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HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray War Thread - Update: Toshiba formally announces end of HD DVD


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#3101 OFFLINE   Cholly

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Posted 27 September 2008 - 07:01 PM

Well, today when my middle grandson turned on my 40 Gig PS3 to play a game, he was greeted by a dark screen. The HDMI video output appears to have gone west. I've tried all the solutions offered on the Sony web site to no avail, so I'm going to have to ship the unit back to Sony for warranty repair or replacement. I've only had it since June 2. I've never run a Blu-ray movie through it, but my grandkids have been playing games on it for some 2 months. :(

Update: In the process of trying to get the HDMI output to work, I installed the A/V cable so I could communicate with the PS3, and reset the system to defaults as suggested on Sony's support site, and then tried activating the HDMI output per their instructions, all to no avail.
Along the way, after reactivating network support, I downloaded the latest software update. After the update completed, I tried again to get the HDMI output working, with no success. I resigned myself to having to send the PS3 back, reset to defaults without network access and shut everything down.
Fast forward to today. My oldest grandson turned the TV and PS3 on this morning, and everything worked!! No need for repairs! Oh, joy, oh, frabjous day! :hurah: :jump3: :icon_band :jumpingja :icon_kiff

Charlie
--------------------

Family Room: Samsung UN60F7100 60" LED 3D TV; Samsung  BD-H5900 3D Blu-Ray DVD player; Yamaha RX-V663 AVR. Paradigm speakers - Focus fronts, CC170 center, PDR-8 subwoofer, Atom surrounds, ADP rear center; TiVo Roamio Plus DVR, Toshiba HD-A3 HD DVD player.
Bedroom: Vizio 42" 3D TV, Pioneer VSX-521-K AVR, Panasonic 3D DVD player, Energy Take Classic 5.1 speakers, Roku 2 XD, TiVo Premiere, Insignia HD radio tuner, Toshiba HD DVD player


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#3102 OFFLINE   Bobby H

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 01:31 PM

The PS3 is still the best overall Blu-ray player.

The major reasons is that it loads movies much faster than any standalone player on the market, even players that cost double or more than the PS3. The gaming console also downloads BD Live content much faster than other Profile 2.0 standalone players on the market. The companies making standalone Blu-ray players really have to get those performance issues solved, especially on the high end models.

One other factor that helps the PS3 is that all the movie studios test their BD releases on the PS3. The recent news of the Iron Man BD disc recall highlighted this advantage. Certain standalone Sony and Samsung BD players couldn't play the disc whereas the PS3 had no problem playing the same defective discs. Hopefully Paramount will have the fixed copies on Iron Man in stores before Tuesday.

The only obvious drawback I see with PS3 is that it doesn't output the undecoded bit streams of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD audio tracks. It internally decodes the audio streams and outputs them as uncompressed multichannel linear PCM. The most recent 2.43 PS3 firmware update added more features to the internal DTS-HD decoder (more modes of support for DTS-ES and DTS 96/24).

Rumors suggest by the time PS3 gets to the 2.50 firmware update a screen shot feature may be added so viewers can take frame grabs and turn them into PS3 wall paper or a variety of other uses.

#3103 OFFLINE   NickD

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 07:44 PM

Well, today when my middle grandson turned on my 40 Gig PS3 to play a game, he was greeted by a dark screen. The HDMI video output appears to have gone west. I've tried all the solutions offered on the Sony web site to no avail, so I'm going to have to ship the unit back to Sony for warranty repair or replacement. I've only had it since June 2. I've never run a Blu-ray movie through it, but my grandkids have been playing games on it for some 2 months. :(

Update: In the process of trying to get the HDMI output to work, I installed the A/V cable so I could communicate with the PS3, and reset the system to defaults as suggested on Sony's support site, and then tried activating the HDMI output per their instructions, all to no avail.
Along the way, after reactivating network support, I downloaded the latest software update. After the update completed, I tried again to get the HDMI output working, with no success. I resigned myself to having to send the PS3 back, reset to defaults without network access and shut everything down.
Fast forward to today. My oldest grandson turned the TV and PS3 on this morning, and everything worked!! No need for repairs! Oh, joy, oh, frabjous day! :hurah: :jump3: :icon_band :jumpingja :icon_kiff



Did you try a new cable? My HDMI cable is loose on my PS3 and I need to jiggle it for my receiver to get a signal. Might be worth a try, if you haven't already.
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#3104 OFFLINE   Cholly

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 01:44 PM

Did you try a new cable? My HDMI cable is loose on my PS3 and I need to jiggle it for my receiver to get a signal. Might be worth a try, if you haven't already.


Yes, I tried other cables, removing HDMI switch from the path, and still had no luck. Once it came up running again, I reinstalled the switch in the path and all is just fine.

