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Guest Message by DevFuse

Perspective (moved from the War On Terrorism Forum)


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38 replies to this topic

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Posted 12 October 2001 - 10:24 PM


Not to deny the importance of every life which ended on 9-11, but it sometimes helps to keep things in perspective, especially as hysteria threatens. This has been going around as a forward. If you missed it, here it is:Subject: Encouraging words - Good Statistics:

By now everyone has been hearing the death toll rise and reports of the destruction from the
terrorist attacks on the US. These were deplorable acts that we will never forget. But now is a
time to look at the other side of the numbers coming out of New York, Washington and
Pennsylvania.
The sad but somewhat uplifting side that the mainstream media has not reported yet: the
SURVIVAL rates and some positive news about the attacks.

The Buildings: The twin towers of the World Trade Center were places of employment for some
50,000 people. With the missing list of just over 5,000 people, that means 90% of the people
targeted survived the attack. A 90% on a test is an "A".

The Pentagon: Some 23,000 people were the target of a third plane aimed at the Pentagon. The
latest count shows that 123 lost their lives. That is an amazing 99.5% survival rate! In addition,
the plane seems to have come in too low too early to affect a large portion of the building. On top
of that, the section that was hit was the first of five sections to undergo renovations that would
help protect the Pentagon from terrorist attacks. It had recently completed strengthening and blast
proofing, saving untold lives. This attack was destructive, but it is also a statistical failure.

The Planes:
American Airlines Flight 77. This Boeing 757 that was flown into the outside of the Pentagon
could have carried up to 289 people, yet only 64 were aboard. Fortunately, 78% of the seats were
empty.
American Airlines Flight 11. This Boeing 767 could have had up to 351 people aboard, but only
carried 92. Thankfully, 74% of the seats were unfilled.
United Airlines Flight 175. Another Boeing 767 that could have had 351 people on board had 65
people. It was 81% empty.
United Airlines Flight 93. This Boeing 757 was one of the most uplifting stories yet. The smallest
flight to be hijacked with 45 people aboard out of a possible 289 had 84% of its capacity unused.
Yet these people stood up to the attackers and thwarted a fourth attempted destruction of a
national landmark, saving untold numbers of lives in the process.

In Summary: Of potentially 74,280 Americans directly targeted by these cowards, 93% survived
or avoided the attacks. That's a higher survival rate than heart attacks, breast cancer, kidney
transplants and liver transplants - all common, survivable illnesses. Pass this information on to
those in depression, or in fear, and especially to the media. Don't fear these cowards and
terrorists. God is on our side and, in addition, the odds are against the terrorists.




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Posted 13 October 2001 - 04:05 AM


I remember hearing these statistics on the radio a couple of weeks back. Very interesting.


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Posted 15 October 2001 - 01:04 AM


We are now living in the time which God has lifted his hand of protection on our nation. Sin has destroyed us as a nation. We all seen Satan's face in the smoke of the WTC. God is now letting Satan run this earth. Just listen to the high winds around the country. It sounds like a lion's roar which is Satan running around waiting to
devour his next victims.

Since we will not repent as a nation, many more will die the next time if we don't accept God's judgement and repent of our sins. This is our last chance before the anti-christ to change our lives.






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Posted 15 October 2001 - 01:45 AM


"The Buildings: The twin towers of the World Trade Center were places of employment for some
50,000 people. With the missing list of just over 5,000 people, that means 90% of the people
targeted survived the attack. A 90% on a test is an "A".

And no CEO showed up for work that day. Damn!!! What a coincidence.

"The Pentagon: Some 23,000 people were the target of a third plane aimed at the Pentagon. The
latest count shows that 123 lost their lives. That is an amazing 99.5% survival rate! "

Not really. The plane flew into a section that was under renovations. A really poor target IMO.


"The Planes:
American Airlines Flight 77. This Boeing 757 that was flown into the outside of the Pentagon
could have carried up to 289 people, yet only 64 were aboard. Fortunately, 78% of the seats were
empty."

That's because there had to be a low number of passengers to ensure that the hijackers could overtake them. Many people were turned away at the gates to ensure that this attack orchestrated by the Illuminati would be successful.

