Jump to content

Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

HR20: Hard Drive Upgrade


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
212 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Gotchaa

Gotchaa

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 179 posts
Joined: Jan 25, 2006

Posted 26 August 2006 - 06:27 PM

I don't recommend anyone do this unless they own their HR20 and understand that you are on your own as far as D* is concerned so don't call them if you have issues or break your box, you are pretty much toast.

This was intended as a proof of concept for an upgraded hard drive, not intended to be a guide or procedure to do so.

I figured since the SATA port is disabled for the external port, and I had a HR20 that hadn't been activated yet I'd see if I could upgrade the HD.

I opened up the box, unplugged the SATA cable from the internal HD controller and active onboard controller, and plugged in the external SATA cable to controller 1.

I then plugged in my external SATA HD, which I had hoped would just work out of the box, with the external port, powered up and waited. Soon enough, it booted up, I went through the setup menu, activated the device and all is well:

External 300GB SATA HD running off controller 1, internal HD disconnected.

I have HD programs recording for the next 24 hours on
both tuners now to the external SATA HD.

I also have an internal 500GB HD SATA drive on hand which I plan to likely take back and replace with a 750GB SATA drive, as it seems that in all likelihood it should work.

What I don't know:

-If I can take the external SATA drive and plug it into my other HR20, reverse the controller cable, reboot and see the recorded program I have on the drive. (This would allow Sneaker Net for MRV until it becomes available)

-If it requires an unactivated or formated HD to work the first time

-What will happen if I plug the external sata cable back to controller 2 and reboot.

-What will happen if I plug both internal and external sata cables back into the controllers and attach both external and internal drives and reboot.

-If I can use all the space on the HD (300, 500, or 750GB SATA)

-What happens when I reboot the HR20 without the HD attached or powered on

-What happens when I plug the orginal HD back in and reboot.

Interestingly enough, I have not received even the initial software update, I am guessing because I am actively recording on both streams.

I also noticed the sound effects option was not grayed out, so I was able to tab to it, these are the settings for screen navigation volume level. Needless to say, there is no menu sound even though it's accessible, likely why it was grayed out with the initial update.


I am going to wait till I get some more recorded material on these devices and test some of these scenarios out.


Now if D* had just released the box with the external sata port enabled I wouldn't be tinkering. In all likelihood D* is going to enable the external port for expanded space, so my efforts are just to find out if it can be done.

All this is pretty interesting to me and likely explains why the box is so quick, it appears recorded programming is all that's stored on the HD, which is good and bad if this turns out to be true.

Attached Thumbnails

  • hr20-sata-cable reversed.jpg
  • hr20-sata-external HD.jpg


#2 OFFLINE   dvrblogger

dvrblogger

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 562 posts
Joined: Jan 11, 2005

Posted 26 August 2006 - 08:35 PM

I don't recommend anyone do this unless they own their HR20 and understand that you are on your own as far as D* is concerned so don't call them if you have issues or break your box, you are pretty much toast.

This was intended as a proof of concept for an upgraded hard drive, not intended to be a guide or procedure to do so.

I figured since the SATA port is disabled for the external port, and I had a HR20 that hadn't been activated yet I'd see if I could upgrade the HD.

I opened up the box, unplugged the SATA cable from the internal HD controller and active onboard controller, and plugged in the external SATA cable to controller 1.

I then plugged in my external SATA HD, which I had hoped would just work out of the box, with the external port, powered up and waited. Soon enough, it booted up, I went through the setup menu, activated the device and all is well:

External 300GB SATA HD running off controller 1, internal HD disconnected.

I have HD programs recording for the next 24 hours on
both tuners now to the external SATA HD.

I also have an internal 500GB HD SATA drive on hand which I plan to likely take back and replace with a 750GB SATA drive, as it seems that in all likelihood it should work.

What I don't know:

-If I can take the external SATA drive and plug it into my other HR20, reverse the controller cable, reboot and see the recorded program I have on the drive. (This would allow Sneaker Net for MRV until it becomes available)

-If it requires an unactivated or formated HD to work the first time

-What will happen if I plug the external sata cable back to controller 2 and reboot.

