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OTA dropouts on 622 input


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165 replies to this topic

#81 OFFLINE   Barrysb

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 02:38 PM

Not that I want to hog this thread, but there has been some confirmation about one way to get around the problem of signal dropouts. It appears there is a very narrow window where the 622 is not affected by whatever is causing the problem. Several of us have been successful in getting a stable picture by making sure the reported signal strength of the problem station is kept around the 68-72 range. Maybe you might want to check this out.

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#82 OFFLINE   boylehome

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 03:06 PM

Not that I want to hog this thread, but there has been some confirmation about one way to get around the problem of signal dropouts. It appears there is a very narrow window where the 622 is not affected by whatever is causing the problem. Several of us have been successful in getting a stable picture by making sure the reported signal strength of the problem station is kept around the 68-72 range. Maybe you might want to check this out.


Barrysb,

This is very interesting information. I'll try and see if I can attenuate my affected signal so it is between the 68-72 range, so to see if that works. The attenuation that I've tried had caused it to be lower than that range and the problem still remains.

#83 OFFLINE   Traveler62

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 03:34 PM

I have the same issue with PBS HD channels 19-1 through 19-4 here in Kansas City. I posted the issue on the Local HDTV issues section of AVS forum for Kansas City (as per one mods advice, thanks!) and found another 622 owner is seeing the same thing exactly. I figure it is something the station is sending in the signal that the 622 doesn't like. I told an engineer at the station about the problem, but they didn't seem too concerned. I do get good signal strength on these channels (about 93), but every few seconds, the strength drops and then comes back. If you are seeing weak strengths on all channels, the OTA tuner on the 622 may be bad.

This forced me to buy the locals package which at least I get program info now too, that is nice. Would be nicer if it was free.


This problem was resolved about 2 weeks ago here in KC. I talked to the engineer at the PBS Station and he has been working with the Dish techs to resolve this and was glad it was working. The issue must have been fixed with a nightly update by Dish.
I would suggest those still having problems to check the Local HDTV issues mentioned above for your city and see if others are having the same issue.

#84 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 03:41 PM

Since this was an OTA issue... most likely an update on the station end fixed the issue not an update by Dish.
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#85 OFFLINE   Hall

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 08:39 PM

Yeah, this issue was not a Dish one 'cause there haven't been any updates for a few months.... The "nightly update" you refer to is nothing more than downloading guide data.

#86 OFFLINE   jas88

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 09:56 PM

OK, so still no love from Fox 7, UT_Texan?

#87 OFFLINE   Barrysb

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 10:02 PM

Barrysb,

This is very interesting information. I'll try and see if I can attenuate my affected signal so it is between the 68-72 range, so to see if that works. The attenuation that I've tried had caused it to be lower than that range and the problem still remains.


Once the signal drops to around 65, I find the picture starts breaking up again but this is probably due to lack of signal and not what is causing a similar problem, but different cause, at signal levels above 75.

#88 OFFLINE   boylehome

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 07:32 AM

Once the signal drops to around 65, I find the picture starts breaking up again but this is probably due to lack of signal and not what is causing a similar problem, but different cause, at signal levels above 75.


As posted in the other forum, the problem in our DMA with FOX digital is from the transmitter. I've tried the attenuation, antenna adjustment, cabling, amplification, and antenna placement. At first there seemed some promise but was only a coincidence in that the station had made some adjustment at the same time. Yesterday they made a devastating change to their transmission that is now affecting a wide variety of receivers, extending beyond the the ViP series. So as it stands, the station and the exciter/modulator manufacturer must get the bugs ironed out. It was worth the experimenting, only if it would have helped.

For any others out there that are experiencing similar problems and nothing is working, it is important to call the station and inform them of the symptoms. They can't see the problem. The more people that call the same station will result in quicker repair. It is also a good idea to visit your local DMA OTA site at AVSForum to see if others are posting similar problems: http://www.avsforum....isplay.php?f=45

#89 OFFLINE   jasmkk

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 01:23 PM

I'm here in Milwaukee and have also had the dropout problems with Fox 6 locally. I complained to Dish and they're sending me a new VIP622. However in the meantime I found this thread. I got a "variety pak" of attenuators and have the same success in removing the dropouts with the right amount of attenuation - in my case I'm at 73. It also appears to work down to 67-68 as mentioned previously but then I have too much attenuation on some of the other channels. After reading this thread I don't expect much from the new VIP622 but I'll see what happens when it arrives.