"American Airlines Flight 11. This Boeing 767 could have had up to 351 people aboard, but only
carried 92. Thankfully, 74% of the seats were unfilled."

See above!

"United Airlines Flight 175. Another Boeing 767 that could have had 351 people on board had 65
people. It was 81% empty."

Of course. See above!

"United Airlines Flight 93. This Boeing 757 was one of the most uplifting stories yet. The smallest
flight to be hijacked with 45 people aboard out of a possible 289 had 84% of its capacity unused."

By now you should suspect that something stinks in Denmark.


"Yet these people stood up to the attackers and thwarted a fourth attempted destruction of a
national landmark, saving untold numbers of lives in the process."

Right on! The government sure in the hell wasn't going to do anything about it although they had an F-16 behind it.


"n Summary: Of potentially 74,280 Americans directly targeted by these cowards, 93% survived
or avoided the attacks."

That's because the low numbers were needed for them to succeed. They were not cowards at all. They were
daserdly.


"God is on our side and, in addition, the odds are against the terrorists."

Not true. God is on his own side. Which side are we on?





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Posted 15 October 2001 - 11:35 AM


Rage, just what proof do you have that this nation was ever "under the hand of God" any more than any other nation? Just where is it written that God shifted his "Chosen Nation" status away from Israel to the United States? We have been protected for centuries by two oceans and only two borders with relatively friendly nations on the other side. Not by any special relationship with God. The difference now is not that God is mad at us, but that it is much easier for our enemies to reach us than in earlier times.

"The Pentagon: Some 23,000 people were the target of a third plane aimed at the Pentagon. The
latest count shows that 123 lost their lives. That is an amazing 99.5% survival rate! "

Not really. The plane flew into a section that was under renovations. A really poor target IMO

That's the point. They screwed up.

"God is on our side and, in addition, the odds are against the terrorists."

Not true. God is on his own side. Which side are we on?

Amazing, I agree with you Rage. This is the one part of the essay that I had problems with, but it was in the original so I included it.


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Posted 18 October 2001 - 12:19 PM


"Rage, just what proof do you have that this nation was ever "under the hand of God" any more than any other nation? Just where is it written that God shifted his "Chosen Nation" status away from Israel to the United States?"

He didn't change the status of Isreal. It's just we were blessed like no other nation of the world and we turned away from him like all the other empires of the past.
His judgement and the destruction of this nation is at hand.


"We have been protected for centuries by two oceans and only two borders with relatively friendly nations on the other side. Not by any special relationship with God. The difference now is not that God is mad at us, but that it is much easier for our enemies to reach us than in earlier times."

I disagree. God blessed this nation and made it powerful to spread our missionaries throughout the world. God is on a timetable and the time is about to run out. The Gospil has been preached to every nation of the world.

The wager of sin is death according to the book of Romans. God will not change his mind about our sins. We kicked God out of our schools and public places. We kill babies. World leader in drugs, booze, porography, R-rated movies and all kinds of other disgusting stuff like music and art. Wake up Bogy! God is not going to let us get away with this too much longer. We are the great prostitute: 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

I will pray for you tonight, Bogy. I ask you to change from your apostate ways and get to know the real God.
I have a jealous God who does indeed bring judgement on the people. How can you say that God has nothing to do with this when he used other nations to punish Israel over all of time? Read the book of Judges. God has used pestilence and plagues against evil people in the past. Our nation is at the beginning of this. We have a short time to repent or more disaters will happen. He lifted his hand of protection and we are now open to attacks by our enemies.

Matthew
24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Right there it is in black and white. Israel is now a nation since 1948, and a generation is 70 years and this generation will not pass. So between now and 2018 all these things will be fulfilled. Praise God! Get ready, Bogy.

Isaiah
5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
5:21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

This is what's happening today.

MTV--Good
People against MTV---bad
Abortion--Good
Anti-abortion---bad
R-rated movies- Good
Against R-rated movies---bad
Patriots--bad
BATF and FBI-- good
Halloween decorations in school--good
Christmas and 10 Commandments-- bad
Creation---bad
Evolution-- good

Wake up people. Be prepared to meet your maker.






