-What will happen if I plug both internal and external sata cables back into the controllers and attach both external and internal drives and reboot.

-If I can use all the space on the HD (300, 500, or 750GB SATA)

-What happens when I reboot the HR20 without the HD attached or powered on

-What happens when I plug the orginal HD back in and reboot.

Interestingly enough, I have not received even the initial software update, I am guessing because I am actively recording on both streams.

I also noticed the sound effects option was not grayed out, so I was able to tab to it, these are the settings for screen navigation volume level. Needless to say, there is no menu sound even though it's accessible, likely why it was grayed out with the initial update.


I am going to wait till I get some more recorded material on these devices and test some of these scenarios out.


Now if D* had just released the box with the external sata port enabled I wouldn't be tinkering. In all likelihood D* is going to enable the external port for expanded space, so my efforts are just to find out if it can be done.

All this is pretty interesting to me and likely explains why the box is so quick, it appears recorded programming is all that's stored on the HD, which is good and bad if this turns out to be true.


very ub=nlikely you can move drives between boxes as unlike DISH and otehrs NDS /DIRECTV encrypt all content on the drive. It'll be interesting to see if you have any luck ? Where you able to read the drive in a PC ?

#3 OFFLINE   Wally_Gator

Wally_Gator

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 118 posts
Joined: Nov 28, 2005

Posted 26 August 2006 - 08:42 PM

Reading the drive in a PC might be hard unless you have linux variant on the PC.
I could be wrong but don't most of these systems use a Linux kernal for speed.
As far as reading th content. It has been said the the Sat stream is sent directly to the drive and not decrypted. You would need the Decryption hardware in the receiver to decode the content.

#4 OFFLINE   geoliquid

geoliquid

    Mentor

  • Registered
  • 38 posts
Joined: Aug 22, 2006

Posted 26 August 2006 - 08:57 PM

Reading the drive in a PC might be hard unless you have linux variant on the PC.
I could be wrong but don't most of these systems use a Linux kernal for speed.
As far as reading th content. It has been said the the Sat stream is sent directly to the drive and not decrypted. You would need the Decryption hardware in the receiver to decode the content.


That makes sense. The stream would have to be encrypted. How else can they let you record a pay per view movie but only charge you if you watch. I would think they would be required to protect that data. Very cool!

#5 OFFLINE   Gotchaa

Gotchaa

    Legend

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 179 posts
Joined: Jan 25, 2006

Posted 26 August 2006 - 09:12 PM

Reading the drive in a PC might be hard unless you have linux variant on the PC.
I could be wrong but don't most of these systems use a Linux kernal for speed.
As far as reading th content. It has been said the the Sat stream is sent directly to the drive and not decrypted. You would need the Decryption hardware in the receiver to decode the content.





Just to clarify, I am not trying to read the recorded data off the external HD, rather I was referring to moving the external HD from one HR20 to another HR20. That's all.

I won't be discussing anything related to hacking the recorded data streams.

#6 OFFLINE   Wolffpack

Wolffpack

    Banned User

  • Banned User
  • 4,642 posts
Joined: Jul 29, 2003

Posted 26 August 2006 - 09:28 PM

If you're interested here's some work I did with the HD on a R15. I'm sure there are differences but this may provide some info:

http://www.dbstalk.c...ead.php?t=54346
Series 2 DTivos 6.2 x 5
Series 2.5 DTivos 6.1a x 2
HR10-250s 6.3b: x 2

#7 OFFLINE   NurseDave

NurseDave

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 91 posts
Joined: Aug 20, 2006

Posted 26 August 2006 - 10:13 PM

Now if D* had just released the box with the external sata port enabled I wouldn't be tinkering. In all likelihood D* is going to enable the external port for expanded space, so my efforts are just to find out if it can be done.


Oh man, thinking about adding another HD to it just makes me all droolly. :stickman:

#8 OFFLINE   Gotchaa

Gotchaa

    Legend

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 179 posts
Joined: Jan 25, 2006

Posted 26 August 2006 - 10:26 PM

If you're interested here's some work I did with the HD on a R15. I'm sure there are differences but this may provide some info:

http://www.dbstalk.c...ead.php?t=54346


I am curious now, there was nothing on the external HD, so the device must have initialized it and created the HD partition.

