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Enabling Two Tuner Operation with One Wire


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24 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   dmwierz

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 08:51 AM

My local installer/service guy (in my apartment building) is being a real jerk and refusing to help me enable two tuner operation of my HR20 since i didn't buy it from him (he didn't have them in stock when I asked so I bought one at CC).

Before he threw his temper tantrum, he told me that even though only one wire is coming into the apartment, and only one wire is avalable at the wall, that he could hook up two diplexers to enable two tuner operation.

The incoming wire can be broken out where it enters the apartment (access via a panel in the wall behind the refrigerator), and I could install a diplexer there, and I can also install a diplexer at the wall jack, from which I would run two cables to the HR20. Is this all that is needed?

Thanks,

Dennis in Miami

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#2 OFFLINE   bonscott87

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 08:55 AM

He is wrong, you need two cables from the dish (or switch) to the HR20 for dual tuner operation. Running a second line is included in free install. If he won't do it, threaten to call his boss and DirecTV and he'll either do it or lose his job.

#3 OFFLINE   dmwierz

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 09:03 AM

He is wrong, you need two cables from the dish (or switch) to the HR20 for dual tuner operation. Running a second line is included in free install. If he won't do it, threaten to call his boss and DirecTV and he'll either do it or lose his job.


Scott,

I certainly understand what YOU are saying, but the option of running another wire is not viable. This is a 30 story apartment building, and one cannot simply run another wire as you would for a single family home. This is what I asked him, and when I asked he replied by saying they already had wired everything for one AND two tuner operation when the building was constructed and that many people had both HR20's and DirecTiVo's in operation with both tuners.

Is it possbile that two wires are already coming into the breakout box, and what he described was diplexing these sginals into the one cable that goes throughout the apartment, then diplexing it apart again at the walll?

Thanks,

Dennis

#4 OFFLINE   HDTVsportsfan

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 09:08 AM

You may be able to use something called Stackers\De-Stackers. I have never used them and honestly don't really know how they work. They can be expensive, but possibly the only viable option considering your situation.
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#5 OFFLINE   dmwierz

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 09:14 AM

You may be able to use something called Stackers\De-Stackers. I have never used them and honestly don't really know how they work. They can be expensive, but possibly the only viable option considering your situation.


A stacker/destacker still requires two inputs at the dish, correct, and since I am sharing dishes with the rest of the apartment, I don't understand how this applies. If I controlled my dish, and could ONLY run one cable, then this might allow me to combine two signals onto the one cable, as I understand the technology. :confused:

#6 OFFLINE   Clint Lamor

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 09:15 AM

I know the stacker/de-stacker works with the R15 and DTivos but I didn't think it worked with the HR20? I use one on my R15 and it works flawlessly (can't run a second line to where I need it)
R15 (500)
Sony A10 (Hooked to SA Tivo)
HR20 (Hooked to Toshiba Plasma)

#7 OFFLINE   HDTVsportsfan

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 09:22 AM

A stacker/destacker still requires two inputs at the dish, correct, and since I am sharing dishes with the rest of the apartment, I don't understand how this applies. If I controlled my dish, and could ONLY run one cable, then this might allow me to combine two signals onto the one cable, as I understand the technology. :confused:


You may be correct dmwierz. Clint has offered some encouragment. I simply don't know what the requirments or limitatoins of these things are. Maybe Earl is hangin around and can throw in some thoughts or someone else that knows more about this than i do. I wish I could help you further.
Good Luck.
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LR: HR24-100 to Panasonic 50" w/ Sony HTIB/FR: HR20-700 to Samsung LN55B640
Office: HR34-700 to Panasonic 50" w/ HD-A2
Office: H21-200 to 36" SD TV/BR: HR21-200 to Samsung 32" LCD
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#8 OFFLINE   dmwierz

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 09:23 AM

I know the stacker/de-stacker works with the R15 and DTivos but I didn't think it worked with the HR20? I use one on my R15 and it works flawlessly (can't run a second line to where I need it)


Again, in a situation where I cannot control what is going on at the dish, I don't see how this is pertinent, unless it magically coaxes two signals out of one cable?

Let me re-ask my question, as I fear this thread is going towards a discussion on stackers/destackers, and I don't believe this is where I need to be:

If there are two wires coming into the apartment (the only thing that makes sense), can connect them with a diplexer, with the single output going to the distribution to the apartment, then could I "split" the signal again with another diplexer at the wall?

If so, what type of diplexer do I need? Most diplexers I see are called "Satellite/Antenna Diplexers" which I don't believe is what I am looking for, correct?

Thanks,
Dennis

#9 OFFLINE   Clint Lamor

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 09:27 AM

Again, in a situation where I cannot control what is going on at the dish, I don't see how this is pertinent, unless it magically coaxes two signals out of one cable?

Let me re-ask my question, as I fear this thread is going towards a discussion on stackers/destackers, and I don't believe this is where I need to be:

If there are two wires coming into the apartment (the only thing that makes sense), can connect them with a diplexer, with the single output going to the distribution to the apartment, then could I "split" the signal again with another diplexer at the wall?

