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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Suggestion for next software release. Audio normalization


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12 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   kkozma

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 08:51 AM

If my iPod can normalize all of the different 100's of MP3's stored on it, you'd think that a complex piece of equipment such as our 622's should be able to do the same.

I'm starting to get really tired of having to crank my TV to hear certain programs and then get blasted off my couch when I change channels. There is NO happy medium volume level that I can find where an acceptable listening level can be achieved for all of the content Dish provides.

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#2 OFFLINE   Hall

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 09:26 AM

My TV takes care of this for me. It's gotten reset (by mistake ??) a time or two and my wife and I almost immediately catch it.... Well, the blaring commercials make it pretty easy to notice ! :)

#3 OFFLINE   Rob Glasser

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 12:41 PM

I would love to see something like this, not sure how hard it would be add. I know Dolby is working on a product to do this as well, Dolby Volume, announced at CES this year. I've heard that a lot of the products in TVs/Receivers today really hurt the overall quality of the sound. I'm guessing this isn't a big deal on TVs since your quality it's typically going to be anywhere near that of a good quality Dolby Digital surround system with good speakers.
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#4 OFFLINE   Mike D-CO5

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 01:08 PM

I am having issues with the sound blairing loudly when a timer kicks in on the other tuner or the ota tuner. It will cause my tuner that I am on to turn up the volume on that tuner and I have to turn it way down. This was introduced in L. 4.01. This in addition to the normal difference in sound between dolby digital 5.1 and pcm.

#5 OFFLINE   twindaddy

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 05:18 PM

For me it seems binary: Channels in Dolby Digital (typically all the HD channels) are very soft. Channels in Dolby Pro-Logic/Stereo are much louder. I think this is partially due to the wide dynamic range of Dolby Digital. My receiver has a function to compress the Dolby Digital dynamic range which helps a bit. Nevertheless, I do find myself leaping off the couch at 1am to turn down the volume after changing a channel.

#6 OFFLINE   ls7dude

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 08:54 PM

If you take notice, the difference is betwen HD and non HD channels. Previously to 4.03, my channel volume was the same, between HD and SD. Now, hold on tight to the couch if you go from high volume on HD to SD. If my speaker gets blown out because of this I'm going to be pissed.

#7 OFFLINE   Slordak

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 01:20 PM

This isn't a Dish problem; this is a specification problem. Dolby Digital audio is generally mastered at a lower audio level than conventional analog audio sources. You should experience this exact same effect when playing a DVD; you have to crank the volume on your receiver up to a much higher level than when watching a movie off, say, a standard definition movie channel. From a guide on the topic:

"-31 dBFS is a lower average volume level than what is typical from other sources. It will be noticeable that you will have to turn the volume up on your system when playing a DVD versus playing broadcast, tape, or other non-Dolby Digital program material."

#8 OFFLINE   tnsprin

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 02:16 PM

If my iPod can normalize all of the different 100's of MP3's stored on it, you'd think that a complex piece of equipment such as our 622's should be able to do the same.

I'm starting to get really tired of having to crank my TV to hear certain programs and then get blasted off my couch when I change channels. There is NO happy medium volume level that I can find where an acceptable listening level can be achieved for all of the content Dish provides.


This is not a feature I want the 622 to do. I don't want it monkeying with the audio at all. Of course I think the complaints should go to the Program providers if the sound levels are outside the 6db or so that represent DD vs PCM.
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#9 OFFLINE   wje

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 02:19 PM

Completely correct. This is not new with 403, it's been that way since as long as I've had my receiver. The Dolby website has information on this buried somewhere in its depths.

As far as I know, the 622 doesn't do volume processing on the Dolby stream, other than the rf vs line mode compression, which itself is part of the Dolby spec. It's just passing on what it gets.

Of course, what Dolby says is that this normalization is what they recommend; there's nothing that forces someone to actually normalize to that level.

As for the 622 doing the same kind of normalization that the IPod does, or other normalization like ReplayGain, note that they have to analyze the entire song or album in advance. Otherwise, how could they know the peak volume?

One thing that could be done would be a simple 'normalization bias' setting or somesuch, to increase or decrease all Dolby feeds by a fixed amount. OTOH, E* could just as well argue, and correctly, that the device actually decoding the Dolby audio should do it.
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#10 OFFLINE   Skates

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 02:19 PM

I am having issues with the sound blairing loudly when a timer kicks in on the other tuner or the ota tuner. It will cause my tuner that I am on to turn up the volume on that tuner and I have to turn it way down. This was introduced in L. 4.01. This in addition to the normal difference in sound between dolby digital 5.1 and pcm.


Mike, I had this bug on 3.66 - even started a thread about it. Unfortunately, I still have it with 4.03.

http://www.dbstalk.c...ead.php?t=76997

#11 OFFLINE   Hall

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 02:31 PM

This is not a feature I want the 622 to do. I don't want it monkeying with the audio at all. Of course I think the complaints should go to the Program providers if the sound levels are outside the 6db or so that represent DD vs PCM.

Have to agree there. The less they touch, the less there is to break.... As soon as they do something like this, another audio-related issue will crop up !

#12 OFFLINE   Hall

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 02:32 PM

As for the 622 doing the same kind of normalization that the IPod does, or other normalization like ReplayGain, note that they have to analyze the entire song or album in advance. Otherwise, how could they know the peak volume?

Yeah, that would be hard to do on live TV, wouldn't it ?? :D

How does my Toshiba TV do it ?? I can assure you, if that setting is disabled, my wife and I notice it the first time a commercial comes on !

#13 OFFLINE   wje

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 04:01 PM

Yeah, that would be hard to do on live TV, wouldn't it ?? :D

How does my Toshiba TV do it ?? I can assure you, if that setting is disabled, my wife and I notice it the first time a commercial comes on !


It's probably compressing the range, i.e., if the volume normally goes from 0..100, squish down the highs so it only goes 0..70. This is what the RF mode setting on the 622 does, except it sort of squishes 0..100 into 30..70. In any case, the compression is not uniformly applied. The louder the source gets, the more the volume is reduced. This is quite adequate for most cases.
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