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Guest Message by DevFuse

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AT9 Signal


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19 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   stratman

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 12:34 PM

Using my acutrak 22 meter I am reading high 90's at the dish (AT9).
I connect the meter at the receiver and get 60's.
The coax cable is about 100'. Would I benefit buying a signal amp?
Since the signal is strong at the dish am guessing he coax length is kill some of the signal strength.

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#2 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 01:44 PM

The H20 shows LOW readings....

On my H20 I would show 70's
But the HR20 shows 90's
Same cable
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All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views of DIRECTV

#3 OFFLINE   stratman

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 02:03 PM

Earl,
I am refering to the acutrak 22 numbers not the H20 numbers on my TV.
Acutrak 22 reads 95 to HI at the dish. Should the acutrak number inside at the other end of the coax be the same or real close to what it reads at the dish?:confused:

#4 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 02:15 PM

I would think it would...

But I don't know enought about the Acutrak and how it does it's readings...
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#5 OFFLINE   D-Bamatech

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 02:34 PM

Earl,
I am refering to the acutrak 22 numbers not the H20 numbers on my TV.
Acutrak 22 reads 95 to HI at the dish. Should the acutrak number inside at the other end of the coax be the same or real close to what it reads at the dish?:confused:


Hit the menue on the accutrac and turn ON the attenuation.

That will keep the meter from going to Hi T. You can tweak alot better that way. Notice the meter reading will cut in half. You can now see every little adjustment on that "black bar". Also in the SAME menue hit 13 volt.

hope this helps.. .. when your checking the on screen IRD (rec) meters.. check it on 101, 110, 119, on a STANDARD rec. Forget that h-20 and its screwy meter.

edit: reread post. You WILL see a drop in the numbers.. its normal to a degree from just reading what ya wrote anyway. = coax reading as 2 diff ends.

After you confirm the sig on the STANDARD rec. Go to the h-20 and let it go all the way through the onscreen things. When it comes up "not found = net 99/ 103> PUSH continue Dont fix.. Then when is varifies what it is going to.. RESET THE REC (red button).. in the first blue screen (welcome) immediately push 0-2-4-6-8 ONE TIME ONLY.. it will do the Dowload... then repeat the set up process.. When this is over.. It will reciever the HD local network.

#6 OFFLINE   stratman

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 03:36 PM

Hit the menue on the accutrac and turn ON the attenuation.

After you confirm the sig on the STANDARD rec. Go to the h-20 and let it go all the way through the onscreen things. When it comes up "not found = net 99/ 103> PUSH continue Dont fix.. Then when is varifies what it is going to.. RESET THE REC (red button).. in the first blue screen (welcome) immediately push 0-2-4-6-8 ONE TIME ONLY.. it will do the Dowload... then repeat the set up process.. When this is over.. It will reciever the HD local network.



Yes I understand the attenuation option. I have no problems getting my HD local network. Signal on my standard rec is around 85.

What I don't understand is why my acutrak 22 readings are lower at the receiver that at the dish. 96 on the acutrak at the dish. 68 on the acutrak inside the house at the receiver end. Is a 28 point drop normal? If so from what?

I'm using CommScope 5765 RG-6 HDTV solid copper core cable.

#7 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 03:37 PM

Are they direct runs? Or is there a multiswitch involved?
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#8 OFFLINE   stratman

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 03:40 PM

Just a plain direct run from the dish to receiver. No splices or multi switches.

#9 OFFLINE   D-Bamatech

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 04:18 PM

Just a plain direct run from the dish to receiver. No splices or multi switches.


How far did ya say the run is?.. Your using GOOD cble btw..

That drop by meter is TOO much IMO. Some noticeable diff is Normal though.

Are you sure your "dialed in" to the max attainable sig? OUTSIDE = attentuation tweak ect. IF so.. then if the run is pushing the limit.. Go to the ph book and look UP DOW electronics.. see if they are in your area. ASK about a INLINE amp.
REAL cheap btw.

ALSO that 85 your seeing is either not a good allignment or either a distance deal best i read anyway.
IF you just installed this thing yourself brother and youve got this far.. well YOUVE DONE GREAT IMO so far.

If EARl wouldnt (lol) get onto me id match you up with the HSP perspective to boot.

( wink for EARL)

l

#10 OFFLINE   stratman

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 04:46 PM

How far did ya say the run is?.. Your using GOOD cble btw..


