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Unwatchable recordings on command


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58 replies to this topic

#51 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 11:53 PM

It seems clear that there is some logic behind how these "tuners" work that isn't readily apparent. I hope someone who knows something about how this box works under the hood will chime in. Are there four discreet tuners in this thing? Two SAT, and two OTA? I think it's now clear that, at least, the SAT tuners are not hardwired to the SAT inputs. Would it make more sense to me look at it like there are two MPEG2/MPEG4 decoders capable of getting their input from any of the 4 available tuners/inputs?
At one level it is capable of writing two bit-streams to the disk at one time. It can write one from OTA and one from SAT, or of course, two from SAT. Apparently, if the SAT channels are properly "aligned" in is capable of doing it over a single input.

On the "front end" there are two SAT & two OTA tuners. I've looked through the cover. With the right control [14V, 20V, 22kHz] more than one transponder can send signals down the same cable to two tuners [SAT].
The "back end" is for others that know a whole bunch more than I do.

Anybody want to chime in here?
A.K.A VOS

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#52 ONLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 11:57 PM

It seems clear that there is some logic behind how these "tuners" work that isn't readily apparent. I hope someone who knows something about how this box works under the hood will chime in. Are there four discreet tuners in this thing? Two SAT, and two OTA? I think it's now clear that, at least, the SAT tuners are not hardwired to the SAT inputs. Would it make more sense to me look at it like there are two MPEG2/MPEG4 decoders capable of getting their input from any of the 4 available tuners/inputs?

Maybe the Unwatchable lives in how the decoders dynamically choose and attach to the different inputs.
Hmm..


I can answer some of this: you have to be spot on that the Sat. tuners are not tied to particular inputs. (That might be a small bit of the FTM, i slightly correct myself). THere are 4 tuners (rumored to be a 3rd satellite tuner for "something" else...) and unlike the Tivo, an OTA is not tied to a satellite tuner (apparently.) Hence the HR20 can have two OTA even if only one Satellite feed is present.

As for MPEG decoders, there is one chip. Said chip is capable of decoding 1 HD stream or 2 SD streams. BTW, the stream is recorded directly to disk, with minimal changes. It is only decoded on playback, hence they only need one chip.

I'm certain that your analysis of the unwatchables is correct, for most people. There are so many indications that people are experiencing timing issues.

Now, when people have a show they can't record, time after time, or a channel they can't record, then that would be a hardware issue like a loose cable, failing LNB, or satellite alignment issue.

Cheers,
Tom

Go Packers!

My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#53 ONLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 12:02 AM

On the "front end" there are two SAT & two OTA tuners. I've looked through the cover. With the right control [14V, 20V, 22kHz] more than one transponder can send signals down the same cable to two tuners [SAT].
The "back end" is for others that know a whole bunch more than I do.

Anybody want to chime in here?


BTW, there are some very good discussions of whats coming down the coax on avsforums. 48 transponders are sent: the original set of 16 from a 3lnb, plus 16 KA high and 16 ka low. the KA low are the ones that the BBC's handle--by moving them back up (after the lnb takes them too low for the satellite tuners...)

But the KA low aren't active yet. that comes with the launch of the two new satellites

Cheers,
Tom

Go Packers!

My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#54 OFFLINE   cygnusloop

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 12:07 AM

I can answer some of this:


Thank you VERY much, Tom.

By the way VOS,
It is Friday, is the Leno test running?

#55 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 12:34 AM

BTW, there are some very good discussions of whats coming down the coax on avsforums. 48 transponders are sent: the original set of 16 from a 3lnb, plus 16 KA high and 16 ka low. the KA low are the ones that the BBC's handle--by moving them back up (after the lnb takes them too low for the satellite tuners...)
But the KA low aren't active yet. that comes with the launch of the two new satellites
Cheers,
Tom

This starts to get into "how do you conrtol 5 LNBs with 4 controls signals 14V, 20V & 22kHz ?
I'm not quite sure of the AVS transponder count.
I count right now:
29 transponders on 101,
3 on 110,
10 on 119 = 41 Ku active
For the Ka they list 6 for each [99 & 103]. I know I get 5.
If all six are active then 12, but 5 for sure, so
41 Ku + 5 [or 12] = 46 [or 53] without Ka low.
A.K.A VOS

#56 ONLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 02:27 AM

Took some diggin' and assemblin' but here is my best understanding of how all thems transponders get down the coax:

Output IF Frequencies
Ka-Lo: 250 - 750 MHz (right on top of OTA)
Ku: 950 - 1450 MHz
Ka-Hi: 1650 - 2150 MHz

Stack Plan – 18V, 22khz
Ka-Lo: 103 LHCP
Ku: 110/119 LHCP
Ka-Hi: 103 LHCP

Stack Plan – 14V, 22khz
Ka-Lo: 103 RHCP
Ku: 119 RHCP
Ka-Hi: 103 RHCP

Stack Plan –18V, no tone
Ka-Lo: 99LHCP
Ku: 101 LHCP
Ka-Hi: 99 LHCP

Stack Plan – 14V, no tone
Ka-Lo: 99 RHCP
Ku: 101 RHCP
Ka-Hi: 99 RHCP

While I'm sure VOBWS knows RHCP and LHCP, they are the polarization of the electromagnetic waves: Right Hand Circular Polarization and Left Hand Circular Polarization.

I grabbed most of this chart from the WB616 pdf: http://www.solidsign...WB616manual.pdf

[disclaimers] I may have gotten the voltage/tone combinations wrong this late at night. Someone else can proof my work. Thanks. [/disclaimers]

Cheers,
Tom

Go Packers!

My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#57 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 08:35 AM

Tom, you should have gone to bed some time ago... ;)

From the Sonora pdf: it uses 14V & 20V to "lock".
D* seems to use 13V & 18V to control from their units. :)
RHCP= odd transponders, LHCP= even transponders

So for right now there are two, 500 MHz bandwidth, intermediate frequencies [IFs] coming into the receiver. When Ka low becomes active there will be three.
Both tuners can work off of one cable: if the channels are within one of the two [500 MHz BW] active IFs.
A.K.A VOS

#58 ONLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 11:42 AM

Tom, you should have gone to bed some time ago... ;)

From the Sonora pdf: it uses 14V & 20V to "lock".
D* seems to use 13V & 18V to control from their units. :)
RHCP= odd transponders, LHCP= even transponders

So for right now there are two, 500 MHz bandwidth, intermediate frequencies [IFs] coming into the receiver. When Ka low becomes active there will be three.
Both tuners can work off of one cable: if the channels are within one of the two [500 MHz BW] active IFs.


You should have seen me digging into FCC docs last night. I finally found D10 and D11's configuration info... :) I think I crawled into bed sometime around 5ish.

I'll post the D10 and D11 info in the general DIRECTV discussion sometime later this morning.

Yeah, I found that the US standard voltages range from 12 to 14 and 17 to 20. I just used the ones I thought i saw most commonly on DIRECTV equipment.

Cheers, (and snore........)
Tom

Go Packers!

My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#59 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 11:46 AM

You should have seen me digging into FCC docs last night. I finally found D10 and D11's configuration info... :) I think I crawled into bed sometime around 5ish.

I'll post the D10 and D11 info in the general DIRECTV discussion sometime later this morning.

Yeah, I found that the US standard voltages range from 12 to 14 and 17 to 20. I just used the ones I thought i saw most commonly on DIRECTV equipment.

Cheers, (and snore........)
Tom

Man are you ever a "trooper". "Back in the day" you would have been part of my combat support team. :D
Get some more sleep...!
A.K.A VOS




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