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Guest Message by DevFuse

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HR20 seems to be running Linux...possible GPL violations?


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266 replies to this topic

#251 OFFLINE   Drew2k

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 09:51 PM

Personally, as a sometime developer I have been helped immensely by the GPL - because it made further developments possible. We're discussing this on a board that is a Linux server running Apache, PHP and presumably MySQL.

This is not because they are free as in beer, which, for instance, vBulletin is not. This is because over the past 15 some-odd years developers have contributed massive amounts of time refining these things because they knew that others would not be exclusively profiting off of their efforts, but rather they would be providing a service that they themselves have benefited from in the past. Paying it forward, of sorts.

And I understand this perspective as well, but still fail to see how or why people would rail about it with such fervor ... that's just me I guess. :shrug:

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#252 OFFLINE   GregLee

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 11:09 PM

And I understand this perspective as well, but still fail to see how or why people would rail about it with such fervor ... that's just me I guess. :shrug:

I find it irritating that D* provides only a casual and oblique reference to the work of so many expert programmers who contributed their efforts to the public good, while D* is just in it for the money. The least they could do is provide a courteous acknowledgment of the great debt they owe. I'm sure that D*'s army of lawyers has made sure they can get away with saying no more than they do. Is that all that counts with you?
Greg

#253 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 11:23 PM

DirecTV would only be in violation of the GPL if they were actually modifying the kernel code and then they would only be liable to disclose their changes to the kernel. Any additional software that they write that runs under the Linux kernel they have no legal obligation to disclose.

Do you have any proof that they have made any kernel changes? Or are they simply using the Linux kernel to run their software on?


It was posted at other sites:
from system log of HR20-600, check who modified the kernel (bold)
kernel: Linux version 2.4.29-uclibc-brcm build version  ([B][U]dtvcm@nms-cm-build[/U][/B]) (gcc version 3.3.6) #1 Tue May 8 20:45:09 PDT 2007
kernel: Using Pace TLB configuration
kernel: Using Pace GPIO reboot code
kernel: Determined physical RAM map:
kernel:  memory: 10000000 @ 00000000 (usable)
kernel: User-defined physical RAM map:
kernel:  memory: 03000000 @ 00000000 (usable)
kernel:  memory: 05000000 @ 03000000 (usable)
kernel:  memory: 08000000 @ 08000000 (usable)
kernel: On node 0 totalpages: 65536
kernel: zone(0): 65536 pages.
kernel: zone(1): 0 pages.
kernel: zone(2): 0 pages.
kernel: Kernel command line: mtdparts=pace_dtv:384k@0k(loader),1408k@896k(kernel),14080k@2304k(rootfs),512k@384k(reserved) root=/dev/mtdblock2 rootfstype=squashfs console=/dev/null
kernel: Enable the cache parity protection for MIPS 5KC CPUs.
kernel: timer irq 65 end 62
kernel: Using 148.501 MHz high precision timer.
kernel: Calibrating delay loop... brcm timer int
kernel: 296.55 BogoMIPS
kernel: Memory: 174452k/262144k available (2229k kernel code, 87692k reserved, 152k data, 100k init, 0k highmem)
kernel: Dentry cache hash table entries: 32768 (order: 6, 262144 bytes)
kernel: Inode cache hash table entries: 16384 (order: 5, 131072 bytes)
kernel: Mount cache hash table entries: 512 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
kernel: Buffer cache hash table entries: 16384 (order: 4, 65536 bytes)
kernel: Page-cache hash table entries: 65536 (order: 6, 262144 bytes)
kernel: bcmrac: RAC mode=0xd0, floor=0x00000000, ceiling=0x0fffffff
kernel: Checking for 'wait' instruction...  available.
kernel: POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX
kernel: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ dev=242, vendor=1166, did=2421166
kernel: Setting up SATA controller, VD Rev=00000520, pll_war=0, sata2_war=0, sata2_on=1
kernel: SATA: Primary Bus Master Status Register offset = b0520000 + 00000300 = b0520300
kernel: SATA: before init Primary Bus Master Status reg = 0x00000000.
kernel: SATA: after init Primary Bus Master Status reg = 0x00000020.
kernel: SATA: Secondary Bus Master Status Register offset = b0520000 + 00000300 = b0520300
kernel: SATA: before init Secondary Bus Master Status reg = 0x00000000.
kernel: SATA: after init Secondary Bus Master Status reg = 0x00000060.
kernel: Linux NET4.0 for Linux 2.4
kernel: Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039
kernel: Initializing RT netlink socket
kernel: Starting kswapd
kernel: JFFS2 version 2.1. (C) 2001 Red Hat, Inc., designed by Axis Communications AB.
kernel: Squashfs 2.1-r2 (released 2004/12/15) (C) 2002-2004 Phillip Lougher
kernel: SGI XFS with realtime, no debug enabled
kernel: pty: 256 Unix98 ptys configured
kernel: HDLC line discipline: version $Revision: 3.7 $, maxframe=4096
kernel: N_HDLC line discipline registered.
kernel: loop: loaded (max 8 devices)
kernel: PPP generic driver version 2.4.2
kernel: PPP Deflate Compression module registered
kernel: PPP BSD Compression module registered
kernel: bcmemac_net_probe: ver 1
kernel: Broadcom BCM703822 Ethernet Network Device v1.0 May  8 2007 20:45:36
kernel: init_buffers: 96 descriptors initialized
kernel: init_buffers: 00000060 descriptors initialized, from flowctl
kernel: BCMINTMAC: Auto-negotiation timed-out
kernel: BCMINTMAC: 10 MB Half-Duplex (assumed)


