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TiVo vs HR20


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#1 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 16 March 2007 - 02:42 PM

I recently saw a posting by an IT specialist and a designer and his opinion was that the TiVo was the best DVR for the target audience.


If that target audience is one that prefers ease of use and intuitive devices, that would be me. I don't want to have to learn how to use an OS and a GUI. I want to turn the unit on, quickly select what program I want to watch or record, be able to conduct a quick, intuitive search and sit back and enjoy myself.

TiVos and HR20s are comparable to a Mac and a PC. I made a lot of money in the 90s teaching adult computer classes at a local college and we had plenty of Windows for beginners classes and no Mac classes at all. I had a Mac at work for several years and they are so simple to use that it is hard to believe we have to put up with Windows PCs. Had several Macs and never had one crash. Never had a virus. Never lost a document. You should not have to learn an OS. You should never have to learn anything about a GUI except how to navigate and what its commands or choices mean.

We went thru this in the 80s with the Beta-Max and the VHS formats. I had a Beta-Max and it was almost DVD quality. How did we get stuck with VHS?

We don't learn from history. Of course the Beta-Max was a better VCR. Of course the Mac is a better computer than the PC.
Of course we voted for Nixon for president not once, but twice.
Of course the TiVo is a better DVR. We don't learn from history. TiVo, simple and effective. HR20, complicated and defective.

All that said, I have enjoyed playing with the HR20. Got loads of time on my hands. I look forward to hooking up ESATA drives to my latest HR20 which will arrive in 10 days.

Just some stuff I wanted to get off my chest. Snowing out and I wanted to go hit hardballs today. And I want a TiVo with a 500 gig hard drive that will record in both MPEG2 and MPEG4. I want three of them. I hope the Yankees with the Series this year and A-Rod has a great year and Derek finally wins the MVP he should have had this year.



Rich

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#2 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 16 March 2007 - 02:52 PM

See this is what I don't understand:

To set a Recording on the HR20:
Open Guide
Navigate To Program
Hit R - Single Record
Hit R twice - Series Record

To playback a program:
Hit List
Find the program (using up and down arrows, and select to open a folder)
Hit Play

TiVo has a menu... so does HR20
TiVo's a FULL Screen, while the HR20 is off to the side, until it needs the full screen.

The button is actually "called" menu... while TiVo's is the "TiVo" button

I mean Search:
Hit Menu, Navigate the menu (up and down), Select Search.
Then your type of search (such as title), enter the words.
The results screen, highlight one of the findings and hit select

These are the exact same steps as TiVo...

Is the GUI "that" much more difficult because it is not full screen?

Not downplaying anyone here... but seriously... my 5yr old figured out how to bring up MyPlaylist and select his programs to play, in about 5 minutes of "playing"..

What is so significantly difficult/hard with the HR20 when compared to the TiVo UI?

Don't get me wrong... "Switching" to the different UI is a pain at first, as you are so used to the old menu structure, and where everything is... it gets a bit frustrating when it is not in the same place... If that is what is making it difficult? Then any other product is going to be difficult.
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#3 OFFLINE   Doug Brott

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Posted 16 March 2007 - 03:01 PM

My 2¢ is that the HR20 menus are actually easier to navigate than the TiVo menus. It took a few days to train myself the new way, but now that I can do it successfully, I'm hooked.
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#4 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 16 March 2007 - 03:31 PM

See this is what I don't understand:

To set a Recording on the HR20:
Open Guide
Navigate To Program
Hit R - Single Record
Hit R twice - Series Record

To playback a program:
Hit List
Find the program (using up and down arrows, and select to open a folder)
Hit Play

TiVo has a menu... so does HR20
TiVo's a FULL Screen, while the HR20 is off to the side, until it needs the full screen.

The button is actually "called" menu... while TiVo's is the "TiVo" button

I mean Search:
Hit Menu, Navigate the menu (up and down), Select Search.
Then your type of search (such as title), enter the words.
The results screen, highlight one of the findings and hit select

These are the exact same steps as TiVo...

