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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Component Beats HDMI on HR20????


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21 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   cookpr

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 08:55 AM

Alright, this is my theory after going BluRay with a PS3 purchase this weekend, and thus needing to reclaim the HDMI slot the HR20 previously occupied on my SXRD - my OPPO DVD has the other HDMI.

Was very concerned I would be dissappointed with performance of the HR20 vi component, but am a bit perplexed that after tweaking and setting up the two sources for compairson purposes, I find the component to be a dead even with HDMI on HD material and component gets a slight edge on SD material - it just seems cleaner.

Maybe a had a few too many beers, or I was just in a haze from being immersed in Casino Royale on BluRay, but seems component is:

Cleaner on SD (same on HD)
Quicker when doing menu actions
Less noticeable artifacting
No audio dropouts

Can this be? Debunk or support my theory...HDMI is not the holy grail?

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#2 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 09:14 AM

Alright, this is my theory after going BluRay with a PS3 purchase this weekend, and thus needing to reclaim the HDMI slot the HR20 previously occupied on my SXRD - my OPPO DVD has the other HDMI.
Was very concerned I would be dissappointed with performance of the HR20 vi component, but am a bit perplexed that after tweaking and setting up the two sources for compairson purposes, I find the component to be a dead even with HDMI on HD material and component gets a slight edge on SD material - it just seems cleaner.
Maybe a had a few too many beers, or I was just in a haze from being immersed in Casino Royale on BluRay, but seems component is:
Cleaner on SD (same on HD)
Quicker when doing menu actions
Less noticeable artifacting
No audio dropouts
Can this be? Debunk or support my theory...HDMI is not the holy grail?

Can I have some of your beer please?
analog is analog, a continuous voltage change. Maybe you are seeing something from the D/A conversion.
Can I have some of your beer? :D
A.K.A VOS

#3 OFFLINE   tucker301

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 09:19 AM

All things being equal and confirmed as working 100%, there is no way that component beats HDMI.
Bad cable, bad port...maybe.

#4 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 09:24 AM

All things being equal and confirmed as working 100%, there is no way that component beats HDMI.
Bad cable, bad port...maybe.

The "missing factor": good beer [see the post]. :)
A.K.A VOS

#5 OFFLINE   cookpr

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 09:54 AM

Again, I am not saying its better on HD, just on par...(SD does seem slightly cleaner, but probalby on par)...

I was expecting things to be a little less crisp overall...

#6 OFFLINE   John4924

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 09:55 AM

All things being equal and confirmed as working 100%, there is no way that component beats HDMI.
Bad cable, bad port...maybe.


Maybe the "port" was not bad. Maybe he was drinking the "port" like it was beer! If he did, he could really be seeing things that are not there! (I like the tawny port myself):)

While I have your attention, is there any additional cost for having the 20HR? I could have sworn I saw something that said it was $9.99 per month to have this thing. Is the cost just like having a normal HD receiver, $4.99 per month? I am supposed to get my replacement one today. And if I replace the D* HD receivers that I currently have with the 20HR, is the service the same price (other than the front end lease cost)?:confused:

Cheers,
John

#7 OFFLINE   richlife

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 10:03 AM

Maybe the "port" was not bad. Maybe he was drinking the "port" like it was beer! If he did, he could really be seeing things that are not there! (I like the tawny port myself):)

While I have your attention, is there any additional cost for having the 20HR? I could have sworn I saw something that said it was $9.99 per month to have this thing. Is the cost just like having a normal HD receiver, $4.99 per month? I am supposed to get my replacement one today. And if I replace the D* HD receivers that I currently have with the 20HR, is the service the same price (other than the front end lease cost)?:confused:

