Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

Use the Sun to Site New Satellite Dish


  • Please log in to reply
130 replies to this topic

#81 OFFLINE   golf4dj

golf4dj

    Cool Member

  • Registered
  • 12 posts
Joined: Oct 06, 2007

Posted 12 October 2007 - 02:32 PM

Anyway, I took a picture (see attached). Definately have some tree limbs in the way of sat 119. It is probably not quite as bad as the calculator says because the sun is actually 2 degrees lower than the sat. But I definately have some trees in the way.

That branch is really high, I hope I can get to it. Also, you can see that my window is pretty small, I just hope I don't have issues with Sat 99 (I couldn't be home today to check it at the proper time).

Just thought I would share.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Tree Blockage.JPG


...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#82 OFFLINE   jimrobinette

jimrobinette

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 61 posts
Joined: Aug 31, 2007

Posted 12 October 2007 - 04:52 PM

If that were the exact position of the sun (az angle) I would bet you could get a signal. Granted, the tree will block some of the signal, I bet if you can see the sun, you can get some signal. I am always amazed at how dishes are mounted that a signal can still get to the dish.

Jim

Anyway, I took a picture (see attached). Definately have some tree limbs in the way of sat 119. It is probably not quite as bad as the calculator says because the sun is actually 2 degrees lower than the sat. But I definately have some trees in the way.

That branch is really high, I hope I can get to it. Also, you can see that my window is pretty small, I just hope I don't have issues with Sat 99 (I couldn't be home today to check it at the proper time).

Just thought I would share.



#83 OFFLINE   litzdog911

litzdog911

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 11,648 posts
  • LocationMill Creek, WA
Joined: Jun 23, 2004

Posted 12 October 2007 - 05:17 PM

If that were the exact position of the sun (az angle) I would bet you could get a signal. Granted, the tree will block some of the signal, I bet if you can see the sun, you can get some signal. I am always amazed at how dishes are mounted that a signal can still get to the dish.

Jim


Especially in the winter :)

Seriously, tree leaves can cause total blockage of the signal, especially when they're wet. And when it's windy the signal will jump like crazy.
HD DVRs: HR34-700; HR24-500; (2) HR20-700 + WD eSATA 1TB drive/Antec MX1 case; HR21-700; HR21-200 w/AM21
Receivers: H25-500 HD Receiver; H21-100 HD Receiver
Mobile Devices: Nomad

Additional equipment configuration details

Sun & moon help site your satellite dish


#84 OFFLINE   golf4dj

golf4dj

    Cool Member

  • Registered
  • 12 posts
Joined: Oct 06, 2007

Posted 12 October 2007 - 07:33 PM

Especially in the winter :)

Seriously, tree leaves can cause total blockage of the signal, especially when they're wet. And when it's windy the signal will jump like crazy.


Yea, I am getting signal, however I think that the tree limb is in the way as I am only registering in the low 60s on that sat (119) and when it rains just a little I get total signal loss while the other sats do just fine.

I don't have many options to move the dish so I have to figure out how to get that limb down. I am concerned that when D comes to install the new slim line that he may saw I have no LOS and refuse to install.

#85 OFFLINE   248 F1

248 F1

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 159 posts
Joined: Sep 22, 2007

Posted 13 October 2007 - 06:54 PM

Yea, I am getting signal, however I think that the tree limb is in the way as I am only registering in the low 60s on that sat (119) and when it rains just a little I get total signal loss while the other sats do just fine.

I don't have many options to move the dish so I have to figure out how to get that limb down. I am concerned that when D comes to install the new slim line that he may saw I have no LOS and refuse to install.


Where were you in relation to your existing dish when you took the photo?

I agree with jimrobinette, you'd be surprised how much signal will slip past those leaves. Can you go higher with the mast?
DirecTv since '97
AU9-S w/WB68 > HR20, H20, H10, Samsung TS-360, H21 > Psyclone HDMI selector > (2) 46" Sony Bravia > (1) Sharp 19 LCD < Sony PS3, < Toshiba HD-A2, > Pioneer VSX D814 > Motorola Bluetooth and Pioneer IR Headphones

#86 OFFLINE   inflames72

inflames72

    Cool Member

  • Registered
  • 19 posts
Joined: Oct 11, 2007

Posted 13 October 2007 - 08:03 PM

ok, so is the application still good, cause i have dtv coming monday, and according to that site, it says at 4pm on oct 14th, or have i passed the premium days?

#87 OFFLINE   litzdog911

litzdog911

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 11,648 posts
  • LocationMill Creek, WA
Joined: Jun 23, 2004

Posted 14 October 2007 - 12:48 AM

ok, so is the application still good, cause i have dtv coming monday, and according to that site, it says at 4pm on oct 14th, or have i passed the premium days?


It's still good. The sun is ~1-deg below the actual satellite locations now, but should still be close enough for siting your dish.
HD DVRs: HR34-700; HR24-500; (2) HR20-700 + WD eSATA 1TB drive/Antec MX1 case; HR21-700; HR21-200 w/AM21
Receivers: H25-500 HD Receiver; H21-100 HD Receiver
Mobile Devices: Nomad

Additional equipment configuration details

Sun & moon help site your satellite dish


#88 OFFLINE   golf4dj

golf4dj

    Cool Member

  • Registered
  • 12 posts
Joined: Oct 06, 2007

Posted 16 October 2007 - 06:51 PM

Where were you in relation to your existing dish when you took the photo?

