place it was only logical to utilize that and diplex the OTA into that line then peel it off downstairs ahead of the A/B switch and then use the big signal from the Winegard as a backup when rain washes out the AT9. Bottom line is that the AT9 is a compromise and as such performs as you would expect any compromise antenna to perform. If you are festidious about maximizing signal performance on every bird, the only way to do that is with an antenna farm of individual dishes and, given enough real estate to hang 'em all, the bigger the better.

Signal levels on the 101 bird from the AT9 are in the mid to upper 80s, with TP28 (Houston locals) burying the pin at 100). The point of this post was to show the nay-sayers that the H20 signal levels were not limited to just the 70s and 80s. Hook that sucker up to a high performance dish and you suddenly see 90s and 100s.

The H20 will display whatever signal level you give it. They're displaying 70s for folks because that's what's coming down from the antenna. Don't blame the H20.

By the way, the AT9 should have gain figures which closely approximate the Gainmaster product, but given the substantially lower levels being seen from AT9s hooked up to H20 receivers I don't think that's going to be the case. Hopefully the manufacturers will post those performance figures before I die.

#44 OFFLINE   Cap'n Preshoot

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 04:04 PM

Cap'n Preshoot, I love your setup. I'm planning on adding the Winegard 76cm dish. I wish could add the 100cm, but I would have a problem hiding it. I'm on a corner lot. :nono: Its like have three front yards.


No offense Scott, but I wouldn't waste 75¢ on a 76cm dish. The 3dB you'll give up versus the DS3101 will be sorely missed. 3dB is half power. You're going to sacrifice half your signal level going with 76cm vs 100cm

Screw the homeowner's assn. Read the FCC rule. The rule allows up to a 1 meter dish which is what the DS3101 is.
The Cable and Satellite TV industry does not hold the patent on alienating its customers, but COMCAST in particular has succeeded in making an art form of it, garnering them the distinction of "Most Universally Despised" of all PAY-TV providers in the industry.

#45 OFFLINE   D-Bamatech

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 07:01 PM

I bet if ya hoo up a d-11 to that winguard . you'll peg it out on the 101 on trans 1 and 2. Try is for arguement sake.

Then tell me its Not in the H-20. Why would a d-11 on the SAME dish show 98% and the h-20 in the same rm /same cable.. (all same) show a lesser sig (tops at 80's).

I cant agree w/ ya on the >" dont blame the H-20" sorry. these hands and feet walk it everyday. TANGIBILITY IS MORE THAN words can ever be.

Then again I SEE EVERY new production adv rec do the Same exact thing.

HEck right here loose i 5 "points" between a r-15 and a Gxe tivo.

Oh and those B-dog's and those meters. Ha.. i think they are for Wusses. takes No art. the meter does the work and any child can spin the dish till "locked" flashes... lmao.

Never believed in the "cheating devices" = I'm old school (and OLD lol) inclometer and point /peak with a needle and whine. though i do use a digisat digital on the "basic installs".

Summarry.. your Wingaurd took a 84-86% sig & eleveted it. H-20 STILL holding ya by on screen meter cuase ill lay money on the d-11 will peg that thing out.

Further more so there's No confusion .. its a ON screen meter thing w/ the H-20. Not the sig coming in. Its internal on the meter on the r-15 also remem?!? Those numbers mean jack in otherwards and are not reliable imo..