Cheers,
John


The $4.99 DVR fee covers the cost of service for DVRs -- regardless of how many you have (I have 3 including 1 HR20). The $9.99 covers the cost of HD service, regardless of how many HD receivers or DVRs you have (at this point only one of my receivers, the HR20, is HD).
Rich Beaudry
UNC Tar Heel '69, '75
Woodworker, grandfather, DirecTV 1994
Whole-Home Slimline w/ SWM.
A) HR20-700: NR 4aa; HDMI Audio: HDMI, TOSLINK. Res-1080i; Native- On; eSata-No; Remote-RF (2).
B) HR23-700: NR 4aa; Video&Audio HDMI. Res.-720p; Native-On; Network-No; eSata-No; Remote-IR.
C) H23-600: NR 0440; HDMI. Res.-1080p; Native-On; eSata-No; Remote-IR.
TVs: A) Sony 50" Rear Proj KDS50A2000 & VIZIO 22" LCD M220VA; B) Sony 37" Rear Proj KDF37H1000; C) Toshiba 40" LCD 40FT1U

#8 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 10:04 AM

Maybe the "port" was not bad. Maybe he was drinking the "port" like it was beer! If he did, he could really be seeing things that are not there! (I like the tawny port myself):)

While I have your attention, is there any additional cost for having the 20HR? I could have sworn I saw something that said it was $9.99 per month to have this thing. Is the cost just like having a normal HD receiver, $4.99 per month? I am supposed to get my replacement one today. And if I replace the D* HD receivers that I currently have with the 20HR, is the service the same price (other than the front end lease cost)?:confused:

Cheers,
John

Too much "port" still: it's an HR-20
There is a DVR fee added to your account, it doesn't matter how many recorder you have though.
A.K.A VOS

#9 OFFLINE   cookpr

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 10:16 AM

I dont knowguys, I think I am backing up my own theory by searching the web, many articles about both being a wash when it comes to video quality...many proponents of Component over HDMI on other boards (stability, speed, etc), many cases of it depending on the source, TV, etc...

I guess each is in the eye of the beholder...

#10 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 10:20 AM

I dont knowguys, I think I am backing up my own theory by searching the web, many articles about both being a wash when it comes to video quality...many proponents of Component over HDMI on other boards (stability, speed, etc), many cases of it depending on the source, TV, etc...
I guess each is in the eye of the beholder...

Yeah like native on or off, but let's not go down that road here, please....
A.K.A VOS

#11 OFFLINE   Steve0296

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 10:21 AM

When I switched my HR10 from component to HDMI (by an HDMI->DVI cable, my tv has no HDMI) the picture improvement was startling - sharper, more vibrant. When my HR20 arrived, I had the installer connect it by component temporarily so he didn't have to mess with the other cables. Later I switched the HDMI from the HR10 to the HR20, and was surprised by the lack of improvement. The picture seemed no sharper and the colors were flatter. I didn't noticed a difference between SD and HD but I'm not sure I checked. I swtiched the HDMI back to the HR10 (which I'm keeping as a 2nd receiver).

Of course the digital connection should be better. And maybe there are settings that would improve things. But for whatever it's worth, my experience agrees with yours.

#12 OFFLINE   jhillestad

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 10:27 AM

There's nothing wrong with using component ... off course for copy protection reasons they make upconverting dvd's only hdmi but othr than that you cant tell the difference.

Its more of a connivence than anything..... even the xbox 360 uses just component but you must use the vga cable to upconvert because of DRM rules. So use component its great.

#13 OFFLINE   MarkJones

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 10:27 AM

I dont knowguys, I think I am backing up my own theory by searching the web, many articles about both being a wash when it comes to video quality...many proponents of Component over HDMI on other boards (stability, speed, etc), many cases of it depending on the source, TV, etc...

I guess each is in the eye of the beholder...


I haven't done an HDMI-Component A/B comparison on the HR20, but I did when I had my HR10-250. Like you, I saw no noticeable difference in quality between the two.

