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Sky Angel Lifetime subscription changes


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73 replies to this topic

#61 OFFLINE   sansha

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 09:43 AM

So far as I can see, Sky Angel has the right to add or drop channels as they choose, as long as they provide the minimum they say they will. This is no different than Dish dropping Lifetime movie network or any of the other channels that demanded more than Dish wanted to spend to carry them. I don't see where anyone has the right to file a lawsuit. Dropping channels that become too expensive to carry or shuffling them around in packages, or asking for an increase is standard in cable/dish packages. True the lifetime subbers to sky angel (of which I'm one) don't have to pay any increases, but that doesn't mean that once sky angel adds a channel they have to keep it. So long as they provide the minimum, the lineup is up to them. I agree with the poster who said they could provide all audio/radio channels and still keep the contract.

If I wanted those channels, I'd pay the extra fee, but I already get them in the top 250 on dish, so paying the extra is not an issue for me.

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#62 OFFLINE   HDTVFanAtic

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 11:45 PM

I read Post # 47, and I didn't understand how this gives an answer of when SA lifetime subscribers will lose the 4 additional channels, or how SA will head off a lawsuit. :confused:

Let me add, I am not saying that the answer is not there, but that I don't understand.

Could somebody explain?

thanks for your time....


Section 4 of the lifetime agreement contract looks very simple to me


YOUr lifetime agreement guaranteed you minimum of 32 channels and any channels added at no additional charge. In legal terms this is breach of contract. don't give up your right to what you are already entitled and in fact already paid for!

You may want to include some or all of the following infor below:

Section 4 of lifetime agreement:

4.) The primary source of funding for the Dominion DBS Television and Radio System is expected to come from individual subscribers paying either an ongoing monthly subscription fee or by prepaying a lump-sum subscription for a period of years, During the first 30 months of operation DVS offered lifelong subscriptions for a one-time payment which is being discontinued for any new subscribers, For those who purchased the lifelong subscription it will last for the operating lifetime of the Dominion Sky y Angel domestic U,S, DBS service and for the lifetime of the subscriber and his or her spouse without any further monthly subscription fees and includes a minimum of 32 television and radio channels selected at Dominion's sole discretion, Once a lifelong subscription is activated to receive Sky Angel programming it is non-assignable and non-transferable, As you can see I am guaranteed NO further fee and a minimum of 32 channels. SA will clearly be in violation on both counts.

Your Desired Resolution:
I want any and all channels removed from lifetime subscribers including myself restored, effective immediately at NO COST. There will be NO modification of my original agreement in order to receive those channels. Furthermore I expect to receive a minimum of 32 channels as per the lifetime agreement. In addition I expect compensation for each day my service was turned off. I also want a signed statement from sky angel that they will cease forevermore all efforts to breach my contract.


again, the important section:

"includes a minimum of 32 television and radio channels selected at Dominion's sole discretion"

Dominion could give a lifetime sub 32 radio channels and cut off all your tv channels and not be in violation according to that contract - as long as they give a lifetime sub 32 channels in total - the channels are selected AT THEIR SOLE DISCRETION according to the posted contracted.

Thus, if they are giving you more than 32 channels, they have more than fullfilled their legal obligation - no matter what other intent was implied as that what is in the legally binding contract.

#63 OFFLINE   TNGTony

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 01:58 AM

If you what to get technical then, I could claim that the contract calls for 64 channels and they have been in violation of the agreement from the start!

"includes a minimum of 32 television and radio channels selected at Dominion's sole discretion"

There is not an "or" there. There is an "and"

By extension that could be interpreted to mean 32 Radio AND 32 TV channels.

:)

Two can play the misinterpretation of the spirit of the agreement game!

See ya
Tony
For the life of me I will never understand why people will pay hundreds and thousands of dollars on a TV that provides the clearest, sharpest, most realistic picture possible and then, voluntarily, distort the image!

"Dish Channel Chart"
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#64 OFFLINE   HDTVFanAtic

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 11:14 PM

If you what to get technical then, I could claim that the contract calls for 64 channels and they have been in violation of the agreement from the start!

