Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

HR20 - ATSC/OTA Discussion


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
511 replies to this topic

#81 OFFLINE   richlife

richlife

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,060 posts
Joined: Dec 04, 2006

Posted 07 December 2006 - 10:56 AM

I'm sorry if this is a bit redundant and maybe should be asked in another thread but are you saying that every time you split with a passive splitter you drop 50%? I have my OTA split (passive splitter) in the attic 3 ways, to drop to the family room and to two bedrooms. Then in the family room it is split again to the TV and HR10. I still receive a relatively strong signal except on CBS (bedrooms are fine though). Will I be able to split again in the family rm for the HR20?


An installer once told me that if you further split a split signal your quickly degrade your signal (100% - 50/50 - 50/25/25 - 50/25/12.5/12.5 etc.). He said the best way to preserve the best signal is to use a multi-splitter (not a multi-switch - different purpose). So I'm planning to rewire with a 1 to 4 or 5 splitter.

...Ads Help To Support This Site...

#82 OFFLINE   mikhu

mikhu

    Beer Aficionado

  • Registered
  • 1,682 posts
Joined: Oct 10, 2006

Posted 07 December 2006 - 11:12 AM

I have a powered distribution amp in my attic similar to this - http://tinyurl.com/y6ffh2 - but with (4) outputs. At this time I only use two of the outputs though. One goes to a TV in the living room, and one goes to the HDTV. Like I said earlier I split the one to the HDTV behind the HDTV and run one to the TV and one to the D* receiver (currently HR20). Works very well that way, I'm about 20 miles from the towers on flat land.

IIRC I have the gain turned down pretty far on the amp. I probably don't even need it now that I'm only running it to two spots (or would that be 2.5 spots?). I used to run it to 4 TV's, but those runs have been taken over by D* runs over the last couple years.

#83 OFFLINE   steff3

steff3

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 245 posts
Joined: Jun 12, 2006

Posted 07 December 2006 - 11:13 AM

An installer once told me that if you further split a split signal your quickly degrade your signal (100% - 50/50 - 50/25/25 - 50/25/12.5/12.5 etc.). He said the best way to preserve the best signal is to use a multi-splitter (not a multi-switch - different purpose). So I'm planning to rewire with a 1 to 4 or 5 splitter.


Thanks Hasan and Richlife for your replies. Hasan, does a pre amp require ac? Richlife, what is a multi-splitter? Is it just a passive splitter with one input and multiple outs?
Thanks again.

#84 OFFLINE   mnassour

mnassour

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 843 posts
Joined: Apr 23, 2002

Posted 07 December 2006 - 11:16 AM

I hate to bear bad news, but the PBS affiliate in Oklahoma did this a couple months ago. They no longer carry the national 24/7 HD broadcast. This might not happen to you, but it seems to be following the same pattern. One of the subs is PBS Kids. You will have to reconfigure your OTA setup when this happens. They won't appear in the guide automatically.


What we're being told here is that they plan to do HD in the evenings and multicast the rest of the time, which is fine, as long as I can record reliably:rolleyes: . Of course, that remains to be seen. So when the new channels come on, it's just an OTA reconfiguration, with any luck I won't have to do a complete reset.

thanks!

#85 OFFLINE   richlife

richlife

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,060 posts
Joined: Dec 04, 2006

Posted 07 December 2006 - 11:22 AM

[quote name='steff3']Richlife, what is a multi-splitter? Is it just a passive splitter with one input and multiple outs?[QUOTE]

Yes, that's right -- passive 4 or 5 way splitter. Actually I now more intrigued by the idea of a "powered distributor". Antenna technology passed me by since D*. Can anyone tell us what better options there might be than a passive multi-splitter? What do they do? How much do they cost? thanks:grin:

#86 OFFLINE   mdmcvay

mdmcvay

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 50 posts
Joined: Aug 30, 2006

Posted 07 December 2006 - 11:29 AM

thanks for the help....i may try that....the channels I am concerned with are my NBC because my sat pic looks like crap (8mm effect). it and my cw affiliate are at 70 degrees, my CBS which isn't carried on D* is at 155 and my PBS which is at 157.
DirecTV HR20-700
Sony KDS-R50XBR1
LG-RC199H DVD
Yamaha HTR-6090
Nintendo Wii
Sony PS3
Xbox 360 Elite w/ HD-DVD
Slingbox Pro


Insignia 32" LCD
HR21-700


#87 OFFLINE   Reggie3

Reggie3

    DBSTalk Club Member

  • Registered
  • 552 posts
Joined: Feb 20, 2006

Posted 07 December 2006 - 11:46 AM

Thanks Hasan and Richlife for your replies. Hasan, does a pre amp require ac? Richlife, what is a multi-splitter? Is it just a passive splitter with one input and multiple outs?
Thanks again.