Is the GUI "that" much more difficult because it is not full screen?

Not downplaying anyone here... but seriously... my 5yr old figured out how to bring up MyPlaylist and select his programs to play, in about 5 minutes of "playing"..

What is so significantly difficult/hard with the HR20 when compared to the TiVo UI?

Don't get me wrong... "Switching" to the different UI is a pain at first, as you are so used to the old menu structure, and where everything is... it gets a bit frustrating when it is not in the same place... If that is what is making it difficult? Then any other product is going to be difficult.


Hi Earl,

Figured I would hear from you. Not having difficulties, as I said in my post, I have been enjoying the HR20s and am looking forward to playing with the ESATA drives. I have no problem using the HR20s. As long as I don't put them in standby. Got any thoughts about that? Aside from that they are running well.

This is just a matter of personal preferences. I fully expect someone to say that a PC is much better than a Mac.

I have to admit that I find that window annoying and usually mute my AV system when I am doing something with the menus. I know from reading your posts that you like it. Again a personal preference.

I really like the TiVo remote (except you can't tell up from down in the dark). Does everything the other remote does without the clutter. And I use each every day and it is confusing, but hardly difficult.

I went from Ultimate TV to TiVo to the HR20 and of the three I like the TiVo. Just a personal preference.

Wasn't looking for an argument, just expressing an opinion.

Matter of fact, there are a lot of features on the HR20 that I would like to see on the TiVos. That feature where you can just press record on the guide and have a program set to record is really one that should be added.

Rich

#5 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 16 March 2007 - 03:36 PM

I really like the TiVo remote (except you can't tell up from down in the dark). Does everything the other remote does without the clutter. And I use each every day and it is confusing, but hardly difficult.


IMHO- The TiVo peanut was one of the best remotes ever designed.

Which probably add's a LOT to the "I prefer" argument, for most users....
So even though the remote isn't "technically" part of the GUI... it is part of the overall UI and I can see how that can add to the "difficult to use" aspect of people's compalins about "using" the HR20
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#6 OFFLINE   markrubi

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Posted 16 March 2007 - 03:44 PM

I can work the Tivo remote with my eyes closed or in a dim lit room. The HR20 remote with the lights on is still a challenge. Maybe after a yr goes by it will be the same with the HR20 remote. So at this point I still prefer my Tivo box plus I dont have to reboot it. I do like the HR20. Don't get me wrong.

#7 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 16 March 2007 - 03:47 PM

IMHO- The TiVo peanut was one of the best remotes ever designed.

Which probably add's a LOT to the "I prefer" argument, for most users....
So even though the remote isn't "technically" part of the GUI... it is part of the overall UI and I can see how that can add to the "difficult to use" aspect of people's compalins about "using" the HR20


What gets me is the HR20's remote has the buttons placed almost exactly in the same position as the peanut. For instance, the Select HR20 button is in the same place as the Pause button on the peanut. Then if you move up to the next set of buttons the Play button on the HR20 about in the same place as the Select button on the peanut. And I use both all day long. I never watch live TV. I wish they would have made the remote simpler. Oh well, they are what they are. Think Pinella will make a difference with the Cubs?

Rich

#8 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 16 March 2007 - 03:55 PM

What gets me is the HR20's remote has the buttons placed almost exactly in the same position as the peanut. For instance, the Select HR20 button is in the same place as the Pause button on the peanut. Then if you move up to the next set of buttons the Play button on the HR20 about in the same place as the Select button on the peanut. And I use both all day long. I never watch live TV. I wish they would have made the remote simpler. Oh well, they are what they are. Think Pinella will make a difference with the Cubs?

Rich



The remote that is on the HR20 was designed for the D10 some 3+ years ago.
It was designed as a universal remote that could also control a VCR, and was done in the same mold.

