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Guest Message by DevFuse

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CAN'T view local OTA HD Fox channel in HR-20, but WILL work direct on TV's Tuner Why?


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11 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Sominex30

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Posted 01 April 2007 - 03:52 PM

I can view the Philadelphia Fox station (29-1) just fine if I view it with my Vizio TV's internal tuner getting the signal from the roof antenna hooked into it.

But when I switch over to the satelite input, the HR-20 shows the channel (29-1)in the guide but when I go to watch it it says there is NO signal.

From what I can tell all the other channels work fine OTA, and on the HR-20 Guide.


Currently I have the big antenna on the roof running into a splitter

> One line going direct into the HD TV (Vizio GVL42 LCD) from the splitter
> One line going into the "Antenna In" on the HR-20 from the splitter

I have not had a problem until today. Can anyone advise?

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#2 OFFLINE   Drewg5

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Posted 01 April 2007 - 04:20 PM

I had this problem in the past on a channel I didn't even know I had. Your guide data might be bad. The info in the Guide contains the channel numbers to tune to. At one time I would have told you to RBR, but now the guide data is cashed to the hard drive so it doesn't take forever to rebuild.

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#3 OFFLINE   n3ntj

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 09:29 AM

It may be overdrive from the tower as well. The tuners of the HR20 units and TVs are a little different. I've noticed, at times, that I can get some channels via the HR20 that don't come in via the TV and vice versa. If the signal is too strong, one of the tuners may not 'see' it. It can be guide issues, too, like mentioned above.
HD Snob - "Friends Don't Let Friends Watch Cable".
Electrical/RF Engineer & Inspector
DirecTV Equipment: HR24-200, HR24-100, 5LNB Slimline, AM21, SWiM 8 installed (MRV)
HR-2x Configuration: Native OFF. Units OFF when not in use.
TVs: 2 Panasonic Plasma TV's each using HDMI (one 1080p/one 720p)
DirecTV customer since 1998. Plus HD DVR package w/ NHL Center Ice & MLB Extra Innings.
OTA Antenna: Homebrew UHF & VHF antennas w/ 30dB amplifier fed w/ RG-6 Quad-shield coax.

#4 OFFLINE   Sominex30

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 11:16 AM

I had this problem in the past on a channel I didn't even know I had. Your guide data might be bad. The info in the Guide contains the channel numbers to tune to. At one time I would have told you to RBR, but now the guide data is cashed to the hard drive so it doesn't take forever to rebuild.


So what would a good solution be? I am a bit confused about your response because I am new to the scene. Any more detail you could give me would be great!

And what is RBR? :)

#5 OFFLINE   hilmar2k

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 11:29 AM

So what would a good solution be? I am a bit confused about your response because I am new to the scene. Any more detail you could give me would be great!

And what is RBR? :)


RBR = Red Button Reset

#6 OFFLINE   n3ntj

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 04:01 PM

Sominex, have you ever tried inserting an attenuator in the line feeding the HR20 and seeing if the channel is received then? The HR20 may be getting overdriven but the TV's ATSC tuner may be more forgiving.
HD Snob - "Friends Don't Let Friends Watch Cable".
Electrical/RF Engineer & Inspector
DirecTV Equipment: HR24-200, HR24-100, 5LNB Slimline, AM21, SWiM 8 installed (MRV)
HR-2x Configuration: Native OFF. Units OFF when not in use.
TVs: 2 Panasonic Plasma TV's each using HDMI (one 1080p/one 720p)
DirecTV customer since 1998. Plus HD DVR package w/ NHL Center Ice & MLB Extra Innings.
OTA Antenna: Homebrew UHF & VHF antennas w/ 30dB amplifier fed w/ RG-6 Quad-shield coax.

#7 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 04:18 PM

We probably need more information.

What level of signal are you getting on the vizio for that channel? Is it strong? Weak? Does it fluctuate?

If it is strong but bouncy (constantly changing) you may be looking at a multipath issue that the HR20 can't handle. If it is very strong then you could be overloading the HR20. If it is weak but locking on the TV, it could be that the Vizio tuner is more senstivite.

Then what does the signal meter on the HR20 say? Do you get any signal on the channel at all? How are you on other stations?

How far are you to the tower?

All this matters in determining what your problem may be. The solutions can be very different (or not). Often it is just moving the antenna around no matter what the issue. But it may mean you need to attenuate your signal. Or ampifly it.

Bottom line, don't depend on getting a picture or not. Use your meters to get the best situation you can for all kinds of weather conditions, etc.
LR: HR34-700, H24-200, Fios DVR, BD350 Blu Ray, Roku Netflix Player, Chromecast, Sony 65w850 TV
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#8 OFFLINE   baesterling

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:43 PM

We probably need more information.

What level of signal are you getting on the vizio for that channel? Is it strong? Weak? Does it fluctuate?

If it is strong but bouncy (constantly changing) you may be looking at a multipath issue that the HR20 can't handle. If it is very strong then you could be overloading the HR20. If it is weak but locking on the TV, it could be that the Vizio tuner is more senstivite.

Then what does the signal meter on the HR20 say? Do you get any signal on the channel at all? How are you on other stations?

How far are you to the tower?

All this matters in determining what your problem may be. The solutions can be very different (or not). Often it is just moving the antenna around no matter what the issue. But it may mean you need to attenuate your signal. Or ampifly it.