I agree with jimrobinette, you'd be surprised how much signal will slip past those leaves. Can you go higher with the mast?


Picture was taken right next to the dish with camera resting on it. BTW - when I took the photo I was receiving signals on 119 mostly in the 50s with some 60s. No issues with picture quality. However, the least amount of rain caused issues.

Since I took the picture I rented a 40 ft ladder and lopped off the limb that was blocking the sun in my prior picture. I now have mid to high 90s across the board on 119. Scheduled for new slimline install tomorrow. I should have no issues with the install as long as the installer is willing to get on the roof.

#89 OFFLINE   jimrobinette

jimrobinette

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 61 posts
Joined: Aug 31, 2007

Posted 16 October 2007 - 06:58 PM

Let us know how the slimline install goes!

Picture was taken right next to the dish with camera resting on it. BTW - when I took the photo I was receiving signals on 119 mostly in the 50s with some 60s. No issues with picture quality. However, the least amount of rain caused issues.

Since I took the picture I rented a 40 ft ladder and lopped off the limb that was blocking the sun in my prior picture. I now have mid to high 90s across the board on 119. Scheduled for new slimline install tomorrow. I should have no issues with the install as long as the installer is willing to get on the roof.



#90 OFFLINE   HIPAR

HIPAR

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 749 posts
Joined: May 14, 2005

Posted 16 October 2007 - 09:53 PM

It's best to have the beam clear the nearest obstacle by a few feet. I determined that with a web based Fresnel zone calculator.

--- CHAS
But I don't want to go among mad people

#91 OFFLINE   islander66

islander66

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 97 posts
Joined: Oct 16, 2007

Posted 17 October 2007 - 03:55 PM

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but the 5NLB doesn't point directly at 110.

I was concerned about this and the second installer said the 110 was right at the sun (this was on Oct. 11th.) I even looked through his compass.

#92 OFFLINE   litzdog911

litzdog911

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 11,648 posts
  • LocationMill Creek, WA
Joined: Jun 23, 2004

Posted 17 October 2007 - 04:25 PM

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but the 5NLB doesn't point directly at 110.

I was concerned about this and the second installer said the 110 was right at the sun (this was on Oct. 11th.) I even looked through his compass.


Correct. The 5-LNB is aimed at 101-deg W, unlike the 3-LNB dish that's aimed at 110-deg W. None of that really matters, though, unless you have clear line-of-site from the dish location to all 5 of DirecTV's main satellites at 99, 101, 103, 110 and 119-deg W. And some folks also need to "see" 95-deg W (International channels) or 72.5-deg W (for some city's local channels).
HD DVRs: HR34-700; HR24-500; (2) HR20-700 + WD eSATA 1TB drive/Antec MX1 case; HR21-700; HR21-200 w/AM21
Receivers: H25-500 HD Receiver; H21-100 HD Receiver
Mobile Devices: Nomad

Additional equipment configuration details

Sun & moon help site your satellite dish


#93 OFFLINE   SteveInNC

SteveInNC

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 65 posts
Joined: Oct 08, 2007

Posted 18 October 2007 - 01:33 AM

I just wanted to say "thanks" to the OP. I found this thread the day before the calculator showed that the sun would be in position for the LOS to the DTV birds from my house (at various times throughout the day). It also happened to be a day that I was home for vacation :) I had had problems seeing a Dish bird from my previous mount point due to a tree. Expecting similar problems with DTV, the above information allowed me to find a different point in my yard that I can (theoretically) see the DTV birds. I verified the general information using the DishPointer site too. The acid test is in about five hours when the installer shows up...

#94 OFFLINE   litzdog911

litzdog911

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 11,648 posts
  • LocationMill Creek, WA
Joined: Jun 23, 2004

Posted 18 October 2007 - 08:23 AM

I just wanted to say "thanks" to the OP. I found this thread the day before the calculator showed that the sun would be in position for the LOS to the DTV birds from my house (at various times throughout the day). It also happened to be a day that I was home for vacation :) I had had problems seeing a Dish bird from my previous mount point due to a tree. Expecting similar problems with DTV, the above information allowed me to find a different point in my yard that I can (theoretically) see the DTV birds. I verified the general information using the DishPointer site too. The acid test is in about five hours when the installer shows up...


You're welcome!
HD DVRs: HR34-700; HR24-500; (2) HR20-700 + WD eSATA 1TB drive/Antec MX1 case; HR21-700; HR21-200 w/AM21
Receivers: H25-500 HD Receiver; H21-100 HD Receiver
Mobile Devices: Nomad

Additional equipment configuration details

Sun & moon help site your satellite dish


#95 OFFLINE   SteveInNC

SteveInNC

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 65 posts
Joined: Oct 08, 2007

Posted 18 October 2007 - 09:07 PM

As it turns out, this actually saved my install :D. I had used the sun position from Oct 9 to sight the birds for my location. I found one or two spots in my front yard (groan) that appeared to see the appropriate spots in the sky. I have big oak trees to the west in my and my neighbors' yards. A roof mount was not an option.