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Posted 18 October 2001 - 01:28 PM


"Right there it is in black and white. Israel is now a nation since 1948, and a generation is 70 years and this generation will not pass. So between now and 2018 all these things will be fulfilled. Praise God! Get ready, Bogy."

Actually, a generation is typically considered to be 18-20 years, not 70 years. A generation was certainly no where near 70 years when the Bible was first written. If a generation were 70 years, I would be in my parent's generation (as would you and your parents) and I just don't feel like part of their generation.


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Posted 18 October 2001 - 08:51 PM


Rage, God talked to me the other day and told me that you are wrong. We had a long conversation about your post and HE said "Nope, that's not how I work." Go figure.


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Posted 18 October 2001 - 09:18 PM


Rage, stop trying to figure out the time. It's a waste of time. Jesus also said that no one, including him, knew the timetable, and it was a waste of time to try to figure it out. Actually, what Jesus was talking about in the passage you quoted was the destruction of Jerusalem, including the temple. That happened about 40 years after Jesus death, which comes much closer to a generation, or at least the traditional "40 years" the Bible so often refers to. What Jesus commanded was not to figure out "the time" but to continually live a life that was always ready. Thats what I do Rage, why are you trying to figure out "the time." Are you trying to find a loophole?


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Posted 19 October 2001 - 08:06 AM


"Rage, stop trying to figure out the time. It's a waste of time. Jesus also said that no one, including him, knew the timetable"

No he didn't say that. He said nobody knows the day or hour. 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Right there Jesus is telling us that we will know when it's near, even at the door. What kind of message or leader of God are you? You're one of those people who will cry out "where is the promise of his coming." It's at the door and you're not getting your people ready.

Revelation

3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

This is what you are, Bogy. We've been in the Laodicea age since around the '60s. You are not either cold nor hot.

3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Bogy, I ask you to pray that God will open your heart and mind and reread the Bible. God doesn't really want to
spue you and your people out. That's why I'm giving you these end-time message. The time is short. I will not be able to tell you the truth much longer. This window is for people to repent of their sins and get right with the Lord before his wrath comes against us. It's time for you to pick a side. Are you going to pick God's side or are you going to pick George Bush and Tony Blair's new world order? I ask you to pray about this. I really do,


"Actually, what Jesus was talking about in the passage you quoted was the destruction of Jerusalem, including the temple. That happened about 40 years after Jesus death"

No way! Put in in context. I will for you.

24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Jesus was already here when he said that. This is about his second coming. It's quite clear.


"Thats what I do Rage, why are you trying to figure out "the time." Are you trying to find a loophole?"

I already know the time. I'm here to warn you so God doesn't need to spue you out. I don't want him to do that to you. The Holy Spirit has set me on fire and I wish the same would happen to you.

As for you you "joksters" who mock the word of God...

Zephaniah

1:14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
1:15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,
1:16 A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.

The high towers warning happened Sept 11. The rest of his wrath will come shortly.

As for RLW, Tony and the rest of you clowns...

1:17 And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.

You are blind men. Read the Gospil of Jesus Christ and accept him into your hearts as your savior and repent of your sins. The Book of Life is about to be closed and sealed. Get in while you still have a chance.





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Posted 19 October 2001 - 08:16 AM


Rage/Brother Rage,

Since you know all the Answers...

(Using very simplistic terms, not intended to offend)

1) Protestant = Faith only

2) Catholic = Faith and Good Deeds

Which one? I Don't want to pick the wrong path and spend eterniity with you. Please tell me All Knowing one!


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Posted 19 October 2001 - 10:24 AM


Mike, I am not Rage, but as a Christian (following a Protestant dogma) I would add that most Protestant clergy would admonish us that Faith without works is a "dead" Faith as is written in the Bible. So while Catholics do emphasize good works more than Protestants, all good Christians recognizd that those who have Faith In Jesus Christ are inspired to do good works. Those mean-spirited folks who claim to be of Faith might be fooling themselves as to their own salvation -but that is for God to decide. And that is the big problem with Rage and his ilk. They fool themselves into thingking they asctually know the will of God. That is both foolish and disrespectful to the Creator.