Senerio. : large 3 story hm with 18 prewire cbls in attic. Cust wants r-15. = R-15 will NOT produce "back fed tone" to attic(most times). I always use a d-11 to feed the tone through the cbls to eleimate "the walk and chase" of the destination of where the r-15 will be located.(ie find which cble). Before the switch and placement of the r-15 the d-11 puts 98% on the screen. I unscrew cables and place the r-15 in the same EXact place. that number goes to 93-95%. SAme exact senerio with a H-20 will put that *onscreen meter at 84%. SO what is the verdict and logic????? hmmmmm

Dont think i havent played diagnostic on this mess.. (lol).. I also have a compulsive disorder... LMAO
Its the reading meter of the adv rec's OR sig depletion within the IRD. Its not dish related as far as corelation to those on screen meters because the same cabl in the same EXacy location on a d-11 will show a extremely higher sig. Oh and the
guy" i called with the H-20 (2nd time i saw one and discovery of sig reading).. He's on developement technology as a job. SO.. What I SEE and he said tells me the h-20 meter is a joke of acuracy. =simple.

Do me a favor > hook the d-11 or d-10 (which ever ya got) to that winguard and see where ive been.. he he

BTW.. thanx for the explainations and such . Im too cocky to feel like a dumb ass. ya know... he he eh he.

#46 OFFLINE   Cap'n Preshoot

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 07:28 PM

Ya know sump'n D_Bamatech, you got me to thinking.

This evening we got hold of the Drake 1000A sat meter again and decided to set about the task of putting the "super-tweak" on that AT9.

Well, seems there's something rotten in denmark besides the cheese here. I think we actually might have discovered something. I think that combo LNB (99-101-103) on the AT9 is not all that it appears and may be kind of a sick puppy.

Absolute best we could ever bring in on the AT9 dish trying to tweak-in on the 101 (using transponder 1 as our reference) was an '84' and buddy I mean we worked for that.

But satisfied beyond any doubt that our mast was dead-level plumb and 84 was the best we were going to see on 101, we next retweaked the skew on the 119 and nailed a solid 100 on transponders 26, 27, 28, 30 and 32. Hmmmm.. something's wrong here, very wrong. Back to 101/TP1 and we're still at 84. Nudge left, nudge right, nudge up, nudge down, nope, 84 is it.

So grab hold of this... We next tried an 18" round dish sitting on a tripod in the driveway with a standard dual LNB and sighted-in on the 101 once more. This time TP1 gave us a solid 92.

Back on the roof, reconnected the coax to the AT9 and rechecked 101 TP-1 and it was still on 84. Back to the little dish in the driveway and still on 92.

Well now, isn't that special?

All of this is very unscientific, but this test suggests (to me at least) that they're doing something inside that triple LNB that isn't quite Kosher. And if true, the phones at DTV customer service are going to ring. If the main beam (101) is that much "down" from a plain old standard 18" single LNB dish then subscribers with new AT9s are going to be screaming.

In case anyone should be curious, the AT9 in this test has a sticker on the back that says "WNC" which I think refers to the manufacturer.
The Cable and Satellite TV industry does not hold the patent on alienating its customers, but COMCAST in particular has succeeded in making an art form of it, garnering them the distinction of "Most Universally Despised" of all PAY-TV providers in the industry.

#47 OFFLINE   D-Bamatech

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 07:42 PM

SEE now the 84 aint a figment of this mind .. Now is it.. Thats the "special Number" .. Must be. Lol

Do the d-1/d-11 at the H-20 location FED BY THE winguard.. tell me what ya see...

12 yrs brother.. all day everyday.. im Not really lost.. i promise! LMAO

Never a HSP or A msp. This Nmae i carry IS QUITE known. National IC awards to boot. NOT 1 service call in the whole tenure. NOT 1 No call No show> You are talking to the REAL one. brother.. trust me.

Now if ya start all that talk of mhz and BS.. then Illl ask for laymans terms i admit. otherwise.. i drive a SOLID train.. he he..

PS.. try to get the 84% with a non cheating meter. Lol.. see what Art it takes. ha.... im talking 32nd's and 64th brother... And yep your right .. ya peged 119 out didnt ya.. ..Hey ya need a job!!!??? lmao

You just did what MOST of these HSP techs just watch for 2 days in a training rm on a video screen. They cant do it in the field.. So maybe ya should come to work for US... LMAO again.