Charlie
--------------------

Family Room: Samsung UN60F7100 60" LED 3D TV; Samsung  BD-H5900 3D Blu-Ray DVD player; Yamaha RX-V663 AVR. Paradigm speakers - Focus fronts, CC170 center, PDR-8 subwoofer, Atom surrounds, ADP rear center; TiVo Roamio Plus DVR, Toshiba HD-A3 HD DVD player.
Bedroom: Vizio 42" 3D TV, Pioneer VSX-521-K AVR, Panasonic 3D DVD player, Energy Take Classic 5.1 speakers, Roku 2 XD, TiVo Premiere, Insignia HD radio tuner, Toshiba HD DVD player


#3105 OFFLINE   toneman

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 04:37 PM

TThe only obvious drawback I see with PS3 is that it doesn't output the undecoded bit streams of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD audio tracks. It internally decodes the audio streams and outputs them as uncompressed multichannel linear PCM.

Coming in late to this thread, but...how is the lack of TrueHD/DTS-HD MA bitstreaming capability on the PS3 necessarily a drawback? If anything, the fact that the PS3 can internally decode those HD audio formats instead of bitstreaming them is a benefit for those folks who own receivers that can't decode bitstreamed TrueHD and/or DTS-HD MA but can receive uncompressed multi-channel PCM audio (if connected via HDMI). You do know that there is no discernable difference in audio quality between an uncompressed PCM soundtrack vs. the same soundtrack encoded in TrueHD or DTS-HD MA? All three are loseless audio codecs...so the end result would be that you'd hear no difference in audio quality among them.

Seriously--the only realized benefit one could get from bitstreaming TrueHD/DTS-HD MA to a receiver that can decode either one (vs. having the player internally decode it) is that you get to see the nice fancy "TrueHD" or DTS-HD MA indicator light up on your receiver's display panel. ;)

#3106 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 06:02 PM

Is the PS3 still the best blu-ray player?

The PS3 is still the best overall Blu-ray player.

Never was...never will be. Its a game machine that happens to play Blu Ray disks.

Granted, Sony had some good foresight to do include a BD disk unit inside, but stats also show that over 70% of PS3 owners are disk renters, not buyers....so Sony won't be making many royalty $$$$ on disks from that device.

In fact, the biggest beneficiary are the Netflix and Blockbuster organizations.

...anf for the PS3 lovers out there...please note that when you place one next to a real player, especially a newer Profile 2.0 unit, the imagery and audio are inferior to the real player. I've now seen 3 of those comparisons in person, and PS3 comes in 2nd every time. I would not have expected more. Again....its a game machine....a very good game machine....but a game machine nonetheless (and a bit too noisy too :D ),
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#3107 OFFLINE   dettxw

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 07:12 PM

Seriously--the only realized benefit one could get from bitstreaming TrueHD/DTS-HD MA to a receiver that can decode either one (vs. having the player internally decode it) is that you get to see the nice fancy "TrueHD" or DTS-HD MA indicator light up on your receiver's display panel. ;)

Yep, that's why we bought those fancy receivers. :lol:

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#3108 OFFLINE   B Newt

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 07:56 PM

What is the frame rate for the PS3. Where can I find the specs for the PS3 blue ray?

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#3109 OFFLINE   Brandon428

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 08:00 PM

I find the PS3 to be the best BD Player unless you want to spend 2,000!:nono2:

#3110 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 08:06 PM

Saw four different Blu Ray units on sale this weekend at Best Buy....one for $224, the others all under $300. Clearly, the prices continue to drop, and will do so through the holidays as many have forecast.

What's equally good news is that the disks themselves are also starting to be reduced a bit. Once the average new release Blu ray gets to $19.99 or so....they'll be selling as hot as standard DVDs.

Seeing the success of Iron Man on Blu Ray should give the Hollywood folks something to think about going forward....250,000 copies sold the first day alone.
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#3111 OFFLINE   smiddy

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 04:48 AM

Has anyone seen the new BluRay player that downloads Netflix? That's an interesting thing, eh?
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#3112 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 07:09 AM

Saw four different Blu Ray units on sale this weekend at Best Buy....one for $224, the others all under $300. Clearly, the prices continue to drop, and will do so through the holidays as many have forecast.

What's equally good news is that the disks themselves are also starting to be reduced a bit. Once the average new release Blu ray gets to $19.99 or so....they'll be selling as hot as standard DVDs.

Seeing the success of Iron Man on Blu Ray should give the Hollywood folks something to think about going forward....250,000 copies sold the first day alone.


Well, I've gone Blu myself now, so I have to hope I have more success with the format than I did with HD-DVD. I've already replaced all the titles I cared about on HD-DVD and now I'm just looking for great deals like the rest of you.

Hopefully we'll see under-$200 deals on players by the holiday season as well.
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#3113 OFFLINE   bobukcat

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 07:31 AM

Never was...never will be. Its a game machine that happens to play Blu Ray disks.

Granted, Sony had some good foresight to do include a BD disk unit inside, but stats also show that over 70% of PS3 owners are disk renters, not buyers....so Sony won't be making many royalty $$$$ on disks from that device.

In fact, the biggest beneficiary are the Netflix and Blockbuster organizations.