The run is about 100'. I'll try putting a small inline amp and see what happens.

Is a Sonora DBS 14 dB Gain Dual Line Amplifier a good one? Will it work with the AT9 and HD20?

Thanks!!

#11 OFFLINE   D-Bamatech

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 05:02 PM

The run is about 100'. I'll try putting a small inline amp and see what happens.

Is a Sonora DBS 14 dB Gain Dual Line Amplifier a good one? Will it work with the AT9 and HD20?

Thanks!!


HMMM... ive never even heard of that brand to honest.. so i cant give an aswer to be honest.
I
Have you EVER done sat's before.. BTW? Your NOT the adverage layman as it is quite obvious. (pat on back).

Did you install this thing from scratch yourself?.. if so need a job?:) (JK).

#12 OFFLINE   stratman

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 05:38 PM

HMMM... ive never even heard of that brand to honest.. so i cant give an aswer to be honest.
I
Have you EVER done sat's before.. BTW? Your NOT the adverage layman as it is quite obvious. (pat on back).

Did you install this thing from scratch yourself?.. if so need a job?:) (JK).


Yes I installed it from scatch myself. Last time I installed one was my 18" phase 1 dish about 8 yrs ago. I've read alot and learned alot from this great forum!

No I don't need a job. Thanks!:lol:....... I'm a registered electrician by trade.

Just wondering if I need a signal amp or a voltage booster or both.
I think the voltage is fine its the signal drop I can't understand. Guess the only way to find out is try something and see what happens.

#13 OFFLINE   D-Bamatech

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 05:48 PM

Yes I installed it from scatch myself. Last time I installed one was my 18" phase 1 dish about 8 yrs ago. I've read alot and learned alot from this great forum!

No I don't need a job. Thanks!:lol:....... I'm a registered electrician by trade.

Just wondering if I need a signal amp or a voltage booster or both.
I think the voltage is fine its the signal drop I can't understand. Guess the only way to find out is try something and see what happens.


Electrician.. that explains it.. NICE JOB!.

you can check voltage on the accutrac ya know.. but im sure its fine.. unless ya got a severe bend in the cable or something.


Just get the inline amp.. and see what happens..

Have ya taken you finger with the meter connected (WITH DISH TIGHT) and pulled against the reflector in all directions to see if ya see a sig increase in ANY direction on the meter?

Did ya do this thing on a 2' OD Pole mt Btw? = 100ft away ect.is why i ask.

if so did ya put dial pins in the pole? I always do.. it will never spin or move again. ITS there for ever! ( i drill through the pole and then put a 3/8 piece of all thread or bolt all the way through and nut it on both sides.. concrete set.. and BAM.. a real install has occurred!)

Another thing may i ask WHY.. you installed this yourself? and didnt call DTV.
LOL.. come on now i want a Honest reflection without any words of mine attached... Tradesman to tradesman..:)

PS.. did ya use ANY of that fine adjustment MICKY MOUSE composed mess.. ? Look at that threaded rod and the weight it pulls.. watch it bend befor your eyes huh? LOL

#14 OFFLINE   stratman

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 06:01 PM

Another thing may i ask WHY.. you installed this yourself? and didnt call DTV.
LOL.. come on now i want a Honest reflection without any words of mine attached... Tradesman to tradesman..:)


I like to do things myself that way I know it's done right:D (at least most of the time) and the way I want it installed. After reading about some of the D* install jobs here I said no thanks I'll do it.

#15 OFFLINE   Cap'n Preshoot

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 06:34 PM

The difference in readings at the dish vs 100 feet of cable down the way is normal and expected. The lower reading at the end of the cable is due to the loss or attenuation of the cable. Your sat frequencies range from 950 to 1450 Mhz. At 1000 Mhz the rated loss per 100 feet is approx 7 dB. At 1450 Mhz that loss will be higher, so it's going to depend on which of the transponders you're looking at. However, rule of thumb for satellite use is 7 dB per 100 ft of RG6.

For lower loss use larger coax, such as RG11 (special connectors needed). For the same 100' distance RG11 has only 4.3 dB of loss. The signal strength at the end of 100' of RG11 would therefore be approx twice as strong.

Compare to DC voltage and current losses in electrical wire. Heavier wire = less power loss.

Calculations are logrithmic, however, so twice as much signal will not correllate to twice as high of a meter reading.