Oh yeah tht nifty little NICE quote ya got.. Well YOU ARE LIEING... ha hahaha.. Your adjectives and display of intellect (NON dish related) told me tooo much to believ that noise(quote w/ cherrio reference.).

ALSO.. i beleive just as you do also on the LNB deal. that thing doesnt do the job as it should. First impresion when i unbocked the First AT-9 was > "what in the world or these "micky mouse lnb combiner leads gonna do and how dang long will they last..".. lol. The AT-9 is a abortion in its design. Its "chunk" with all that UNneeded weight is a joke. Those fine adjustment "knobs" are foolish poorly constructed BS!. Heck i dont even use that BS 9fine adjust) at all!. = ole school remem. Another thing EVERY brass bolt on this thing is a poor poor excuse for bolt composition. Its cheap sorry construed metal. They will break in a heart beat!.

Went behind a HSP last saturday. :> (3) At-9's were on site. ALL where destroyed except one(which retailer drop shiped NEW) . WHY? Untrained underpaid idiots not knowing what they are doing. They had over tighten stuff and not "pulled the pin" on the fine adjestment and broke everything .. LOL. Now mind ya this is a brand new home and had 3 HSP techs try to do this thing. .. the 2nd one drove a 2' pole throught the mans underground phone line also in the process. Man had NO phone OR TV.. cause of a HSP// (hey that rhymes LMAO)!)

Have you ever scene the training video that DTv submitts to do the AT-9? Want a BIG BIG laugh?

http://www.solidsign...tall_videos.asp..

watch the 5 parts... he he.. I think they over talked it huh? Imagine a 19 yr old NEW green tech watching this mess for 2 days.. Then turned loose in the field WITH A DRILL in a "pretty white van" after 3 days to 3 weeks riding in a van with somebody. I cant help but laugh.. Its shameful. DTv wanted to go All in house for control. Well i tell them on the phone ON EVERY HSP re-vamp or call that a national retailer gives me. = By damn this it what DTV wanted and By damn this is what they got.. "..=. 10 hr$ idiots.

#48 OFFLINE   Cap'n Preshoot

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 08:17 PM

You just did what MOST of these HSP techs just watch for 2 days in a training rm on a video screen. They cant do it in the field.. So maybe ya should come to work for US)


Nope, thanks all the same.
I did a 10-year stint up North (ITASKA, ILL) as a Region Engr for Cox Cable many years ago and decided then and there I'd had enough of dealing with the public and shoveling snow to last me a lifetime. I'm still in communications today but with a major player in the energy "bidness". I'll have 20 in with these folks next month and just turned 60, so in a couple more years "me an momma" (as Jerry Clower would have said) are fixin' to hang up the spurs, get ourselves a 5th wheel trailer, hitch it up to a shiny new Dodge 1-ton Diesel dually and drive off into the sunset. Wheee!
The Cable and Satellite TV industry does not hold the patent on alienating its customers, but COMCAST in particular has succeeded in making an art form of it, garnering them the distinction of "Most Universally Despised" of all PAY-TV providers in the industry.

#49 OFFLINE   D-Bamatech

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 08:45 PM

Nope, thanks all the same.
I did a 10-year stint up North (ITASKA, ILL) as a Region Engr for Cox Cable many years ago and decided then and there I'd had enough of dealing with the public and shoveling snow to last me a lifetime. I'm still in communications today but with a major player in the energy "bidness". I'll have 20 in with these folks next month and just turned 60, so in a couple more years "me an momma" (as Jerry Clower would have said) are fixin' to hang up the spurs, get ourselves a 5th wheel trailer, hitch it up to a shiny new Dodge 1-ton Diesel dually and drive off into the sunset. Wheee!


Do the d-11/d-10 to the winguard for me and ill shut up. i promise. he he.
That should close this book for ya. i know it did me within ONE week Of the H-20 introduction . Then came the At-9 which ... well.. im no fan no matter what the laymen of this board think about the thing. i hear all the gloification and BS.. but i guess thats why they are layman " TV watchers" and not technicianss.. HUH??? ha ha..