If so, what type of diplexer do I need? Most diplexers I see are called "Satellite/Antenna Diplexers" which I don't believe is what I am looking for, correct?

Thanks,
Dennis


A stacker takes the output of two seperate lines and puts them into a single cable into your premises. The De-Stacker then takes that single line and splits them apart inside your primises and those two cables then run into the back of your unit. Many MDU's use a technology like this on a much larger scale.

I don't know however if this technology works for the newer MPEG 4 HD units.

So to answer your question a stacker not so magically puts two signals into one cable and then the de-stacker not so magically seperates them inside your house/apartment/condo again.
R15 (500)
Sony A10 (Hooked to SA Tivo)
HR20 (Hooked to Toshiba Plasma)

#10 OFFLINE   dmwierz

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 09:31 AM

A stacker takes the output of two seperate lines and puts them into a single cable into your premises. The De-Stacker then takes that single line and splits them apart inside your primises and those two cables then run into the back of your unit. Many MDU's use a technology like this on a much larger scale.

I don't know however if this technology works for the newer MPEG 4 HD units.

So to answer your question a stacker not so magically puts two signals into one cable and then the de-stacker not so magically seperates them inside your house/apartment/condo again.


I'm certain the guy said "diplexer", not stacker.

Will a set of diplexers work, and if so, what type do I need? He said they were about $30 each, BTW.

Dennis

#11 OFFLINE   HDTVsportsfan

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 09:31 AM

Again, in a situation where I cannot control what is going on at the dish, I don't see how this is pertinent, unless it magically coaxes two signals out of one cable?

Let me re-ask my question, as I fear this thread is going towards a discussion on stackers/destackers, and I don't believe this is where I need to be:

If there are two wires coming into the apartment (the only thing that makes sense), can connect them with a diplexer, with the single output going to the distribution to the apartment, then could I "split" the signal again with another diplexer at the wall?

If so, what type of diplexer do I need? Most diplexers I see are called "Satellite/Antenna Diplexers" which I don't believe is what I am looking for, correct?

Thanks,
Dennis


dmwierz,

Not to discount this forum in anyway or the guys that hang out here, but maybe you can post your problem at avsforum.com. It is the parent site of DBStalk. Here is a link. I've seen several discussions about these things over there.

http://www.avsforum....isplay.php?f=25
DBSTalk Chat Room Mod (I reserve the right to be wrong.)

AT9 to SWM16
LR: HR24-100 to Panasonic 50" w/ Sony HTIB/FR: HR20-700 to Samsung LN55B640
Office: HR34-700 to Panasonic 50" w/ HD-A2
Office: H21-200 to 36" SD TV/BR: HR21-200 to Samsung 32" LCD
My full setup in Visio: http://www.dbstalk.c...8&postcount=105

#12 OFFLINE   Clint Lamor

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 09:37 AM

I'm certain the guy said "diplexer", not stacker.

Will a set of diplexers work, and if so, what type do I need? He said they were about $30 each, BTW.

Dennis


To the best of myknowledge the only thing a multi plexer/diplexer will do is split multiple LNB outputs into even more cable to go to the unit. I have one of those also since I have only a Dual LNB dish right now and I have 4 feeds coming into my house. It will also allow you to run a cable/ota signal though the same lines. Still need two cables to your Dual Tuner boxes though.

I know they are working on some new tech that will allow you to run multiple tuners off a single cable with nothing else needed but I don't think DTV has released the tech yet. I know to get two SAT signals or 1 coax run you need to stack and de-stack.
R15 (500)
Sony A10 (Hooked to SA Tivo)
HR20 (Hooked to Toshiba Plasma)

#13 OFFLINE   dmwierz

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 09:37 AM

dmwierz,

Not to discount this forum in anyway or the guys that hang out here, but maybe you can post your problem at avsforum.com. It is the parent site of DBStalk. Here is a link. I've seen several discussions about these things over there.

http://www.avsforum....isplay.php?f=25


Good idea. I actually went there first but didn't find the DBS forum. I've been a member of AVS for years.

Dennis

#14 OFFLINE   bonscott87

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 10:10 AM

He may have called it a diplexer but what diplexer is used for is to combine an OTA antenna cable with one of the sat cables into one cable. A diplexer cannot be used to combine sat signals. That is what the stacker/de-stacker does. They are pricey though. I think your installer was just getting his terms mixed up.

So if you actually have 2 cables coming into your apartments then you'd put a stacker with those two cables as inputs. Then at the other end where your HR20 is you'd have a destacker that then splits it up into two lines again.

If you only have one cable coming into the apartment it's possible in the buildings distribution center they have stackers setup for each apartment and then run a single cable to each one. Then all you'd need is the destacker in your apartment to split it to two cables again.

The main question is are there any stacker/destacker boxes that work with the MPEG4/KA signals.

#15 OFFLINE   Mertzen

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 10:40 AM

If he won't do it, threaten to call his boss and DirecTV and he'll either do it or lose his job.


