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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Doing a self install? Read...


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46 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   cybrsurfer

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 02:04 PM

For those of you whom like to do it yourself please keep in mind:

When considering pre-wiring your home, make sure your RG6 is rated to atleast 3000MHz (3GHz). You can purchase this RG6 at Home Depot or Loews, since this is all they will sell. Not all RG6 is the same in capacity. Cable companies like Comcast use "Britewire" brand RG6 which is only rated for 1000MHz (1GHz), this will not work with Satellite TV. The copper core of the RG6 is a little bit larger for Satellite versus Cable Television. The RG6 will have the rating printed on the cable itself, for capacity. If the RG6 doesn't have anything printed on it, then it will not work for Satellite! Assume if not printed on the cable that it's only rated for 1000MHz (1GHz). Also keep in mind RG59 is not rated for satellite use at all since it only is rated for upto 1000MHZ.

Also keep in mind that the new MPEG4 receivers (H20 & HR20) should not run more than 100 feet from the AT-9 to the receiver. Older receivers will work up to 200 feet, but not the new HR20 and H20's.

It is very difficult to properly align the AT-9 without a proper satellite meter. It can be done without, but make sure you have the patience to do it!

Refer to channel 578 for tips on installation. :)
2 HR20-700S (0xef) [Owned/Factory: MFG 8/29/2006&10/08/2006]
1 HR10-250 (6.3a-01-2-357) [Owned/Factory MFG 5/2006]
AT-9
I'm impartial to Dish/Echostar,DirecTV,Verizon FiOS or Cable. I have no bias as to giving information to members of the many forums on DBSTalk.

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#2 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 02:06 PM

Also be advised that DirecTV specifies RG6 with a solid copper center conductor, instead of copper clad steel, for MPEG4 use with the AT9 dish.

Carl

#3 OFFLINE   kvitense

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 02:12 PM

It is very difficult to properly align the AT-9 without a proper satellite meter.


I agree with MOST of your post. Very valid and accurate information, EXCEPT for this one statement. In my opinion, it is not very difficult at all to properly align the AT9 with only the on-screen guide.

See this thread for further details:

http://www.dbstalk.c...ead.php?t=66175

Yes, you need to be patient and yes, you need to have a plumb mast, but if you follow the instructions exactly, I personally believe it is quite easy, especially if one has a bit of mechanical/technical aptitude.

#4 OFFLINE   PoitNarf

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 02:14 PM

you need to have a plumb mast


That should have been: "you need to have a plumb mast"

#5 OFFLINE   kvitense

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 02:18 PM

That should have been: "you need to have a plumb mast"


Ahhhhhhh......isn't that what I DID say?

#6 OFFLINE   glennb

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 05:07 PM

I'll probably install my AT9 tomorrow. I'm sure it'll be fine as long as I follow all the steps in the instructions.

#7 OFFLINE   cybrsurfer

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 06:10 PM

I'll probably install my AT9 tomorrow. I'm sure it'll be fine as long as I follow all the steps in the instructions.


I'm confident with the right attitude and confidence you'll be fine. Don't rush take your time... just follow the instructions. :)
2 HR20-700S (0xef) [Owned/Factory: MFG 8/29/2006&10/08/2006]
1 HR10-250 (6.3a-01-2-357) [Owned/Factory MFG 5/2006]
AT-9
I'm impartial to Dish/Echostar,DirecTV,Verizon FiOS or Cable. I have no bias as to giving information to members of the many forums on DBSTalk.

#8 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 08:00 PM

3 GHz is overkill - you'll pay for non usable premium, 2150 MHz is enough.

#9 OFFLINE   cybrsurfer

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 08:45 PM

3 GHz is overkill - you'll pay for non usable premium, 2150 MHz is enough.


Your right about only needing up to 2150MHz, but the minimum now you can buy is either 3000MHz or 1000MHz... so just get the 3GHz. The cost is the same regardless of the frequency capacity.