Now... If they could build a new remote, desgined first for the DVR then the other functions... :D

As for the Cubs... they are still the Cubs after all... he will make a small difference... but it is going to take more then one year to repair that franchise.
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#9 OFFLINE   SDizzle

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Posted 16 March 2007 - 04:03 PM

I like the UI of the HR20 better than the Tivo UI. Though the peanut was a great remote, I used the Harmony 880 anyway, and now I use the Harmony 1000 in the living room, not using the HR20 remote at all. And in the master bedroom, I like the HR20 remote, I can navigate it in the dark as well, like I did the HR10 remote. It took getting used to, but I have decided that I like the HR20 more than the HR10-250.........oh no, let the bashing begin. That's my opinion.
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#10 OFFLINE   Doug Brott

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Posted 16 March 2007 - 04:26 PM

Now... If they could build a new remote, desgined first for the DVR then the other functions... :D


It would be nice to have a Slow-Mo button on the remote.
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#11 OFFLINE   Sharkie_Fan

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Posted 16 March 2007 - 04:38 PM

I can work the Tivo remote with my eyes closed or in a dim lit room. The HR20 remote with the lights on is still a challenge. Maybe after a yr goes by it will be the same with the HR20 remote. So at this point I still prefer my Tivo box plus I dont have to reboot it. I do like the HR20. Don't get me wrong.


This is funny... I actually have the exact opposite problem. I like the feel of the Tivo remote... it's weighted great and feels nice in my hands. But for me, the buttons are just too dang small! I have TIVO in the bedroom still, and I have trouble navigating at night in the dark!

The HR20 remote, on the other hand, while it doesn't "feel" as nice in my hands, I find it much easier to use. The buttons seem to be sized better and spaced better to fit my hands..

I haven't compared the two to know if my assessment is actually true, but it feels to me that the HR20 remote buttons are a little bigger... Maybe I just like the HR20 better than my old tivo and so by extension, I like the remote better. I don't know...

If the tivo peanut was just a tad bigger, it would be the best remote ever... For me though, just a little small for my tastes...

#12 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 17 March 2007 - 08:54 AM

The remote that is on the HR20 was designed for the D10 some 3+ years ago.
It was designed as a universal remote that could also control a VCR, and was done in the same mold.

Now... If they could build a new remote, desgined first for the DVR then the other functions... :D

As for the Cubs... they are still the Cubs after all... he will make a small difference... but it is going to take more then one year to repair that franchise.


I just found an ESATA Cavalry 750 Gig for $349. Might get that next week and play with it for a while. At Costco. com. Have to find out what the return policy on it is. They just changed their return policy to 90 days for some products such as computers, TVs and IPODS, etc. Still a hell of a lot cheaper than Weaknees and if it does the same as one of their hard drives do to a TiVo I think I would be very happy with it. Oh boy, another toy.

As for Pinella, he's a bully. Always has been. He used to own a bar in a mall near where I live and the employees dreaded him coming in. Can't imagine what playing ball for him must be like.

Rich

#13 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 17 March 2007 - 08:55 AM

The remote that is on the HR20 was designed for the D10 some 3+ years ago.
It was designed as a universal remote that could also control a VCR, and was done in the same mold.

Now... If they could build a new remote, desgined first for the DVR then the other functions... :D

As for the Cubs... they are still the Cubs after all... he will make a small difference... but it is going to take more then one year to repair that franchise.


I just found an ESATA Cavalry 750 Gig for $349. Might get that next week and play with it for a while. At Costco. com. Have to find out what the return policy on it is. They just changed their return policy to 90 days for some products such as computers, TVs and IPODS, etc. Still a hell of a lot cheaper than Weaknees and if it does the same as one of their hard drives do to a TiVo I think I would be very happy with it. Oh boy, another toy.

As for Pinella, he's a bully. Always has been. He used to own a bar in a mall near where I live and the employees dreaded him coming in. Can't imagine what playing ball for him must be like. Still, give him the horses and he might just surprise you.

Rich

#14 OFFLINE   bllreed

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 08:21 AM

I recently saw a posting by an IT specialist and a designer and his opinion was that the TiVo was the best DVR for the target audience.