Yes a preamp requires ac but not at the antenna- Unlike the old days they now are easy to set up. At the antenna one installs the preamp - at the end of your coax run you have the amp - this is where the ac is plugged in. It will send the power thru the coax to the preamp.

Here is a link to antenna preamps and the amount of attenuation they offer: http://www.warrenele...DTV_preamps.htm

I have the AP-8275 VHF/UHF Pre-amplifier which really has allowed me to receiver pretty good reception from the Denver stations (using a non rotating attic antenna) that are only broadcasting in very low power (think you have issue read this: http://www.hdtvcolorado.com/ )

#88 OFFLINE   biggorilla

biggorilla

    Cool Member

  • Registered
  • 21 posts
Joined: Aug 16, 2006

Posted 07 December 2006 - 12:06 PM

Ok, here's the OTA puzzle.

I have a Terk HDTVs mounted on the roof of my apartment building and an independent run to a ASKA Model: AM-125 25db Gain Distribution Amplifier inside near the HR20 and a 3ft Monster Coax to the HR20.

Now here's the puzzle, when the antenna is hooked directly to my TV Sony KDFE50A10, I get every possible Off Air channel available here in Los Angeles. When I hook it up to the HR20 (Same for the ole' HR10-250), I get PBS-HD but nothing else.

What up with that? Should I switch antennas (Maybe Channel Master 4221A)? Add a preamp? Is my ATSC tuner in the Sony TV reallly better than the HR20?

What a puzzle! I would love to have the same performance OTA as my TV in the HR20. Help anyone? :D
biggorilla

Equipment:
DirecTV HD DVR (HR20-700) 2nd owned
DirecTV 5-LNB/AT9 Multi-Satellite Dish
Terk Off-Air HDTV Antenna (HDTVs)
Sony 50" Rear LCD (KDFE50A10)
Yamaha 7.1 Receiver (RX-V1500)
Toshiba HD DVD Player (HD-A20)
XBOX 360
Harmony 880 Remote


Configuration:
Video: HR-20 to Yamaha Receiver via Component, XBOX 360 to Yamaha Receiver via Component; Receiver to TV via Component; HD DVD to TV via HDMI
Audio: HR-20, HD DVD Player, & XBOX 360 via Optical into Yamaha Receiver

#89 OFFLINE   gio12

gio12

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 855 posts
Joined: Jul 31, 2006

Posted 07 December 2006 - 12:06 PM

HR-20??

This might get me to switch faster.

#90 OFFLINE   Ryanm86

Ryanm86

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 122 posts
Joined: Oct 18, 2006

Posted 07 December 2006 - 12:07 PM

So you freaks finally get what you have been complaining about for 6 months and all you can do is talk about antennas for 4 pages. This is the biggest let down thread of the year. Come on!

#91 OFFLINE   nocaster

nocaster

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 150 posts
Joined: Nov 02, 2006

Posted 07 December 2006 - 12:10 PM

So you freaks finally get what you have been complaining about for 6 months and all you can do is talk about antennas for 4 pages. This is the biggest let down thread of the year. Come on!


Well, antennas are fundamental to OTA I would say.

#92 OFFLINE   Ryanm86

Ryanm86

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 122 posts
Joined: Oct 18, 2006

Posted 07 December 2006 - 12:13 PM

Well, antennas are fundamental to OTA I would say.


You are correct, I guess with all the build up I just thought when it was announced it would be a bigger deal.

#93 OFFLINE   Meklos

Meklos

    Legend in his own mind...

  • Registered
  • 324 posts
Joined: Nov 07, 2006

Posted 07 December 2006 - 12:14 PM

Ok, here's the OTA puzzle.