#14 OFFLINE   cookpr

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 10:29 AM

The one thing I will be curious about as time passes now that I am hooked up w/ Component is stability of the HR20...I previously had random problems that I though may be HDMI related...time will tell...

#15 OFFLINE   cookpr

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 10:31 AM

And I apologize for brining this topic up again...I just searched the archives and there must be 100-200 threads on HDMI versus Component.

Whoops....chalk it up to Monday...

Summary of all the threads: For most, there is no difference between the two other than it carries audio. For some, TV brand makes a difference...for some, HDMI is better, for others Component is better.

#16 OFFLINE   eahmjh

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 11:31 AM

On a good day going downhill with a tail wind component vs. hdmi might be equal, but lets look at the plain facts. To use component starting form the HR20, you have digital signal that must be converted to analog and then at the TV the component signal must be converted back to digital for the TV to be able to display it. Now with HDMI you have a digital source, HR20, sending the digital signal over a digital format, HDMI, to a digital TV, which in turn just displays the digital signal to the screen.

Do you catch my drift? With component you WILL have LOSES converting from digital to analog to digital. There is no way around it. The loses or conversion may be very tiny depending on your cables and TV or they could be huge. Using the HDMI guarantee virtually no loses because the is no conversion between the source and TV. Your situation may look exactly the same..
HR20-700: HDMI 1080i to Sony KDL-46XBR2
HR21-100: HDMI 720p to Sylvania 6632LG
H21-200: HDMI 720P to Sony KDL-26L5000
Monster Power Center HTS-3600MKII
Sony STR-DG800: Optical to HR20
Bose 301, VSC-10, 161 speakers
Velodyne VRP1000 subwoofer
AT9 5 LNB; Zinwel WB-68 Mulitswitch

#17 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 11:42 AM

To use component starting form the HR20, you have digital signal that must be converted to analog and then at the TV the component signal must be converted back to digital for the TV to be able to display it. Now with HDMI you have a digital source, HR20, sending the digital signal over a digital format, HDMI, to a digital TV, which in turn just displays the digital signal to the screen.

While this discourse cannot be disputed, it doesn't take into account what the eye perceives. As it turns out, a little smoothing does a signal good when it comes to digital TV. It takes some of the edge off making it look a little less "digital".

Digital sux!

#18 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 11:48 AM

While this discourse cannot be disputed, it doesn't take into account what the eye perceives. As it turns out, a little smoothing does a signal good when it comes to digital TV. It takes some of the edge off making it look a little less "digital".
Digital sux!

This is only true for analog eyes though.
I'm going digital very soon with an implant, but the connection is going to be in a very uncomfortable place. :D
A.K.A VOS

#19 OFFLINE   cygnusloop

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 11:53 AM

This is only true for analog eyes though.
I'm going digital very soon with an implant, but the connection is going to be in a very uncomfortable place. :D


!rolling !rolling !rolling !rolling !rolling !rolling

#20 OFFLINE   n3ntj

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 03:49 PM

Was very concerned I would be dissappointed with performance of the HR20 vi component, but am a bit perplexed that after tweaking and setting up the two sources for compairson purposes, I find the component to be a dead even with HDMI on HD material and component gets a slight edge on SD material - it just seems cleaner.

Can this be? Debunk or support my theory...HDMI is not the holy grail?


What kind of TV do you have?
HD Snob - "Friends Don't Let Friends Watch Cable".
Electrical/RF Engineer & Inspector
DirecTV Equipment: HR24-200, HR24-100, 5LNB Slimline, AM21, SWiM 8 installed (MRV)
HR-2x Configuration: Native OFF. Units OFF when not in use.
TVs: 2 Panasonic Plasma TV's each using HDMI (one 1080p/one 720p)
DirecTV customer since 1998. Plus HD DVR package w/ NHL Center Ice & MLB Extra Innings.
OTA Antenna: Homebrew UHF & VHF antennas w/ 30dB amplifier fed w/ RG-6 Quad-shield coax.




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