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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Disapointing SD scaler


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25 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   rs2762

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Posted 23 April 2007 - 06:52 PM

Hi all,

I just got a VIP 622 (and new Dish service) over the weekend and I like the HD quality for many of the channels. However, I'm less impressed with the VIP 622's internal scaler. I paid a bunch of money for an HDTV with good SD scaling, but the VIP 622 insists on doing the scaling itself. Badly. Is there any way around that? I would like for it to send 480i or 480p video when an SD source is playing, and 1080i when HD is playing.

I've searched the forum for an answer to this problem but couldn't find one.

Setup:
- VIP 622 connected to Sony 52" XBR2 HDTV via 35' HDMI cable from monoprice.

Thanks in advance!
-Ray

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#2 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 23 April 2007 - 07:39 PM

:welcome_s rs2762. What your are looking for is what is usually called native pass through and it is a feature the 622 currently does not support. Dish did mention adding it to the 622 during a tech chat a while back, but there has not been anything other than the mention in terms of it being demoed anywhere.

Some users have passed svideo into there TVs and have achieve better scaling but there is no way to achieve what you are saying automatically through component or HDMI. Well you could do this through macros on a universal remote that it would be cumbersome and by no means automatic which I think one would want.
<strong class='bbc'>New Member of the 9K club & 922/612 User<br /></strong><span style='font-size: 8px;'>"A release is not a release until it is released." - Me. <br />"To the true believer, no proof is necessary. To the non believer, no proof is sufficient." - Peter James (Derived from a Stewert Chase Quote)</span>

#3 OFFLINE   Hall

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Posted 23 April 2007 - 07:42 PM

Run an S-Video cable (and audio) from the 622 to your TV's inputs. When you're watching a 480i/p program, switch to the S-Video input on your TV. Convenient ?? Not really.... Worth the difference in PQ ?? Maybe....

#4 OFFLINE   rs2762

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Posted 23 April 2007 - 08:29 PM

Run an S-Video cable (and audio) from the 622 to your TV's inputs. When you're watching a 480i/p program, switch to the S-Video input on your TV. Convenient ?? Not really.... Worth the difference in PQ ?? Maybe....


Thanks for the suggestion. It may be hard for me to do that since I've already run all my cables through the floor and walls from my equipment closet to the TV. I'll try if I can borrow a cable from Radio Shack or something. (borrow = buy/try/return) If it works, I'll have to pull some more cable through the wall. Yuck.

Why can't technology be perfect? The VIP 622 comes so close... *sigh*

Thanks again,
Ray

#5 OFFLINE   thefunks67

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Posted 23 April 2007 - 09:14 PM

Why can't technology be perfect? The VIP 622 comes so close... *sigh*

Thanks again,
Ray


IMHO the only perfect technology is a toaster and it's over a hundred years old.

-Funk

#6 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 23 April 2007 - 09:40 PM

IMHO the only perfect technology is a toaster and it's over a hundred years old.

-Funk


Hard to keep clean of crumbs, and sometimes it sticks and doesn't pop up the toast. So not 100% technology there either ;)

-- Respect the S.H.I.E.L.D.


#7 OFFLINE   thefunks67

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Posted 23 April 2007 - 10:03 PM

Crumbs do not affect the performance of the toaster. My B&D toaster pops the toast everytime, and it is 3 years old. :)

I have a 65" HDTV and there are certain channels where the SD is C-, but for the most part I would give the SD picture coming from E* a B+. I am using a 6' component cable from the 622 to my TV.

-Funk

#8 OFFLINE   lujan

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Posted 24 April 2007 - 06:01 AM

Crumbs do not affect the performance of the toaster. My B&D toaster pops the toast everytime, and it is 3 years old. :)

I have a 65" HDTV and there are certain channels where the SD is C-, but for the most part I would give the SD picture coming from E* a B+. I am using a 6' component cable from the 622 to my TV.

-Funk


I can't get my toaster to give me the right doneness. Either it's too dark or too light. I can't get it to toast just right, so even the toaster has it's technological problems.
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#9 OFFLINE   marius

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Posted 24 April 2007 - 09:03 AM

I got a pioneer plasma with a very good internal scaler, and the PQ difference between 622/hdmi and plasma/svideo is night and day (svideo is way better) on SD content.

#10 OFFLINE   johnsbin

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Posted 24 April 2007 - 09:09 AM

I can't get my toaster to give me the right doneness. Either it's too dark or too light. I can't get it to toast just right, so even the toaster has it's technological problems.