DirecTV installers are using the 3000MHz grade cable now... atleast that's what they used on my install...
2 HR20-700S (0xef) [Owned/Factory: MFG 8/29/2006&10/08/2006]
1 HR10-250 (6.3a-01-2-357) [Owned/Factory MFG 5/2006]
AT-9
I'm impartial to Dish/Echostar,DirecTV,Verizon FiOS or Cable. I have no bias as to giving information to members of the many forums on DBSTalk.

#10 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 07 October 2006 - 11:27 AM

Well after reading the diagram I must retract my note and should tell about other possible sweep range of RG-6 50-3500 MHz.

#11 OFFLINE   SParker

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 11:19 AM

My Dad just ran the new cable that the D* guy installed with the lawnmower. :( I just bought some RG6 rated at 2.8GHZ so that will be okay I hope..

#12 OFFLINE   litzdog911

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 11:41 AM

My Dad just ran the new cable that the D* guy installed with the lawnmower. :( I just bought some RG6 rated at 2.8GHZ so that will be okay I hope..


Yes, that should be fine. How long is the cable run?
HD DVRs: HR34-700; HR24-500; (2) HR20-700 + WD eSATA 1TB drive/Antec MX1 case; HR21-700; HR21-200 w/AM21
Receivers: H25-500 HD Receiver; H21-100 HD Receiver
Mobile Devices: Nomad

Additional equipment configuration details

Sun & moon help site your satellite dish


#13 OFFLINE   chdwil

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 11:53 AM

Question, the run from the dish is rg-6 that direct installed. But, from the multiswitch to the tv they used the existing r59. I have had no problems using this setup as the installer stated would be the case. So if it has to be RG-6, why is my system working? I have an hr20 and h20.

#14 OFFLINE   SParker

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 11:56 AM

Yes, that should be fine. How long is the cable run?


Less than 25 feet.

#15 OFFLINE   james2006

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 12:53 PM

I am still using old RG6 on one of my DVR runs from my original self install in 1997. Anyone know what the standard cable was back then? (purchased at radio shack)...I can't find any sweep test info printed on the cable, and I don't want to run into any problems when the HR20 is installed.

Another question...I just had an installer out to replace one of my HR10's, and to install the at9. He wasn't able to install the at9 in the current dish location, and will come back after I sink a poll in a workable location. At first he seemed very worried about distance (max 125 feet) then he suggested that when he comes back to install the at9 he will simply run 4 lines from the dish to the current location of the multi-switch, instead of moving the switch to a more central location. This adds about 100 feet to one of the runs, and makes it about 175 ft...Will this be a problem with a hr20?

#16 OFFLINE   Herdfan

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 01:07 PM

Also be advised that DirecTV specifies RG6 with a solid copper center conductor, instead of copper clad steel, for MPEG4 use with the AT9 dish.

I am hoping the new Zinwell WB616 powered multiswitch will mitigate this requirement somewhat. Part of the resason was that with unpowered switches, the receiver has to provide the voltage to control the LNB's and voltage travels better over solid copper.

With a powered switch locking the LNB's in place, the receiver only needs to provide enough voltage for the powered switch to send the correct feed.

#17 OFFLINE   litzdog911

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 02:18 PM

Less than 25 feet.


You'll be fine.
HD DVRs: HR34-700; HR24-500; (2) HR20-700 + WD eSATA 1TB drive/Antec MX1 case; HR21-700; HR21-200 w/AM21
Receivers: H25-500 HD Receiver; H21-100 HD Receiver
Mobile Devices: Nomad

Additional equipment configuration details

Sun & moon help site your satellite dish


#18 OFFLINE   SParker

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 02:26 PM

You'll be fine.


Yup getting good signal so all is well.. My Dad originally put the cable back together with a coupler and I saw the signal strength and it took a major hit. So I bought this new cable. I didn't want anything with couplers on it.