I have a Terk HDTVs mounted on the roof of my apartment building and an independent run to a ASKA Model: AM-125 25db Gain Distribution Amplifier inside near the HR20 and a 3ft Monster Coax to the HR20.

Now here's the puzzle, when the antenna is hooked directly to my TV Sony KDFE50A10, I get every possible Off Air channel available here in Los Angeles. When I hook it up to the HR20 (Same for the ole' HR10-250), I get PBS-HD but nothing else.

What up with that? Should I switch antennas (Maybe Channel Master 4221A)? Add a preamp? Is my ATSC tuner in the Sony TV reallly better than the HR20?

What a puzzle! I would love to have the same performance OTA as my TV in the HR20. Help anyone? :D


You might actually be getting too much amplification. You're getting up to 15db from the amp in the HDTVs. You need to amplify as close to the antenna as possible, upstream of the major loss. In your case, I'm guessing the AM-125's purpose in life is an amplified splitter, but you might try going directly from the HDTVs to the HR20 to see what happens, then add gain back in if you need.

Remember... with HDTV digital signals, you're not necessarily worried about gain. It's all about noise and the SNR ratio. Increasing the gain helps if you're helping the S more than the N, but at some point you may be overloading your tuner, or just simply amplifying the noise.

#94 OFFLINE   biggorilla

biggorilla

    Cool Member

  • Registered
  • 21 posts
Joined: Aug 16, 2006

Posted 07 December 2006 - 12:18 PM

You might actually be getting too much amplification. You're getting up to 15db from the amp in the HDTVs. You need to amplify as close to the antenna as possible, upstream of the major loss. In your case, I'm guessing the AM-125's purpose in live is an amplified splitter, but you might try going directly from the HDTVs to the HR20 to see what happens, then add gain back in if you need.

Remember... with HDTV digital signals, you're not necessarily worried about gain. It's all about noise and the SNR ratio. Increasing the gain helps if you're helping the S more than the N, but at some point you may be overloading your tuner, or just simply amplifying the noise.


Thanks for the suggestion.

I tried taking the amp out of the mix and still no change on the HR20. Still shows weak to no signal for most channels. I just reattached directly to the TV and once again I get all OTA channels with great signal strength.
biggorilla

Equipment:
DirecTV HD DVR (HR20-700) 2nd owned
DirecTV 5-LNB/AT9 Multi-Satellite Dish
Terk Off-Air HDTV Antenna (HDTVs)
Sony 50" Rear LCD (KDFE50A10)
Yamaha 7.1 Receiver (RX-V1500)
Toshiba HD DVD Player (HD-A20)
XBOX 360
Harmony 880 Remote


Configuration:
Video: HR-20 to Yamaha Receiver via Component, XBOX 360 to Yamaha Receiver via Component; Receiver to TV via Component; HD DVD to TV via HDMI
Audio: HR-20, HD DVD Player, & XBOX 360 via Optical into Yamaha Receiver

#95 OFFLINE   gusbuf

gusbuf

    DBSTalk Club Member

  • Registered
  • 88 posts
Joined: Aug 20, 2006

Posted 07 December 2006 - 12:44 PM

Earl,

Any idea of how much hard drive space is used by OTA HD recordings vs MPEG4 HD recordings from the satellite dish?

Thanks!

#96 OFFLINE   hasan

hasan

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,908 posts
  • LocationOgden, IA
Joined: Sep 22, 2006

Posted 07 December 2006 - 12:47 PM

Thanks Hasan and Richlife for your replies. Hasan, does a pre amp require ac? Richlife, what is a multi-splitter? Is it just a passive splitter with one input and multiple outs?
Thanks again.


If you do it right, you get an antenna mounted preamp...that sends the power to run it up the coax, no extra wire or power required at the antenna. Bring the run of coax (the one with both signal and preamp power) down as far as you can, then it terminates in a "power inserter" box and your antenna output. At that point (at the antenna output of the power inserter box) you can put your splitters and your coax runs to your other devices.