Yes, an inline amplifier module will help.
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#16 OFFLINE   D-Bamatech

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 06:45 PM

The difference in readings at the dish vs 100 feet of cable down the way is normal and expected. The lower reading at the end of the cable is due to the loss or attenuation of the cable. Your sat frequencies range from 950 to 1450 Mhz. At 1000 Mhz the rated loss per 100 feet is approx 7 dB. At 1450 Mhz that loss will be higher, so it's going to depend on which of the transponders you're looking at. However, rule of thumb for satellite use is 7 dB per 100 ft of RG6.

For lower loss use larger coax, such as RG11 (special connectors needed). For the same 100' distance RG11 has only 4.3 dB of loss. The signal strength at the end of 100' of RG11 would therefore be approx twice as strong.

Compare to DC voltage and current losses in electrical wire. Heavier wire = less power loss.

Calculations are logrithmic, however, so twice as much signal will not correllate to twice as high of a meter reading.

Yes, an inline amplifier module will help.


WELL there ya go.. from the engineer side of things.. Heck id have read the box on the cbl or look that mess up and then i wouldnt know half of what CAPT does by far:lol:

Btw. guy YOU did right in installing this thing yourself. GREAT JOB again.

That sig loss is normal to a degree(by meter reading). i can see the same thing in VERY short runs even from a 18 rd. Yet the onscreen meter will show 98% every time.

#17 OFFLINE   boba

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 10:02 PM

May I suggest that you just connect to a receiver and see what the receiver shows for signal strength. No the Sonora 14dB amp will not work with the AT9. A google search shows that the amplifier is rated from 950-2400 mhz but the AT9 uses 250-2150 mhz.

#18 OFFLINE   stratman

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 09:54 AM

May I suggest that you just connect to a receiver and see what the receiver shows for signal strength. No the Sonora 14dB amp will not work with the AT9. A google search shows that the amplifier is rated from 950-2400 mhz but the AT9 uses 250-2150 mhz.


I do have it connected. Receiver reads between 50 & 75 on the 110 - 119 LNB.
I think the terk 20db bia-20 inline amp should work. Rated for 54-2150MHZ

#19 OFFLINE   Cap'n Preshoot

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 10:15 AM

I do have it connected. Receiver reads between 50 & 75 on the 110 - 119 LNB.
I think the terk 20db bia-20 inline amp should work. Rated for 54-2150MHZ


My own experience with several of the TERK brand items is that they make a pretty good wheel-chock for railroad cars and concrete trucks, but little else.

Their amplifiers are unstable and prone to go into oscillation with lots of 3rd order harmonics (proven on a spectrum analyzer)
Their MultiSwitches run scalding hot with output levels varying as much as 10 dB between adjacent ports.
Their OTA antennas work about as well as a set of bedsprings hung from a tree.

Just recalling my own personal experience with the brand. Your results may vary.

#20 OFFLINE   D-Bamatech

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 05:04 PM

My own experience with several of the TERK brand items is that they make a pretty good wheel-chock for railroad cars and concrete trucks, but little else.

Their amplifiers are unstable and prone to go into oscillation with lots of 3rd order harmonics (proven on a spectrum analyzer)
Their MultiSwitches run scalding hot with output levels varying as much as 10 dB between adjacent ports.
Their OTA antennas work about as well as a set of bedsprings hung from a tree.

Just recalling my own personal experience with the brand. Your results may vary.


Correct and aggreed. ANYthing terk is not PRofessional quality iMO. The bottom and thats why its sold at national retail stores.

Their MSW are known (as cpt said) to run EXtremely HOT. a simple NON powered 4x3 will keep your hands warm in the winter. LOL


skywalker has a 5 OR 40 (choice) -2150 mhz 20 db gain ( noise figure at 4 db max) in line amp for under 3 dollars (my price by catalog) BUT it IS NOT water proof.
Needs to be in an enclosure box.

These Are nice. OR like i said look UP DOW electronics in the ph book and they carry *eagle aspen* (i prefer over the skywalker btw).

BTW.. ive got a box FULL of Terk mess .. drop shippers sent this mess for a while and i refused to put it in.. i replaced it with my own personal stock with Eagle aspen and/or perfect vison products. Is junk..

I just RE-read cpt's post.. LOL.. agreed again on their antenna .. lmao ( btw cpt your a nut!) That clip on thing is a JOKE also and the bed springs WILL do a better job.




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