#90 OFFLINE   UT_Texan

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 10:42 PM

I have had no success in talking to someone that is in a position to help at Dish.
As posted previously several of us have talked extensively to our local Fox station but they need to work with Dish to see if there is anything they or Dish can do and Dish isn't cooperating.

I too have tried the attenuation but have had little sucess. At first I thought it was working but then the problem came back and I didn't change anything. I have tried the high 60's and low 70's. When I get to the 60's I lose NBC 36.1

I don't understand why the TV manufacturer can install or build a tuner that works fine but the 622 is flaky. I also can't understand why DTV found the problem and fixed it on their end and Dish techs claim it is the Local station that is to blame.

Ron, is there any news on whether or not the next release will update the tuner in the 622?

The other solution would be to get Austin locals via Dish in HD.

Wish me luck as I keep trying to hammer Dish. I will continue to pester Dish till this gets solved.
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#91 OFFLINE   TechniKal

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 11:55 PM

Just got a 622 installed this week in Austin. Same issues as everyone else with Fox OTA. Attenuation isn't an answer as Fox is one of my strongest channels, so adding enough to drop Fox's signal level will make other channels too weak to come in.

I'll go ahead and submit a trouble ticket with Dish so they know more folks are having the problem.

#92 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 01:01 AM

Ron, is there any news on whether or not the next release will update the tuner in the 622?


None that I have heard. Mark would know more than me.. I just know what i read here.

As for hammering.. Keep doing it, but remember.. Just because one tuner does not have the problem or makes a fix to fix their problem does not make the other tuner with what seems to be the same problem the tuners issue.

Definitely complex stuff and really hard root cause from our end. As for who is cooperating.. Why do you feel Dish is not? Was there some indication from the Station that this is the case?
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#93 OFFLINE   Barrysb

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 06:56 PM

Just got a 622 installed this week in Austin. Same issues as everyone else with Fox OTA. Attenuation isn't an answer as Fox is one of my strongest channels, so adding enough to drop Fox's signal level will make other channels too weak to come in.

I'll go ahead and submit a trouble ticket with Dish so they know more folks are having the problem.


The more information we can feed Dish the better. Attenuation may not be the answer for you but it might help them identify the problem if you can confirm attenuation does work in your situation.

#94 OFFLINE   brian boe

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 07:55 PM

Hi all, came over from avs forum. Great site for dish subs. Recently I started having the same problem with my local Fox affiliate. When viewing Fox 6 the signal comes in, then drops out. It will come in for about 30 seconds then lose signal for 5-10 seconds and it repeats this for as long as I can stand to watch it:mad: . I also plugged the rg6 directly into to box but it didn't help. I have a Hitachi 55hdt51 plasma, the 622 receiver and a winegaurd 8200 antenna with a preamp. The signal is around the 93-98 range most of the time with Fox 6 and then it drops to 0 intermittedly. I called cs and they claimed nobody else has ever had this problem. Good training huh:nono2:. I will do more checking and post back. I believe Fox6 broadcasts on channel 33. I switched the antenna to Fox32 from Chicago and it works great.

Btw got the 622 in November and had no problems the first 3 months.

#95 OFFLINE   brian boe

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 08:41 PM

Anyone think this has something to do with d and fox both being owned by Ruppert Murdock. Why would fox care if dish network 622s don't work on their signal. Just a thought:eek2:

#96 OFFLINE   CricTic

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:50 AM

Maybe it's time to escalate the issue to Fox? It can't be a coincidence that so many Fox affiliates around the country are having similar issues.

#97 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 11:52 AM

Btw got the 622 in November and had no problems the first 3 months.


Since the 622 software has not been updated in this time period and the issue is OTA based, this would lead me to think one of the following.