If this is accurate, then my guess would be that some information about the drive must be stored on the device. It's possible after initalization, upgrading to another HD from scratch without resetting memory may not work, a lot of assumptions being made here. Installing a larger drive may not work without doing a dd, and from what it sounds like doing a dd from a smaller drive to a larger one requires repartitioning to get the larger space.

I will have to wait till tomorrow to do some more testing, at which point I can attempt connecting the drive to a linux system if I can get drivers for sata pci card to work.

I wonder if there is a jumper setting to erase the onboard device's memory.

#9 OFFLINE   Gotchaa

Gotchaa

    Legend

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 179 posts
Joined: Jan 25, 2006

Posted 27 August 2006 - 01:04 AM

I went back and read the thread Wolfpack linked to, and Jim Barton's TiVo-lution article, very good read. http://acmqueue.com/...owpage&pid=381.

From the sounds of it, it make sense why the 300GB external SATA Seagate worked, it's exactly the same size.

I am just going to stop recording now and throw in the 500GB drive and see what happens.

It appears that the HD size is limited in ROM, so it won't matter if it boots up fine. But let's see what happens, perhaps it's not restricted to 300GB. How many hours of Mpeg2 HD should I be able to store about 60 hours?

#10 OFFLINE   Gotchaa

Gotchaa

    Legend

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 179 posts
Joined: Jan 25, 2006

Posted 27 August 2006 - 02:19 AM

I went ahead and removed the external HD, replaced the sata internal and external cables, and removed the internal Seagate drive. I was able to put in a virgin Maxtor 500GB drive jumpered to 150gb transfer rate, reboot and it came back up no problems, formatted and ready to go for recording.

I was immeditately prompted for a software download, which I cancelled. After thinking about it, I am going to let the software update download, as it would eventually happen anyhow, and this would be a better test of how it would be running after testing. Who knows maybe they've locked or unlocked storage capcity (doubt it).

The plan is to record two HD Mpeg2 channels all flagged to KEEP until I delete for the next 30 hours, so my Monday morning, I should know how much recording time I have.

#11 OFFLINE   Wally_Gator

Wally_Gator

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 118 posts
Joined: Nov 28, 2005

Posted 27 August 2006 - 10:44 AM

Now the question is, what is the partition size on that 500gb hd?
Does it partition to 300GB or to a max size? Big question..
One would wonder what type of filesystem is on that HD?

While you may be able to put a larger drive in the system, if it is set to only partition to 300gb, you would never use the additional space... If it used a filesystem compatable with Windows, you could use Partiton Magic to expand the Partition..
Just thoughts...

#12 OFFLINE   Wolffpack

Wolffpack

    Banned User

  • Banned User
  • 4,642 posts
Joined: Jul 29, 2003

Posted 27 August 2006 - 10:59 AM

The partition size doesn't necessarily mean more recording space (at least on the R15).

The R15 comes with a 160GB drive with a 160GB FAT32(ish) partition. If I place a 250GB drive in my R15 and perform a format I get a 250GB FAT32(ish) partition. But even with that the R15 stops recording at 100 Hrs. No increase.
Series 2 DTivos 6.2 x 5
Series 2.5 DTivos 6.1a x 2
HR10-250s 6.3b: x 2

#13 OFFLINE   Gotchaa

Gotchaa

    Legend

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 179 posts
Joined: Jan 25, 2006

Posted 27 August 2006 - 11:23 AM

So far I've got 16hrs of Mpeg2 HD, and 82% diskspace free..

#14 OFFLINE   P Smith

P Smith

    Mr. FixAnything

  • Registered
  • 19,765 posts
  • LocationMediterranean Sea
Joined: Jul 25, 2002

Posted 27 August 2006 - 11:51 AM

Gothchaa, will be faster to fillout using MPEG-4 channels.

#15 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

Earl Bonovich

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Registered
  • 30,092 posts
Joined: Nov 15, 2005

Posted 27 August 2006 - 11:52 AM

Gothchaa, will be faster to fillout using MPEG-4 channels.