...anf for the PS3 lovers out there...please note that when you place one next to a real player, especially a newer Profile 2.0 unit, the imagery and audio are inferior to the real player. I've now seen 3 of those comparisons in person, and PS3 comes in 2nd every time. I would not have expected more. Again....its a game machine....a very good game machine....but a game machine nonetheless (and a bit too noisy too :D ),


Care to share a source or sources for those statements?? I ask because everyone I know that owns a PS3 (about 15 or 20 people now) rents AND buys disks for them and just about every one of these people also bought it as a BD player, not for gaming (although most do play games at least occasionally). However, even if the majority are just renters it's still the most popular (in terms of market share) BD player by a long shot so the demand for rentals drives sales of the disks to Blockbuster, Netflix, etc. It would be interesting to know the percentage of the 250K+ copies of Iron Man that are in homes with a PS3 as the player - obviously it has to be the vast majority of them.

I have only seen one place where I could compare a stand alone BD player (Sony, not sure what the model was) to a PS3 on the same display and that was in a Best Buy store. They were connnected to a 42" LCD and I couldn't tell a bit of difference in PQ between them, at least in that setting. The one thing I could tell is that the stand alone player took considerably longer to load the disk. (300 was the movie in question)

#3114 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 09:59 AM

Has anyone seen the new BluRay player that downloads Netflix? That's an interesting thing, eh?

Interesting indeed.

Well, I've gone Blu myself now, so I have to hope I have more success with the format than I did with HD-DVD. I've already replaced all the titles I cared about on HD-DVD and now I'm just looking for great deals like the rest of you.

You and I are in the same boat. I still feel HD DVD was better, but have migrated several months ago to the Blu Ray side....or should I say....I also have Blu Ray. Both Players continue to be featured in my Home Theater equipment rack.

Now that Blu Ray (finally) has caught up to where we were last year with HD DVD - via Profile 2.0 - its virtually a draw on the formats.

It is nice to see the Blu Ray disks themselves starting to come down in price, although they are still about $5 on average too high to gain widespread market acceptance to the point that BD gets 15% or more of market share (seen by the industry as a key threshhold milestone). It came close last week at 13% with the release of Iron Man on BD.

Care to share a source or sources for those statements?? I ask because everyone I know that owns a PS3 (about 15 or 20 people now) rents AND buys disks for them and just about every one of these people also bought it as a BD player, not for gaming (although most do play games at least occasionally). However, even if the majority are just renters it's still the most popular (in terms of market share) BD player by a long shot so the demand for rentals drives sales of the disks to Blockbuster, Netflix, etc.

Its been published at least 20 places this year...I visit no less than 15 sites per day on this topic, and its all over the place....several studies done since March 2008 alone (3).

There's nothing whatsoever wrong with the fact that PS3 is a hit with the Blu Ray disk rental crowd...I'm sure Blockbuster and Netflix are very happy about it....but the point is that it is a distinct and different market of dedicated player owners, who buy their in much greater numbers than PS3 owners. That's a stat that the Hollywood folks follow, as it drives their revenue more predictively.

As for the pricing....I shop at Amazon, Best Buy (using price matching), Fry's, and even Waltmart to simply get the best prices on BD. It varies as to where that is, depending on the specific title.
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#3115 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:19 PM

All I can say is my PS3 has never, ever played a game. And I own over 35 BDs right now. :) (And never rented a BD either.) :)

That said, I also own 2 Magnavox profile 1.0 players, purchased when Walmart was giving $100 gift cards for buying them. :)

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#3116 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:36 PM

All I can say is my PS3 has never, ever played a game. And I own over 35 BDs right now. :) (And never rented a BD either.) :)

Tom...we can arrange a private training session if you'd like.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

That said, I also own 2 Magnavox profile 1.0 players, purchased when Walmart was giving $100 gift cards for buying them. :)

Cheers,
Tom

Good move at those prices. Enjoy! :)
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#3117 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:56 PM

All I can say is my PS3 has never, ever played a game.

Tom, you should at least download a free demo or two from the Sony Store just to see what they look like. They've come a long way since the Atari 2600;)

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#3118 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 02:09 PM

Tom, you should at least download a free demo or two from the Sony Store just to see what they look like. They've come a long way since the Atari 2600;)

Its gettin ugly out there.... :lol:

...and just for the record....its Pong v1.0 on the TI 99/4a...
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#3119 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 02:19 PM

Its gettin ugly out there.... :lol:

...and just for the record....its Pong v1.0 on the TI 99/4a...


I think the Magnavox Odyseey that I had before the 2600 (where you put plastic overlays on your TV) was even before the TI (by almost 10 years). http://www.pong-story.com/odyssey.htm

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#3120 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 02:41 PM

I think the Magnavox Odyseey that I had before the 2600 (where you put plastic overlays on your TV) was even before the TI (by almost 10 years). http://www.pong-story.com/odyssey.htm

I'm sure Tom will be able to clear all this up.... :D :lol:
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#3121 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 02:56 PM

Let's get back to topic, please.
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#3122 OFFLINE   Brandon428

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 04:16 PM

I have a PS3 and currently have 5 games and 27 BD movies. I have rented a BD movie maybe 3 times. I use my PS3 more as a BD player than a video game player.

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 04:32 PM

PS3 system software update 2.50 is now available :)

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