That's because you are not using a good toaster.

Check this one:

http://www.amazon.co...7427308&sr=8-20

Perfect toast, every time!
ViP622, Optoma HD70, 90" screen

#11 OFFLINE   lujan

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Posted 24 April 2007 - 10:40 AM

That's because you are not using a good toaster.

Check this one:

http://www.amazon.co...7427308&sr=8-20

Perfect toast, every time!


I added it to my wishlist. Thanks. Now we can start talking about the 622.:lol:
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#12 OFFLINE   tomcrown1

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Posted 24 April 2007 - 10:47 AM

That's because you are not using a good toaster.

Check this one:

http://www.amazon.co...7427308&sr=8-20

Perfect toast, every time!


The toaster cost to much and will increase the price for our viewers so at this time we will not offer the toaster untill we can get a better prize(maybe the prize will be a a vip622??):hurah:
Welcome to Dish the new AT&T

:) life is to to to short so be???

#13 OFFLINE   Grandude

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Posted 24 April 2007 - 11:39 AM

I can't get my toaster to give me the right doneness. Either it's too dark or too light. I can't get it to toast just right, so even the toaster has it's technological problems.

Have you tried toasting on top of your 622?:D

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#14 OFFLINE   liferules

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Posted 24 April 2007 - 02:37 PM

Maybe you guys haven't received the 4.03 toaster upgrade. It made my toaster work perfect every time! It even burns "HF" into my high fiber bread so I know its high fiber... Be sure to leave your toasters plugged in tonight to receive the upgrade! :)

#15 OFFLINE   thefunks67

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Posted 24 April 2007 - 08:52 PM

I am sorry I ever mentioned a toaster and got this thread hijacked. :grin: I was just trying to add some levity to the question that was asked as the question seems to be asked a lot.

Perhaps a USB port could be used to off load the crumbs directly to a HDD enclosure making for easy clean up?

-Funk

#16 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:51 AM

Yeah guys... wonder off here a bit for sure.. Was hoping it would wonder back on... So lets get back on topic.... If you want to continue to discuss high tech toasters, please take it to the OT forums where the topic could be more fully discussed. ;)
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#17 OFFLINE   podder320

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 06:51 PM

...the VIP 622 insists on doing [SD-to-HD] scaling itself. Badly.


Check out a thread I started here: http://www.dbstalk.c...ead.php?t=81461

Go to the mid-to-end of the thread for a SOLUTION that has worked for me: the SWAP button.

The ViP622 has two internal MPEG decoder paths to support two TVs (in Multi mode) or Picture-in-Picture (in Single mode). On my unit, one of the decoders has an SD-to-HD scaling bug which the other does not. I know it sounds unlikely that they would act differently, but that's the behavior I see.

If you use your TV in "Single mode," you can use the SWAP button (without Picture-in-Picture active) to flip between the two decoders. So try this: tune the 622 to an SD channel, then hit SWAP and tune the other decoder to the same channel. If you flip back and forth, does one look better than the other? If so, you're seeing the same thing I am and now you know the same solution: when you see bad SD, use SWAP to switch to the other decoder.

The problem I'm talking about shows up most clearly in static (non-moving) text and other areas with smooth, sharp-edged curves, but once you notice it you can see it everywhere. There are screen shots in that other thread demonstrating the problem. Hope this helps.

#18 OFFLINE   rs2762

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 01:22 AM

If you use your TV in "Single mode," you can use the SWAP button (without Picture-in-Picture active) to flip between the two decoders. So try this: tune the 622 to an SD channel, then hit SWAP and tune the other decoder to the same channel. If you flip back and forth, does one look better than the other? If so, you're seeing the same thing I am and now you know the same solution: when you see bad SD, use SWAP to switch to the other decoder.


Wow - amazing! I could see the difference immediately. Thanks for the tip!

-Ray

#19 OFFLINE   Slordak

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 08:11 AM

Gah I can't believe they don't fix that field-ordering bug. Assuming it's a software problem, it's gotta be just one or two lines of code that are wrong. It would be a heck of a lot easier than adding native resolution passthrough, even though most of us still desire it...

#20 OFFLINE   Hall

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Posted 29 April 2007 - 03:54 PM

Since I run in dual-mode, I can't do the "swap" trick, so I'm considering running an S-Video cable, in addition to the component cables, to my TV, using one of the add'l inputs. Problem is, how do I get sound ?? My receiver is connected to my AV receiver via optical, but we only use the AV receiver for movies or some HD programs.




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