Actually it will take longer if you are recording MPEG-4 channels..
As it is a tigher compression: MPEG-4-HD is smaller them MPEG-2 HD
Earl - Gotta Love Karma

DIRECTV employee since April 2008.
All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views of DIRECTV

#16 OFFLINE   P Smith

P Smith

    Mr. FixAnything

  • Registered
  • 19,765 posts
  • LocationMediterranean Sea
Joined: Jul 25, 2002

Posted 27 August 2006 - 11:55 AM

Well, then record two HD channels :); ah - will be interesting to see difference in size for MPEG-2 and MPEG-4.

#17 OFFLINE   Wolffpack

Wolffpack

    Banned User

  • Banned User
  • 4,642 posts
Joined: Jul 29, 2003

Posted 27 August 2006 - 12:42 PM

So far I've got 16hrs of Mpeg2 HD, and 82% diskspace free..

I'd stay with the MPEG2 HD recordings. Easier to add up the hours and see how that corresponds to the size available. On the HR10 one hour of MPEG2 HD takes up about 6.1 GB of HD space. This is based on Extreme Engineering and Sunrise Earth. If you start mixing SD/HD MPEG2 and HD MPEG4 it's going to be impossible to tell exactly how much storage you have.

Based your figures above, 16hrs of MPEG2 HD would be close to 100GB. How large of a drive did you put in? 500GB?

Does anyone know the actual rating of HD MPEG2 and HD MPEG4 hours on the HR20? Also, how much of the drive is reserved for VOD?
Series 2 DTivos 6.2 x 5
Series 2.5 DTivos 6.1a x 2
HR10-250s 6.3b: x 2

#18 OFFLINE   Gotchaa

Gotchaa

    Legend

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 179 posts
Joined: Jan 25, 2006

Posted 27 August 2006 - 12:52 PM

I'd stay with the MPEG2 HD recordings. Easier to add up the hours and see how that corresponds to the size available. On the HR10 one hour of MPEG2 HD takes up about 6.1 GB of HD space. This is based on Extreme Engineering and Sunrise Earth. If you start mixing SD/HD MPEG2 and HD MPEG4 it's going to be impossible to tell exactly how much storage you have.

Based your figures above, 16hrs of MPEG2 HD would be close to 100GB. How large of a drive did you put in? 500GB?

Does anyone know the actual rating of HD MPEG2 and HD MPEG4 hours on the HR20? Also, how much of the drive is reserved for VOD?


500GB is the size, Maxtor Drive, which is louder than the Seagate. Does Maxtor still have the amset quiet flag?

I am recording two HD Mpeg 2 channels, HDNet (which may have more bandwidth allocated per stream), and Showtime-HD. I started at about 2:30AM this morning, which means around 8 or 9 AM Monday morning, I should be completly full with about 60 or so hours of recordings. I've tagged all programs to keep until I delete.

6.1 GB per hour would mean about 50hrs recording time for a 300GB drive, and 80 hours for a 500GB time. I've seen reported that you get about 50hrs with HR20 with Mpeg4 out of the box. If your estimates are correct then I would need to schedule an addtional 20 hours, which would take me out to 7PM Monday evening.

I had been using an estimate of about 8GB per hour for Mpeg2

#19 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

Earl Bonovich

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Registered
  • 30,092 posts
Joined: Nov 15, 2005

Posted 27 August 2006 - 01:23 PM

According to previous reports:

30hrs MPEG-2
50hrs MPEG-4
Earl - Gotta Love Karma

DIRECTV employee since April 2008.
All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views of DIRECTV

#20 OFFLINE   Wolffpack

Wolffpack

    Banned User

  • Banned User
  • 4,642 posts
Joined: Jul 29, 2003

Posted 27 August 2006 - 01:37 PM

So if a 300GB drive is expected to record 30hrs of MPEG2 one could expect 50hrs of MPEG2 on a properly formatted 500GB drive. So 16 hrs out of 50 would be 32% utilization yet his test is showing 18% utilization.

Gotchaa, are you recording individual shows or blocks of time? Also, have you reviewed MYVOD to make sure you're getting complete recordings?
Series 2 DTivos 6.2 x 5
Series 2.5 DTivos 6.1a x 2
HR10-250s 6.3b: x 2




spam firewall