"includes a minimum of 32 television and radio channels selected at Dominion's sole discretion"

There is not an "or" there. There is an "and"

By extension that could be interpreted to mean 32 Radio AND 32 TV channels.

:)

Two can play the misinterpretation of the spirit of the agreement game!

See ya
Tony



In all due respect, if that is what you think it means, you would be well advised to have lawyer look over any contract you sign and not leave it up to how you think the law reads.

As there were not 32 radio channels and not even 32 television stations supplied when the agreement was signed (or now), it would be impossible to interpret it in the way you stated - and you should have voided the contract at that time if you had any problem with it.

There is a very clear meaning to the phrase - not as you say "could be interpreted to mean" - and it would hold up in any court of law.

#65 OFFLINE   TNGTony

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 10:16 AM

The meaning is only as clear as long as the parties agree to the meaning or if it is clearly and unambiguously defined. The meaning is not clearly or unabiguaously difined on the contract. So if the position is you can claim that since the original state of things were 16 radio and 16 TV channels for a total of 32 channels and this is what the line in the contract means; and they can change the TV and radio channels at their discression, then you CANNOT argue that they could change all the TV channels to radio channels because that was not the implied or inferred meaning.

My point is if SA wants to play the "interpretation game". Others know how to play too and that is when things can get messy!

See ya
Tony
For the life of me I will never understand why people will pay hundreds and thousands of dollars on a TV that provides the clearest, sharpest, most realistic picture possible and then, voluntarily, distort the image!

"Dish Channel Chart"
"Local Channels available and coming to Dish"
"TV Market Maps"

#66 OFFLINE   HDTVFanAtic

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 11:11 PM

The meaning is only as clear as long as the parties agree to the meaning or if it is clearly and unambiguously defined. The meaning is not clearly or unabiguaously difined on the contract. So if the position is you can claim that since the original state of things were 16 radio and 16 TV channels for a total of 32 channels and this is what the line in the contract means; and they can change the TV and radio channels at their discression, then you CANNOT argue that they could change all the TV channels to radio channels because that was not the implied or inferred meaning.

My point is if SA wants to play the "interpretation game". Others know how to play too and that is when things can get messy!

See ya
Tony


Clearly you have never dealt with contracts in a court of law. I never said 16 and 16.

The language is very clear and will hold up.

Of course, if you have money to throw away, go for it.

Your attorney will love the billable hours as no reputable attorney would take this on contingency - and if you manage to cost Sky Angel enough in attorney costs so they go bankrupt, Charlie would love you as it would give him several more transponders back.

#67 OFFLINE   TNGTony

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Posted 24 May 2007 - 08:50 PM

Are you a lawyer? Because I never said you said 16 and 16. You made a comment about how thing were originally (32 channels) and I extended that same argument to include that the original state of things was 16 and 16. If YOUR argument is valid, so is mine. And yes, I deal with contracts all the time! I also ran this passed two lawyers (one a relative the other one a co-worker and a former Ohio State Representative who served on the legislative committee.) Both say the contract is so vague, it could be held up in court for years and the outcome is not certain either way. It would come down to who hired the most convincing lawyer! :)

See ya
Tony
For the life of me I will never understand why people will pay hundreds and thousands of dollars on a TV that provides the clearest, sharpest, most realistic picture possible and then, voluntarily, distort the image!

"Dish Channel Chart"
"Local Channels available and coming to Dish"
"TV Market Maps"

#68 OFFLINE   quiverof8

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Posted 23 June 2007 - 12:37 AM

they started yesterday :( Of course they just happened to shut off ALL the channels by "mistake" rather than just the 4 secular channels for some lifetimers. Now it will take "24 hours" to turn on the channels they never should have turned off!

anyone else have the "special 4" turned off? If so did you return the paper? with/without smart card/receiver #s?

Personally didn't send back anything. I wasn't going to help them turn off my channels! I am so glad I didn't fall for the prepay for a year to get the special 4. Guess what in a year or less SA will switch to IPTV!!!!

#69 OFFLINE   Michael P

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Posted 23 June 2007 - 09:10 AM

Personally didn't send back anything. I wasn't going to help them turn off my channels!