1) Upstream hardware change/configuration introducing the issue.
2) Slow type of failure in your 622 causing issue to surfice.
3) Possible Antenna installation issue cropping up over time.

#1 is the most likely cause. That is the one I would work on first. You can rule out #2 with a receiver swap and #3 can be ruled out if other equipement is ok hooked up to the same connection.
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#98 OFFLINE   Hall

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 01:10 PM

Maybe it's time to escalate the issue to Fox? It can't be a coincidence that so many Fox affiliates around the country are having similar issues.

The coincidence is that, as I understand things with FOX, is that they control the HD signal entirely. With other networks, the local stations receive the signal and run it through their equipment for transmission to viewers. In the case of FOX, much of this "equipment" is skipped. The term I've heard used is "splice".

Not related to FOX, but in most cases where receiver owners (of the same type) all of a sudden start reporting issues with OTA of a specific station, the station has made a change on their end that's potentially incompatible with different receivers. My local ABC made an equipment change a month or so ago and initially it was 622 owners who reported problems (from the Dayton HDTV thread at AVS). As more people started seeing the problem, other receivers came into the mix. Guess what ?? The local ABC updated software on an "exciter" they use. This same "exciter" was a fairly popular piece of equipment across the country and others reported it too. The solution for the time being was to roll back to the previous software.

#99 OFFLINE   luvjava

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 02:04 PM

The more information we can feed Dish the better. Attenuation may not be the answer for you but it might help them identify the problem if you can confirm attenuation does work in your situation.


Here are my two cents:
I'm a Dish network customer for over 10 years, and just upgraded from an 811 to a 622VIP.
along with that I upgraded to having signal drop-outs.
For the past 2 years I've had NO problem that I can remember with my OTA signal.

I live in a 3 story house, 2 blocks from the Chesapeake bay, with clear shot across the bay with an external Radio Shack Omni/Directional antenna (sorry, cant tell you what model)
Between 18 and 20 miles to the all of the DTV transmitters in the area. all stations are between 211 and 228 degrees (compass heading)
My antenna is pointed to where I get max signal (avg. across stations)
My 622 shows minimum signal for stations as 96, and max at 100.

I have had the same antenna setup for over two years, the signal is diplexed with my Sat signal and comes into my house on the contractor installed coax.

It appears that I only have an issue with one station (that I've seen so far)
WAVY-DT (Chan 10.1, Freq. assignment 31)

I had a problem with this same station a few years ago, when I got my 811, it seems that they were broadcasting the incorrect date/time (6 months off) and every time I tuned to the station with my 811 it set the time on the receiver, and when I tuned back to Sat programing, it thought my receiver had not been use in 6 months, and re-downloaded the EPG.
A few calls fixed that (after a receiver replacement)

I hope this adds to the data other are collecting.

Bill
Hampton Va.

#100 OFFLINE   UT_Texan

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:22 PM

Ron,
Thanks for the update,
I have spoken to the chief eng. at our Fox station and he said nobody from Dish has contacted him. I have reported the issue 3 times (tonight being the 3rd). Everytime I call they state there are no other reports of this issue. I will give them the benefit of the doubt here because I don't know what they are checking against. I have sent several emails to dishquality and to the CEO's office to no avail. I have also called someone in the executive office twice and haven't received a callback yet.

The eng. at Fox would be glad to help if he had a unit to test so he could provide feedback to Fox.

I do understand your point on the different tuners but I still firmly believe the issue lies with Dish more than anyone else. DTV tuner works fine now, our various branded TV's built-in tuner works fine. I just think the 622 is more sensitive for whatever reason. I wish I was more of a techie when it came to broadcasting.

Crictic,
I think it would be much more difficult to get Fox to change something rather than Dish since our Tv's built-in tuner picks the station up fine. However, if our local Fox station had a 622 to test they might find a solution they could implement from their end.


Hall,
The exicter issue doesn't apply to our case nor the one in Tallahassee. They have a completely different mfr. at least per the chief eng. I am not though ruling out that Fox stations could make a change to fix the issue.
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