#254 OFFLINE   Redlinetire

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 03:50 PM

I find it irritating that D* provides only a casual and oblique reference to the work of so many expert programmers who contributed their efforts to the public good, while D* is just in it for the money. The least they could do is provide a courteous acknowledgment of the great debt they owe. I'm sure that D*'s army of lawyers has made sure they can get away with saying no more than they do. Is that all that counts with you?


The best fortune cookie fortune I've ever received:

"He who expects no gratitude shall never be disappointed"
TiVo Series3 --> Toshiba 34HFX83 (CRT)

#255 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 04:10 PM

The best fortune cookie fortune I've ever received:

"He who expects no gratitude shall never be disappointed"

Then tell me what would be stimulus for all open source supporting ppl ?
Seems to me you never wrote a program. :(

#256 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 04:18 PM

It was posted at other sites:
from system log of HR20-600, check who modified the kernel (bold)

kernel: Linux version 2.4.29-uclibc-brcm build version  ([B][U]dtvcm@nms-cm-build[/U][/B]) (gcc version 3.3.6) #1 Tue May 8 20:45:09 PDT 2007
....


Custom Build <> Custom Code

(Nor does it indicate who even did the custom build for that matter, merely who the likely customer was.)

Cheers,
Tom

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My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#257 OFFLINE   Ken S

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 04:24 PM

And I understand this perspective as well, but still fail to see how or why people would rail about it with such fervor ... that's just me I guess. :shrug:


Drew,

Certainly the passion is nothing like that for HD channel launches :).

Seriously, the Open Source movement encompasses people that have dedicated great portions of their working lives to the products and the whole idea of Open Source software. They are truly "invested" in that movement and are going to be very apt to fight for strict adherence to the license.

On the other hand, if the group with legal standing is unwilling to take any action (legal or even PR related) on this issue (have they been asked?) then that should stand as either their agreement that DirecTV has done enough or they're not all that interested in protecting their rights under the license.

#258 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 04:27 PM

Tom, if you want go into details, you could use your own DVR ;), but there are strong indications of _customized_ kernel.
Please participate, don't hesitate to look inside your DVR's disk.

#259 OFFLINE   RCY

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 04:32 PM

...
On the other hand, if the group with legal standing is unwilling to take any action (legal or even PR related) on this issue (have they been asked?) then that should stand as either their agreement that DirecTV has done enough or they're not all that interested in protecting their rights under the license.


Spot on, Ken. :)

#260 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 04:37 PM

Tom, if you want go into details, you could use your own DVR ;), but there are strong indications of _customized_ kernel.
Please participate, don't hesitate to look inside your DVR's disk.


That's Ok. I'm happy reacting to the hard work of others in this thread. :)

Playing devils advocate for just a moment: Does a mention of the GPL and Linux really honor the many hard working programmers? To me it might and it might not, I'm not really sure.

My personal feelings on this topic haven't changed from my much earlier postings, btw.

Cheers,
Tom

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My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#261 OFFLINE   GregLee

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 05:44 PM

Tom, if you want go into details, you could use your own DVR ;), but there are strong indications of _customized_ kernel.
Please participate, don't hesitate to look inside your DVR's disk.

There are several ways to customize a Linux kernel that are perfectly normal for a user -- I've done it a number of times. You choose the drivers you want to compile, whether you want them to be modules, you may include proprietary closed source drivers, you choose which filesystems to use, what scheduling algorithm, what compiler and assembler. I don't think D* would have any reason to go beyond this ordinary sort of customization.
Greg

#262 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 06:14 PM

Would be looking into kernel and reading some text tell you about non-ordinary customization ? Or you prefer to see full source ? Then DTV must disclose it.

#263 OFFLINE   GregLee

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 06:23 PM

Or you prefer to see full source ? Then DTV must disclose it.

Must it? If you say so. I don't know much about this licensing stuff. I have some vague recollection that "disclosing" the source might mean no more than supplying a reference to where it may be obtained for the cost of distribution.
Greg

#264 OFFLINE   David MacLeod

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 06:29 PM

kernel: BCMINTMAC: Auto-negotiation timed-out
kernel: BCMINTMAC: 10 MB Half-Duplex (assumed)

OT, wonder whats causing the time-out/half duplex issue.
Dave MacLeod
S.I.H.

#265 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 08:39 PM

Wasn't connected to network that time.

#266 OFFLINE   adam1115

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 01:19 PM

Just curious if any progress was ever made on this.

It seems like we know for sure that the TiVo OS uses a modified linux kernel, will they be releasing the source for the THR-22 kernel?

#267 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 01:47 PM

You would have to take that up with TiVo.

In the meantime, this thread, which came from 2007, is closed. If you wish to discuss the GPL in regard to any of DIRECTV's more current offerings, please open a new thread. Thanks.
Opinions expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily reflect
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