That is probably why you got shut off!
I did send back the flier, but soon my receiver will be swapped out. In the past that was not a problem because E* took care of everything. Do I now need to tell SA the new receiver & smart card numbers?
An E* subscriber continuously since February 1997.

#70 OFFLINE   dahenny

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Posted 23 June 2007 - 12:46 PM

That is probably why you got shut off!
I did send back the flier, but soon my receiver will be swapped out. In the past that was not a problem because E* took care of everything. Do I now need to tell SA the new receiver & smart card numbers?


I sent my letter in, with a NO! on the extra 4 channels, but I DID NOT give them my receiver numbers. My signal is still on.:grin:

#71 OFFLINE   quiverof8

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 02:50 PM

I did NOT send in the form and did NOT get my channels secualr or otherwise removed (yet anyway). Other people however did lose ALL their channels.

those letters were a fishing expedition in preparation for IPTV1 they ere trying to figure out how many lifetime subs they have, how many are still viewers and how many might shell out more $ for IPTV! After all if you were willing to spend $4.99 to KEEP channels you already have you are more likely to shell out another $5 or $10 for IPTV

all this after the skewed VIEWER ADVSORY questionairre about IPTV. the questionairre only get sent to those with internet access. What about those viewers lifetime and monthly who never get surveyed as they do not have internet! Even if some do they may not have high speed to be able to get IPTV. sky angel is walking out on both monthly and lifetime subs with the move to IPTV

#72 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 03:47 PM

SkyAngel was interested in the number of subscribers who would potentially follow them to IPTV. Asking those with no internet access doesn't help ... the decision to leave satellite was likely a done deal - they were most likely just looking ahead for planning purposes to see how big of an IPTV service they have to build (especially if they offer the DVR like services including 48 hour rewind of any channel).

We still have not seen a list or an US price for what SkyAngel will be doing on IPTV. Hopefully it is better than the Canadian offering that we have been basing the conversation on. It does appear that SkyAngel is cleaning the slate and starting over as an IPTV company.

#73 OFFLINE   Michael P

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 04:56 PM

Well SA turned off my channels Wednesday (although I did not catch it until Thursday - an E* tech said they got a cutoff request via a spreadsheet from the client (i.e. Sky Angel)). I had to call SA to have the channels turned back on. I told them that I had recently had a swap in receiver and that the receiver numbers that I put on the reply card had changed. The SA CSR said that they never got my reply card in the mail!?! (I filled it out and sent it back the same day it arrived in the mail) She asked me if I wanted the 4 channels and I said no, I get them from E*, why should I pay for them twice. She sent an order to E* to have me turned back on and everything including the "secular 4" came back on.
An E* subscriber continuously since February 1997.

#74 OFFLINE   quiverof8

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 12:47 AM

so far everyone who has been "shut off" has had ALL channels when they turn them back on. that includes the "special 4". funny thing is that even those who sent in the form and said NO still have them! So it seems that either Sky Angel doesn't have the capability to JUST shut off 4 stations, they have changed their mind but can't bother telling us or there was a bigger reason behind THE letter and making us call to have our channels turned back on!

to add insult to injury lifetime members have started to receive BILLS from SKY ANGEL! I am not sure if its funny or sad but the "amount due" is ZERO!!! So what is the purpose of this latest bill/mailing besides wasting postage on lifetime members?

Right about now a letter from sky angel to the lifetimers saying ooops we were wrong and will not shut off your channels would go a looooong way toward mending fences. They NEED lifetimers to follow them to IPTV. Even if they did give them an IPTV lifetime membership for the life of SKY ANGEL the positive , word of mouth advertising would do more for them that all the free drawings etc they can dream up. Granted not all can due to the internet requirements, then again its not possible for all monthly subs to follow either. If people leave, you want them to leave satisfied if not happy. Granted their #s are up due to adding Canada IPTV however they will drop once they switch the US to IPTV.

I almost hate to mention his name but remember Howard Stern? He made a big deal about going to sirrus Satellite radio (I think thats what it was called). He made an even bigger stink when his "loyal viewers" didn't follow him! I hope sky angel has a plan for picking up a new subscriber base as there are a lot of rumblings going on with the current one and the natives are restless!




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