There are other ways to do this if you need the split to take place up in an attic...you will need an a/c power outlet in the attic or a long extension cord to same for this approach. Just keep in mind, you don't want to do the "split" until AFTER the power insertion/antenna output box. One side of the box has the cable (with power inserted) that goes to the remote antenna, the other side of the same box has the short run to go to the HR20 or your splitters.

It looks like this:

Ant > Coax run with power > Power Inserter > Passive Splitter > HR20 and other receivers

...hasan, N0AN

SlimLine5-SWiMLNB/DECA/WHDVR
HR44-700, WD20EURX 2 TB eSATA/ThermalTake Max 5 Enclosure

HR24-200, WD20EVDS 2 TB eSATA/ThermalTake Dock

HR24-200, H21-200. Samsung UN60C6400 60" LED/LCD

DirecTV since 1995


#97 OFFLINE   hasan

hasan

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,908 posts
  • LocationOgden, IA
Joined: Sep 22, 2006

Posted 07 December 2006 - 12:49 PM

Ok, here's the OTA puzzle.

I have a Terk HDTVs mounted on the roof of my apartment building and an independent run to a ASKA Model: AM-125 25db Gain Distribution Amplifier inside near the HR20 and a 3ft Monster Coax to the HR20.

Now here's the puzzle, when the antenna is hooked directly to my TV Sony KDFE50A10, I get every possible Off Air channel available here in Los Angeles. When I hook it up to the HR20 (Same for the ole' HR10-250), I get PBS-HD but nothing else.

What up with that? Should I switch antennas (Maybe Channel Master 4221A)? Add a preamp? Is my ATSC tuner in the Sony TV reallly better than the HR20?

What a puzzle! I would love to have the same performance OTA as my TV in the HR20. Help anyone? :D


Your Terk amplified antenna may be overdriving the HR20 and causing it to lose signal. Reduce the gain on the Terk or turn off the power to it and see what happens.

...hasan, N0AN

SlimLine5-SWiMLNB/DECA/WHDVR
HR44-700, WD20EURX 2 TB eSATA/ThermalTake Max 5 Enclosure

HR24-200, WD20EVDS 2 TB eSATA/ThermalTake Dock

HR24-200, H21-200. Samsung UN60C6400 60" LED/LCD

DirecTV since 1995


#98 OFFLINE   hasan

hasan

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,908 posts
  • LocationOgden, IA
Joined: Sep 22, 2006

Posted 07 December 2006 - 12:51 PM

So you freaks finally get what you have been complaining about for 6 months and all you can do is talk about antennas for 4 pages. This is the biggest let down thread of the year. Come on!


No one is requiring you to read the thread. If you aren't interested read something else and let those who need help get it. You can't do OTA without an antenna and feedline, so it is on topic whether it interests you or not.

...hasan, N0AN

SlimLine5-SWiMLNB/DECA/WHDVR
HR44-700, WD20EURX 2 TB eSATA/ThermalTake Max 5 Enclosure

HR24-200, WD20EVDS 2 TB eSATA/ThermalTake Dock

HR24-200, H21-200. Samsung UN60C6400 60" LED/LCD

DirecTV since 1995


#99 OFFLINE   hasan

hasan

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,908 posts
  • LocationOgden, IA
Joined: Sep 22, 2006

Posted 07 December 2006 - 12:54 PM

Earl,

Any idea of how much hard drive space is used by OTA HD recordings vs MPEG4 HD recordings from the satellite dish?

Thanks!


It will use a little more than HD MPEG-2 on the satellite, because it's not bit starved. It will use a LOT more than MPEG-4/HD-Locals on the satellite.

...hasan, N0AN

SlimLine5-SWiMLNB/DECA/WHDVR
HR44-700, WD20EURX 2 TB eSATA/ThermalTake Max 5 Enclosure

HR24-200, WD20EVDS 2 TB eSATA/ThermalTake Dock

HR24-200, H21-200. Samsung UN60C6400 60" LED/LCD

DirecTV since 1995


#100 OFFLINE   kirthew

kirthew

    Mentor

  • Registered
  • 40 posts
Joined: Sep 21, 2006

Posted 07 December 2006 - 12:58 PM

I have a really stupid question... I still have Comcast coming in with limited basic... I have an HD Tuner on my tv... can the OTA be used in the same fashion?




Protected By... spam firewall...And...