Bottom line, don't depend on getting a picture or not. Use your meters to get the best situation you can for all kinds of weather conditions, etc.


I have a very similar problem. My signal strength is in the 90s, but it fluxuates about 6% up and down (i.e., bounces). I am pretty sure this is multipath. Is the best solution (besides replacing the antenna) an attenuator? I have installed one, lowered this signal strength, but it still bounces a bit. Are there any other solutions to multipath? The problem I am experiencing is sound dropouts and some pixelization. I am about 27 miles from the towers and have a clear view of the sky.

#9 OFFLINE   Sominex30

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 10:47 AM

Sorry for the delay! Here is all the information I have:



[quote name='tonyd79'] We probably need more information.

What level of signal are you getting on the vizio for that channel? Is it strong? Weak? Does it fluctuate?[/QUOTE]

Signal seems OK sometimes on the Vizio Tuner. I do notice that it fades in and out though. The screen will lock up, and then get pixelated before it comes back in. I don't think I have a screen/tool to check the actual "signal strength" on the Vizio though

It all worked fine with the no issue about 3 weeks ago though


[quote name='tonyd79'] If it is strong but bouncy (constantly changing) you may be looking at a multipath issue that the HR20 can't handle. If it is very strong then you could be overloading the HR20. If it is weak but locking on the TV, it could be that the Vizio tuner is more senstivite. [/QUOTE]

What is multipath?

[quote name='tonyd79'] Then what does the signal meter on the HR20 say? Do you get any signal on the channel at all? How are you on other stations? [/QUOTE]

Upon checking signal strength in the menu for the Off Air Antenna:

29-1 "Off Air Tuner 1" NOT ACQUIRED
"Off Air Tuner 1" NOT ACQUIRED

I have the same message for some of the other locals as well, but they are the minor smaller station. All the other majro network locals come in fine and have signal strength of 76% or higher on the "Off Air Antenna" signal strength meter through the HR-20 700


The other "smaller" station I am not receiving is 39-1 (and all of it's subsets). I'd never heard of it till now. it is LISTED on the HR-20 700 Guide channel, but also has no signal strength. They also DO NOT APPEAR on the Vizio channel listing.

29-1 DOES appear on both guides though

[quote name='tonyd79']
How far are you to the tower?
[/QUOTE]

20.6 Miles away


All this matters in determining what your problem may be. The solutions can be very different (or not). Often it is just moving the antenna around no matter what the issue. But it may mean you need to attenuate your signal. Or ampifly it.

Bottom line, don't depend on getting a picture or not. Use your meters to get the best situation you can for all kinds of weather conditions, etc. [/QUOTE]

So, what do you think?

Here are some other things I've noticed that may or may no impact this situation. And if ANYONE has an answer to these, I'd love the help.

1. I recorded 2 programs at the same time on the HR-20 last night. Obviously 1 on each tuner. I went to record a THIRD program on the Off Air Tuner, and it said I could not! I selected the appropritate off air feed from the HR-20 Guide, but it would not let me stating "Already recording using 2 tuners. Select one of the tuners to cancel current recording"

The instruction manual states that I CAN record something from the off air antenna if both HR-20 Satelite Tuners are already recording something.

2. Why is it all pictures from HD Satelite sources fill up the whole screen but SOME DVD's still leave the black bars at the top and bottom of the screen?

3. Given my location of Wilmington, DE (19810) Philadelphia is my closest "local market". Are there any other nearby markets I can pick up? I have heard of people picking up a "secondary market" from 50 or so miles away.

TonyD (and everyone else) Thanks guys!


-Sominex

#10 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 11:05 AM

You can only record two programs at a time. the manual is wrong.
The "bouncing" signal strength is a sign of multi-path problems. This is when two [or more] signal paths come to the antenna [from the same station]. Using a more direction antenna is about all you can do & pointing it straight at the "prime" signal source.
All ATSC tuners have problems with multi-path, but some newer [5 th generation chips] seem to do better.
Adding a second market area [zip code] is done in the OTA setup menu/guide.

Some DVDs are not 16:9 aspect but more like 20:9, but it's call something like 1.85:1 verses 1.77:1
A.K.A VOS

#11 OFFLINE   Sominex30

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 02:05 PM

You can only record two programs at a time. the manual is wrong.
The "bouncing" signal strength is a sign of multi-path problems. This is when two [or more] signal paths come to the antenna [from the same station]. Using a more direction antenna is about all you can do & pointing it straight at the "prime" signal source.
All ATSC tuners have problems with multi-path, but some newer [5 th generation chips] seem to do better.
Adding a second market area [zip code] is done in the OTA setup menu/guide.

Some DVDs are not 16:9 aspect but more like 20:9, but it's call something like 1.85:1 verses 1.77:1



Damn, is the misprint in the HR-20 Manual common knowledge!?? I was excited to be able to record THREE things at once.

Ever have any problems with audio sync issue with your HR-20?

#12 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 02:39 PM

Damn, is the misprint in the HR-20 Manual common knowledge!?? I was excited to be able to record THREE things at once.

Ever have any problems with audio sync issue with your HR-20?

Well "here" it's common knowledge [for a while]. Sorry
Audio sync has come up, but [for me] most of the time it's been the station as the cause.
A.K.A VOS




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