If that target audience is one that prefers ease of use and intuitive devices, that would be me. I don't want to have to learn how to use an OS and a GUI. I want to turn the unit on, quickly select what program I want to watch or record, be able to conduct a quick, intuitive search and sit back and enjoy myself.

TiVos and HR20s are comparable to a Mac and a PC. I made a lot of money in the 90s teaching adult computer classes at a local college and we had plenty of Windows for beginners classes and no Mac classes at all. I had a Mac at work for several years and they are so simple to use that it is hard to believe we have to put up with Windows PCs. Had several Macs and never had one crash. Never had a virus. Never lost a document. You should not have to learn an OS. You should never have to learn anything about a GUI except how to navigate and what its commands or choices mean.

Rich


You make some excellent points with one exception. According to you we should never have to learn anything, you want everything done for you. Sorry but that's
not the way the world works. Progress is made through learning, not having everything done for you.
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#15 OFFLINE   JACKIEGAGA

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 08:42 AM

I think the Hr20 is better the only thing I miss from TIVO is off course DLB's and trick play. Trick play on TIVO is so much smoother just flows better.

JACK,
 
 


#16 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 10:37 AM

You make some excellent points with one exception. According to you we should never have to learn anything, you want everything done for you. Sorry but that's
not the way the world works. Progress is made through learning, not having everything done for you.


Next time you buy a car try applying that logic. I don't have the time or the inclination to learn how everything works. I was an industrial electrician for fifteen years, went from apprentice to Master Electrician and learned and learned. Now all I want to do is watch TV, hit baseballs and read.

And I think that when you buy something it should work as advertised. People like you legitimize the frauds that are perpetrated on us every day. Are you using a Windows computer to write these posts? If you are so smart and have learned so much, why aren't you using a Mac? What about all the people without any technical background? Don't you think they have a right to buy an item that works as advertised? My Caddie works just like it's manual says it should and I do believe that car is a little more computerized than the HR20. I have never RBRed that.

#17 OFFLINE   bonscott87

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 10:52 AM

Are you using a Windows computer to write these posts? If you are so smart and have learned so much, why aren't you using a Mac?


LOL. I don't use a Mac because it can't run most of the programs I use, mostly games. ;) Has nothing to do with the OS or the UI or it's features.

#18 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 03:00 PM

You make some excellent points with one exception. According to you we should never have to learn anything, you want everything done for you. Sorry but that's
not the way the world works. Progress is made through learning, not having everything done for you.


I already went thru this with someone else. Read the postings, my answer to him is the same as I would give you. But I must ask you this, where in my posting did I say we should never have to learn anything? Are you really that lacking in comprehension?

As for wanting every thing done for me, yes I do. I have my lawn cut by a landscaping service, my housekeepers keep my home neat and tidy, I rarely do manual labor, I retired at 52 and aside from giving seminars and teaching at a local college for a couple years, I have done nothing but watch TV, play with my two dogs, hit baseballs and watch TV using components that work properly. I served my country honorably, worked for 30 years in scummy factories and I don't think expectling something as simple as a DVR to working properly out of the box is a lot to ask.

#19 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 20 March 2007 - 02:10 PM

I like the UI of the HR20 better than the Tivo UI. Though the peanut was a great remote, I used the Harmony 880 anyway, and now I use the Harmony 1000 in the living room, not using the HR20 remote at all. And in the master bedroom, I like the HR20 remote, I can navigate it in the dark as well, like I did the HR10 remote. It took getting used to, but I have decided that I like the HR20 more than the HR10-250.........oh no, let the bashing begin. That's my opinion.


They copied everything else from the TiVos, wouldn't you think they could have copied the peanut and make it operate these things?

#20 OFFLINE   Doug Brott

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Posted 20 March 2007 - 02:59 PM

They copied everything else from the TiVos, wouldn't you think they could have copied the peanut and make it operate these things?


I don't like the peanut, so count me a one who's happy they did the way that they did.
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