The AT-9 design is pure pittiful! > overweighed poorly hardwared and CHEAP design. this new one they got coming they say is better with considerable weight reduction.. we'll see...

Well your tenure deserves the rest and relaxation.. Ive still got a 4 in the front of my age. And just so ya know. i dont just do DTV. I do all grey rd / oval things. Major Commercial jobs ect. 2300 ft of plenum rg-6 going in one now to be exact which is XM radio for 10 operating rms in a regional med center.. So nah im not the adverage DTv guy. I do national DTV fullfillment and the tenure and stellar rep and record put my name on ALOT of call lists. (hehe) . If i wanted to be real grandious id provide a link here where my name is IN lights on the web right now for a 37 state award. Im a fireman for the dish world it seems.. lmao.. i guess. i put out fires for the self contrued arsonsits of DTv managemnet.. .. he he. And get this i do Service work for Sears and that abortion of a stacked LNB system called Dish network.. So yeah im well rounded. Hey but ya know what still tickles me?.. when i do a Internet dish and the thing downloads at 1.6 from the sky.. I still smile like a kid on christmas when that happens. Unbelievable at times still to this day.

PPPS: thanks for the convo.. i enjoyed it. Nice to talk with a VET ya know. There's NOT many left that can hold your type of convo. So Kudo's!

Just do the d-11 or some Norm stand rec to the winguard for me.. I wont sleep well till ya do.. (he he)

#50 OFFLINE   Cap'n Preshoot

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Posted 31 July 2006 - 06:45 AM

You're going to have lots of sleepless nights then fella because I do not have a D11 or D10. What I have is the H20 (new) and an old Hughes Platinum HD E86 and a couple old RCA 420s, all of which pretty much agree (within 4 or 5 points) of each other.

However, I think our discussion is beginning to drift away from the importance of the discovery made late yesterday afternoon when we determined, to my satisfaction anyway, that the new AT9 5-LNB dish, seems to have a problem with signals from the 101 main beam. In fact it might be worthwhile to open up a separate thread just on the topic of AT9 signal performance.

In the meantime if someone else can do a similar comparison, comparing the signal levels from a properly aligned AT9 on the 101 bird to the same signal from a standard 18" round dish, at the same site using the same receiver we might be able to start building a case against the desirability (or advisability) of having the AT9, particularly in those areas where OTA reception is available.

Sometimes New isn't always better.

#51 OFFLINE   scott T

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Posted 31 July 2006 - 07:37 AM

In the meantime if someone else can do a similar comparison, comparing the signal levels from a properly aligned AT9 on the 101 bird to the same signal from a standard 18" round dish, at the same site using the same receiver we might be able to start building a case against the desirability (or advisability) of having the AT9, particularly in those areas where OTA reception is available.

Sometimes New isn't always better.



ok, here is is ....

http://www.dbstalk.c...ed=1#post620052
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#52 OFFLINE   mailiang

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Posted 31 July 2006 - 10:49 PM

Hey Cap..I live at the New Jersey Shore. I just switched from Dish Network. I think I've only lost the signal about five times a year mostly during thunderstorms. With the new 3 LNBF DTV multi dish and R15 I'm running anywhere from 81 to 100 on 101 on a clear day. I have experienced rain fade during thunderstorms, but signal comes back pretty quickly. it's usually due to the dense cloud cover which occurs before the heavy rain. Can this dish use further tweaking?

1-8 90 82 96 88 87 90 81
9-16 88 88 88 96 90 87 92 84
17-24 90 100 91 92 90 86 91 86
25-32 87 95 92 0 93 86 91 83

Ian

#53 OFFLINE   Cap'n Preshoot

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 05:26 PM

Hard to say unless you try. Those signals look pretty good tho.




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