The installer came out and I mentioned that I had used the the above technique to find an ideal spot, but I think the technicalities of orbital mechanics were lost on him. He used an inclinometer and picked another place in the yard, near where I had originally had a dish (and a Dish), but had run into LOS problems. He's the expert, and had the appropriate tool, so I let him use his spot.

After all of the aiming, wiring, et al, we got everything but 119 - no signal. Big trees were just along the edge of that LOS. I reiterated that I had seen good LOS from a particular spot. He countered that there was a big tree in the arc of the azimuths to the birds from that spot, but I pointed out that the rays cast towards the specific orbital positions were clear LOS (I didn't describe it that way though, given the audience :) ). He called his boss and asked if the tree wouldn't be a problem. The boss said that it would. I told him I'd make it worth his while to try one more time (post hole, concrete et al). We rerouted the cables, which hadn't been buried yet, and he reset the dish at my location. After aiming, we had all of the birds. "Well, you taught us something today. What was that website?" I spotted him forty bucks.

I question the signal strength on some specific transponders, but in looking around here, it appears that some are naturally low/null in any case. My video signal has been fine on every channel I've tried, both standard and HD. This thread gave me the background to stick to my guns, and I got a successful install as a result. Now let's hope it really sticks. Thanks again.

As an aside, where I live has been under an extreme drought for most of the summer. It's been weeks since we've had measurable rain. When the installer showed up at 10:00, it began to rain, and continued sprinkling for the whole time that we were doing the install. As soon as we were done, the rain stopped...

#96 OFFLINE   rwbuck

rwbuck

    Mentor

  • Registered
  • 54 posts
Joined: Sep 25, 2006

Posted 21 October 2007 - 06:01 PM

Today I used this tool to check my line of sight. I live on the north side of a ridge with many tall trees. Many years ago I was a beta tester for starband and I was able to pick it up (along with the sat tv). I had full sun on 99, 101, 103, and 119. 110 was partially blocked by the top of a large oak tree. 99, 101, and 103 were on one side of the tree and 119 was on the other side. Can someone please educate me on how these birds work? Do I need to be able to see everyone of them? As always, I appreciate the help fom the members of this. The knowledge here is amazing!

#97 OFFLINE   litzdog911

litzdog911

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 11,648 posts
  • LocationMill Creek, WA
Joined: Jun 23, 2004

Posted 21 October 2007 - 06:09 PM

If 110-deg W was only partially blocked, you might still be OK. Especially since the sun is now actually a couple of degrees lower than the actual satellite positions. This satellite beams a few of the nationwide HD channels, including HBO-East, Showtime East, Universal HD, TNT-HD, ESPN-HD, and HDNet Movies.

You can find out what channels are beamed from each satellite here ....
http://www.lyngsat.c...es/america.html

Note that your DirecTV installer might balk at installing without a clear line-of-sight to all 5 satellites.
HD DVRs: HR34-700; HR24-500; (2) HR20-700 + WD eSATA 1TB drive/Antec MX1 case; HR21-700; HR21-200 w/AM21
Receivers: H25-500 HD Receiver; H21-100 HD Receiver
Mobile Devices: Nomad

Additional equipment configuration details

Sun & moon help site your satellite dish


#98 OFFLINE   sooner13

sooner13

    New Member

  • Registered
  • 2 posts
Joined: Feb 12, 2008

Posted 12 February 2008 - 05:24 PM

Hi, I have a 3 lnb dish running a SD DVR. If I want to put a HD DVR on this can I use a 2 lnb dish, as a second dish, to get the 2 new satellites? I live in Oklahoma. If I can do this what would be the settings for the second dish. Thanks.

#99 OFFLINE   jwd45244

jwd45244

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,510 posts
Joined: Aug 18, 2006

Posted 12 February 2008 - 05:29 PM

Hi, I have a 3 lnb dish running a SD DVR. If I want to put a HD DVR on this can I use a 2 lnb dish, as a second dish, to get the 2 new satellites? I live in Oklahoma. If I can do this what would be the settings for the second dish. Thanks.


You can't
-- Jim D.
DirecTV sub. since 1998
Slimline w/ SWM LNB---- (mounted on CommDeck) ----> SWM Power Inserter -----> CM4002IFD Diplexer
Winegard OTA Antenna ------------------> CM7777 OTA Amplifier ----------------> CM4002IFD Diplexer
CM4002IFD Diplexer ----> STS-4 splitter ----> HR20-700 - Vizio VO32L, HR20-700 - SDTV, HR21-200 (w/ AM21) - Vizio VX42L, HR21-200 - SDTV; CM4001IFD as splitting diplexer on all legs; All networked

#100 OFFLINE   sooner13

sooner13

    New Member

  • Registered
  • 2 posts
Joined: Feb 12, 2008

Posted 12 February 2008 - 05:37 PM

You can't


So, I have to use a Slim line 5 lnb?




Protected By... spam firewall...And...