#19 OFFLINE   TheRatPatrol

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 02:46 PM

Also be advised that DirecTV specifies RG6 with a solid copper center conductor, instead of copper clad steel, for MPEG4 use with the AT9 dish.

Carl

Does Home Depot or Lowes sell this stuff?

#20 OFFLINE   PoitNarf

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 02:56 PM

Does Home Depot or Lowes sell this stuff?


Not sure if they sell that specifically. When I originally wired my house up a few years ago I bought a 500ft spool of RG6 from Home Depot. Used it to run the line to the room where my H20 is currently set up. It gets a good signal with no problems. This run is at least 125ft from my multiswitch btw, and the dish is about a 50ft run to the multiswitch.

#21 OFFLINE   Herdfan

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 04:02 PM

Does Home Depot or Lowes sell this stuff?

Lowes used to carry a Zenith branded solid center coax. But it is expensive compared to what can be found online.

#22 OFFLINE   JBernardK

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 04:41 PM

RG-6 is RG-6. The specs give the diameter of the inside conductor and the inside diameter of the outside conductor (shield). It has an impedence of 76 ohms as specified. Now the makeup of the dielectric material will affect the attenuation per foot. So will the number of shields. But the cutoff frequency of coaxial cable is pretty much the same and depends on the two diameters. The so called 3000 MHz cable probably has less attenuation than the so called 1000 MHz cable--but they both will work up to 3000 MHz. So what should really be specified is the amount of attenuation that can be tolerated at the highest frequency. For example, a cable that has an attenuation of 8 dB per 100 feet is better than a cable that has 13 dB per 100 feet. But 50 feet of the latter cable is better than 100 feet of the former cable. And even RG-59 will work if the distance is short enough.

The bottom line is: don't go ripping out your old cable until you try it. If it works, it works.

#23 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 04:57 PM

If you concern about your old RG-59, do quick test - connect any receiver by short cable just after switch and write down a few tpn signal level, then return it back and compare results.

#24 OFFLINE   cybrsurfer

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 08:23 PM

I feel bad for the fools that are going to try to use RG59 for satellite.:lol: :nono: :nono2: :hurah:
2 HR20-700S (0xef) [Owned/Factory: MFG 8/29/2006&10/08/2006]
1 HR10-250 (6.3a-01-2-357) [Owned/Factory MFG 5/2006]
AT-9
I'm impartial to Dish/Echostar,DirecTV,Verizon FiOS or Cable. I have no bias as to giving information to members of the many forums on DBSTalk.

#25 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 11:03 PM

RG-6 is RG-6. The specs give the diameter of the inside conductor and the inside diameter of the outside conductor (shield). It has an impedence of 76 ohms as specified. Now the makeup of the dielectric material will affect the attenuation per foot. So will the number of shields. But the cutoff frequency of coaxial cable is pretty much the same and depends on the two diameters. The so called 3000 MHz cable probably has less attenuation than the so called 1000 MHz cable--but they both will work up to 3000 MHz. So what should really be specified is the amount of attenuation that can be tolerated at the highest frequency. For example, a cable that has an attenuation of 8 dB per 100 feet is better than a cable that has 13 dB per 100 feet. But 50 feet of the latter cable is better than 100 feet of the former cable. And even RG-59 will work if the distance is short enough.

The bottom line is: don't go ripping out your old cable until you try it. If it works, it works.


I agree, don't rip your old out until you have tried it.

However, the reason that solid copper center is specified has nothing to do with RF attenuation, nor with impedence. The solid copper center conductor is specified for DC current handling capability. The 5-LNB dish draws more power than the older single, dual or triple LNB dishes, and the DC voltage drop over copper clad steel is somewhat greater than over solid copper.

As a general suggestion - if your existing cable is fairly old (more than 2 or 3 years), you may want to replace it. As a general rule - if the length of your runs are farily long (over 100 feet or so), you probably want to look at solid copper center conductor.

Carl




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