Indeed, threats make us want to do a good as possible job each and every time ..:nono:

#16 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 01:34 PM

Most likely for a large apartment complex they are already stacking the signal and you need de-stacking equipment at the receiver/dvr. Also, if the stacking has been in place for any length of time, it will not include the MPEG4 feeds from the 99 and 103 satellites, and might not include the 110 and 119 satellites. This means that it won't support most of DirecTV's hi-def and definately won't support MPEG4 local channels.

Your installer/service person should be able to provide you the proper destacker, if in fact the feed into your apartment is stacked. That will let you get both tuners going, but it almost certainly will not get you all that the HR20 can handle.

DirecTV is developing a new "stacking" technology called FTM, which will allow all of the 5-satellite feeds to be combined on a single coax. That is expected to be available sometime next year (2007), however it almost certainly won't be installed in existing MDU facilities immediately.

At this point, you may be in a position where you can't get to where you want to be, at least short term. I think the only way you will get anyplace right now, is to work with the person who supports your building.

Good luck.

Carl

#17 OFFLINE   SParker

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 02:23 PM

dmwierz, slightly off topic but since your installer guy showed his true colors I wouldn't do business with him again if I were you.

#18 OFFLINE   Rocko62580

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 05:28 PM

Most likely for a large apartment complex they are already stacking the signal and you need de-stacking equipment at the receiver/dvr. Also, if the stacking has been in place for any length of time, it will not include the MPEG4 feeds from the 99 and 103 satellites, and might not include the 110 and 119 satellites. This means that it won't support most of DirecTV's hi-def and definately won't support MPEG4 local channels.

Your installer/service person should be able to provide you the proper destacker, if in fact the feed into your apartment is stacked. That will let you get both tuners going, but it almost certainly will not get you all that the HR20 can handle.

DirecTV is developing a new "stacking" technology called FTM, which will allow all of the 5-satellite feeds to be combined on a single coax. That is expected to be available sometime next year (2007), however it almost certainly won't be installed in existing MDU facilities immediately.

At this point, you may be in a position where you can't get to where you want to be, at least short term. I think the only way you will get anyplace right now, is to work with the person who supports your building.

Good luck.

Carl


Tell us more about the FTM please!

#19 OFFLINE   dmwierz

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 06:51 PM

Guys,

Well, the installer really ticked me off with his attitude. i really TRIED to buy the DVR from him but his availability sucked. Then he set up two appointments to do the installation and cancelled them, and when I informed him i was losing patience, he had the audacity to get pissed at ME, sayinng he really isn't making very much money on the install, and it would probably be best if I found somebody else to do the hook-up since he was too busy and didnt' care for MY attitude.

I wish I could say I am surprised by his response, but nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to "service" providers. This same guy will be complaining in a year or two after he treats enough people this way, and his businees goes under, blaming it all on a "bad economy" or anything other than his awful customer relations abilities.

Unfortunately, I don't have an alternative to him, and I haven't gotten much firm direction from this thread to aid me in figuring out what is installed currently. All I know for sure is the building is a couple years old, and the cabling hasn't been upgraded since the original 3 LNB dishes and associated multiswitches were installed. Alsio I know that he told me the installation was very quick, and involved TWO devices: one behind the panel where the feed enters the apartment and one where the cable comes out of the wall jack.

Dennis

#20 OFFLINE   AnonomissX

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 07:35 PM

Guys,

Well, the installer really ticked me off with his attitude. i really TRIED to buy the DVR from him but his availability sucked. Then he set up two appointments to do the installation and cancelled them, and when I informed him i was losing patience, he had the audacity to get pissed at ME, sayinng he really isn't making very much money on the install, and it would probably be best if I found somebody else to do the hook-up since he was too busy and didnt' care for MY attitude.

I wish I could say I am surprised by his response, but nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to "service" providers. This same guy will be complaining in a year or two after he treats enough people this way, and his businees goes under, blaming it all on a "bad economy" or anything other than his awful customer relations abilities.

Unfortunately, I don't have an alternative to him, and I haven't gotten much firm direction from this thread to aid me in figuring out what is installed currently. All I know for sure is the building is a couple years old, and the cabling hasn't been upgraded since the original 3 LNB dishes and associated multiswitches were installed. Alsio I know that he told me the installation was very quick, and involved TWO devices: one behind the panel where the feed enters the apartment and one where the cable comes out of the wall jack.

Dennis


Does everyone there have Directv as part of their perks for living in your apartment building? You may have an MDU account, or "Multiple Dwelling Unit" account, where customers are provided Directv for free or reduced pricing through an apartment type set up, the main account is between Directv and the building. There are companies that manage the property for the MDU accounts. If this is the case with you, you can call Directv, ask them if you have an MDU account, and then ask them who the company is that manages the equipment and installs for your property. They will provide you with a name and an 800# to call and complain over his head.

If its not an MDU account, why is the building guy the only one you can work with?

Hope this helps.
~Melodie~ Aka AnonomissX

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