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Posted 19 October 2001 - 11:46 AM


RLW,

I guess I based my statement tooo much on some of the programming on Sunday morning. There was a series that repeats alot where some guy name Ankerberg (sp?) had some debates between a Protestant and a Roman Catholic. And that seemed to be the jist of the arguments, of "Is Faith enough". I wish I remembered the denomination of the guy who represented the Protestant side, which may not have been as mainstream as he was presented???


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Posted 19 October 2001 - 12:48 PM


What kind of message or leader of God are you? You're one of those people who will cry out "where is the promise of his coming." It's at the door and you're not getting your people ready.

What a surprise Rage, you missed the point again. I am getting my people ready, but not for some "end time" but to live their lives as if every day was their very first, and at the same time to live it as if it were their very last. In other words, to live it with excitement, joy, and with new eyes, and to also make every moment count because you may not have another chance to make a difference.

This is what you are, Bogy. We've been in the Laodicea age since around the '60s. You are not either cold nor hot.

All this time Rage, and you still don't understand just how hot I run. Just because I believe in love, peace, and God's grace, instead of hate,
punishment, and anger, you think I'm lukewarm. You're not hot or cold Rage, you're just confused. That's not the same.

No way! Put in in context. I will for you.

In putting it "into context," why do you start with verse 27, the middle of a paragraph? That's not "putting it into context," that is carefully choosing your own agenda. From 24:4 through to the end of 25 is a response to the disciples question in verse 3, which is set at the Mount of Olives, in private. "When will this happen? What will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the world?" And what does "When will this happen?" refer to? Verses 1-2 tell us, "After Jesus left the timple, his disciples came over and said, "Look at all these buildings!" Jesus replied, "Do you see these buildings? They will certainly be torn down? Not one stone will be left in place."" The temple was destroyed in 70 AD, which would fit with Jesus statement in verse 34, "I can promise you that some of the people of this generation will still be alive when all this happens." Has Jesus come back? How many of that generation do you think are still alive almost 2000 years later? There were two questions asked. When will the temple be destroyed, and when will you return. And then there is the common question, how can we know when these things are going to happen. And Jesus primary answer, as I have repeatedly stated is found in verse 44, "Always be ready! You don't know when the Son of Man will come." Got that Rage, Jesus said no ones knows the time, so you just have to always be ready.


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Posted 19 October 2001 - 01:14 PM


"Rage/Brother Rage,

Since you know all the Answers..."

I never even hinted that I did. All I'm typing now is what the Holy Spirit is directing to type.



"(Using very simplistic terms, not intended to offend)

1) Protestant = Faith only

2) Catholic = Faith and Good Deeds

Which one? I Don't want to pick the wrong path and spend eterniity with you. Please tell me All Knowing one! "

That's between you and God. Pray and seek his advise, not mine.



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Posted 19 October 2001 - 01:27 PM


"I guess I based my statement tooo much on some of the programming on Sunday morning. There was a series that repeats alot where some guy name Ankerberg (sp?) had some debates between a Protestant and a Roman Catholic."

His show shows a lot of debates about everything. I rarely watch the show but found it interesting in the past. Other than that, I have no opinion on him.


"And that seemed to be the jist of the arguments, of "Is Faith enough".

Absoultely. Read John 3:16. All we have to do is accept him as our Lord and Savior and nothing else. However, usually people who have his spirit are very generous and giving. They usually want to help their fellow man whenever possible. But Jesus said that we can't save the world when people were complaining about the woman who sprayed the exspensive perform on Jesus.
You can look up that parable in the Gospil.

As for the serpent, RLW and his ramblings, he doesn't know me and the words coming from his tongue are from his father the serpent.

If you really want a church, stay away from the Catholics
at all cost. They are the end-time anti-christ religious system. They worship through idols and say "hail Marry" who is no diety.

We are now in a bad church age. See another post. Pray to God and have him put the spirit in you and that he will open up your heart and soul to understand the Bible on your own because most churches today are apostate churches.




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Posted 19 October 2001 - 01:37 PM


We are now in a bad church age. See another post. Pray to God and have him put the spirit in you and that he will open up your heart and soul to understand the Bible on your own because most churches today are apostate churches.

And while you are at it, pray you understand it better than Rage.



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Posted 19 October 2001 - 01:47 PM


"What a surprise Rage, you missed the point again. I am getting my people ready, but not for some "end time" but to live their lives as if every day was their very first, and at the same time to live it as if it were their very last."

You're also suppose to watch out for it so it doesn't sneak up on you like a theif in the night.

[Mat 24:45] Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

[Mat 24:46] Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

[Mat 24:47] Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

[Mat 24:48] But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

[Mat 24:49] And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

[Mat 24:50] The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

[Mat 24:51] And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

What about the above? I say you and the lukewarm church are not preparing your people.

"In other words, to live it with excitement, joy, and with new eyes, and to also make every moment count because you may not have another chance to make a difference."

Yeah. That's what I'm trying to do now.


"All this time Rage, and you still don't understand just how hot I run. Just because I believe in love, peace, and God's grace, instead of hate,
punishment, and anger, you think I'm lukewarm. You're not hot or cold Rage, you're just confused. That's not the same."

No sir, I'm telling you what the Holy Spirit is telling me to tell you. I'm not confused at all.



"In putting it "into context," why do you start with verse 27, the middle of a paragraph? That's not "putting it into context," that is carefully choosing your own agenda."

Not at all. I was saving time and space. This is for the signs of the end of the age. No doubt about it.


"From 24:4 through to the end of 25 is a response to the disciples question in verse 3, which is set at the Mount of Olives, in private. "When will this happen? What will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the world?" And what does "When will this happen?" refer to? Verses 1-2 tell us, "After Jesus left the timple, his disciples came over and said, "Look at all these buildings!" Jesus replied, "Do you see these buildings? They will certainly be torn down? Not one stone will be left in place.""

Yeah, that was the very beginning in another context. The rest of the message is for the end of the age and his second coming.


"Always be ready! You don't know when the Son of Man will come." Got that Rage, Jesus said no ones knows the time, so you just have to always be ready"

Not true.

[Mat 24:32] Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

[Mat 24:33] So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

[Mat 24:34] Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

[Mat 24:35] Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Heaven and Earth did not pass away in 70 AD. This mesage is for now. And the generation that sees Israel become a nation will not come to pass. So a generation
stands for the normal live span of that generation which would be around 70 years today. So Jesus is coming before the generation from when Israel was born comes to an end.

Jesus says nobody knows the day or hour, but he did say we could and would know when it's at the door and it most certainly is Bogy.





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Posted 19 October 2001 - 03:35 PM


Rage rages:
" As for the serpent, RLW and his ramblings, he doesn't know me and the words coming from his tongue are from his father the serpent."

The thing I like about you the most, Rage, is that you make me laugh. Mebbe I should measure the size of my "serpent" and participate in the "Johnson" Poll in another thread! :) :)

You are right, though. I don't know if your out-RAGE-ous postings are meant to be serious of if you do them just to get a rise. In either case, though, I find them as good entertainment.



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Posted 19 October 2001 - 05:37 PM


Mike says:
"I guess I based my statement tooo much on some of the programming on Sunday morning. There was a series that repeats alot where some guy name Ankerberg (sp?) had some debates between a Protestant and a Roman Catholic."

He, like Robertson and Fallwell, are fundamentalists. They tend to have blinders on when it comes to dogma and they also have a vested interest in creating discord among Christians of various denominations. It comes down to power and money with these guys. Many of them are the Christian version of the Taliban and in some respects have similar beliefs like the subordination of women to their husbands. Of course there is a whole spectrum of acceptance and rejection of certain concepts within the Chritian Faith. Some of the controversies seem as silly as the Big-ender, Little-ender disputes in Gulliver's Travels. My own particular church wrestles with these at every annual convocation.

But you can reduce all the verbiage of the Bible, especially the NT, down to a single rule and guide for your life: Love God and love your neighbor. If you do this, you need not worry.





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