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Any HR20-100 Caller ID Issues?


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41 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 24 April 2007 - 09:26 AM

Wondering if any HR20-100 users are having the same CID problems some of the HR20-700 users are having. For many of us, it works for awhile after a reboot, and then stops until the next reboot. One theory is that the HR20-700's H/W design doesn't deal well with improper grounding issues. If so, I'm wondering if the HR20-100 might be less susceptible to grounding problems. TIA. /steve

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#2 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 11:32 AM

Guess the HR20-100 are not having any CID issues. Interesting. /s

#3 OFFLINE   Doug Brott

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 11:45 AM

Guess the HR20-100 are not having any CID issues. Interesting. /s


I'm not sure how many HR20-100 systems are in the wild yet. This is a good question, though.
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#4 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 11:55 AM

I'm not sure how many HR20-100 systems are in the wild yet. This is a good question, though.

Ya. I found a statistical sample calculator on the web, and if I'm using it correctly, it looks like we'd need feedback from the owners of about 268 HR20-100's to get a 90% accurate picture. I'm not a statistician, though, so I could be entirely wrong about this #. /s

#5 OFFLINE   jpelam

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 12:17 PM

I have the HR-20-100....No issues to report on the Caller ID.

#6 OFFLINE   hilmar2k

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 12:18 PM

Ya. I found a statistical sample calculator on the web, and if I'm using it correctly, it looks like we'd need feedback from the owners of about 268 HR20-100's to get a 90% accurate picture. I'm not a statistician, though, so I could be entirely wrong about this #. /s


I think you're going to be hard pressed to find 268 HR20-100 owners in this forum.

#7 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 12:22 PM

I think you're going to be hard pressed to find 268 HR20-100 owners in this forum.

I'm hopeful some own more than one, and there may be a chance of finding owners of 268 units in total.

No matter how many, it's still interesting not even one hr20-100 owner has reported a CID problem so far, either here or in the 146 issues thread. /s

#8 OFFLINE   krock918316

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 12:24 PM

I've had the HR20-100 for about a week, caller ID works great. Wish I could say the same about the R15 that just moved to the bedroom........

#9 OFFLINE   Smuuth

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 03:11 PM

I have 2 HR20-100s. Caller ID (including Call Waiting Caller ID) works fine on both of them. In fact, it's the only reason I left the phone lines hooked up after the installer left.

#10 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 11:51 AM

No reports here or in the 146 "issues" thread re: HR20-100 CID problems. There could be two reasons for this:

1) The HR20-100's modem circuitry is different than the HR20-700's, and is not sensitive to the grounding issues many believe exist with the HR20-700.

OR

2) The 146 software contains a CID fix not present in either the 145 or 14f s/w for the HR20-700.

Let's hope it's the latter! /s

#11 OFFLINE   stroh

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 02:13 PM

Caller ID worked for me with the previous software release as well as 146. Has been working since first plugged in even before the initial setup.

I plugged the receiver in while the tech was installing the dish. After finishing outside he came inside and completed the initial setup and when he hit menu there was a CID entry that happened while we were outside. I was pretty amazed.

#12 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 02:20 PM

Caller ID worked for me with the previous software release as well as 146. Has been working since first plugged in even before the initial setup.

Glad it's not an issue on the HR20-100's, but not promising info for the HR20-700 owners who are still struggling with CID. I was hoping your 146 s/w had a CID fix that hadn't been delivered to the -700 owners yet. /s

#13 OFFLINE   Doug Brott

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 02:48 PM

No reports here or in the 146 "issues" thread re: HR20-100 CID problems. There could be two reasons for this:

1) The HR20-100's modem circuitry is different than the HR20-700's, and is not sensitive to the grounding issues many believe exist with the HR20-700.

OR

2) The 146 software contains a CID fix not present in either the 145 or 14f s/w for the HR20-700.

Let's hope it's the latter! /s


Ok, you know me and the whole grounding thing .. according to veryoldschool, the HR20-100 has a three-prong (i.e. grounded) plug instead of the two-prong plug that is used on the HR20-700. Perhaps the HR20-100 is happily grounded and that's the reason they all work correctly.
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#14 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 03:19 PM

Ok, you know me and the whole grounding thing .. according to veryoldschool, the HR20-100 has a three-prong (i.e. grounded) plug instead of the two-prong plug that is used on the HR20-700. Perhaps the HR20-100 is happily grounded and that's the reason they all work correctly.

Makes sense. That would indicate that maybe only the HR20-700 needs to be grounded then to the wall outlet then? Perhaps I'll try that tomorrow. /s

#15 OFFLINE   Doug Brott

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 03:23 PM

Makes sense. That would indicate that maybe only the HR20-700 needs to be grounded then to the wall outlet then? Perhaps I'll try that tomorrow. /s


Hmmm ... make sure you are careful in how you make the connection ... electricity can be a dangerous thing. It's not quite as simple as changing it to a 3-prong plug .. I assume you mean putting grounding blocks on the coax, but doing so inside the house might not be a good idea.
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#16 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 04:11 PM

Hmmm ... make sure you are careful in how you make the connection ... electricity can be a dangerous thing. It's not quite as simple as changing it to a 3-prong plug .. I assume you mean putting grounding blocks on the coax, but doing so inside the house might not be a good idea.

Knowing nothing about electricity, I was thinking about a single wire from one of the HR20 chassis screws to the ground screw on the outlet receptacle. Not a good idea?

I have everything plugged into a Monster power conditioner, which is connected via a three-prong plug. Maybe that's the way to go? See if there's a ground connection there? What I haven't done is plug the phone line into the power conditioner and back out. I can do that. Should I try that first? /s

#17 OFFLINE   Smuuth

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 04:32 PM

Knowing nothing about electricity, I was thinking about a single wire from one of the HR20 chassis screws to the ground screw on the outlet receptacle. Not a good idea?

I have everything plugged into a Monster power conditioner, which is connected via a three-prong plug. Maybe that's the way to go? See if there's a ground connection there? What I haven't done is plug the phone line into the power conditioner and back out. I can do that. Should I try that first? /s

One thing to be careful of with grounding wires is that ALL grounds are to the same point electrically-speaking to avoid the possibility of potential (read voltage) between ground points. What that means in simple terms is that if your house wiring is grounded to true earth ground at the incoming service box (as most are if wired according to code), the grounding block for the satellite coax into your HR20 should also be grounded to a true earth ground, and so should the grounding block for the coax from the OTA. There can even be a problem with potential difference between grounds if the grounding rods are too widely separated.

#18 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 04:38 PM

I much more convinced its related to local electrical issues than anything to do with the HR20's, either 100 or 700 models. Mine has worked perfect since day 1(Oct. '06), but I know what condition my phone wiring is in, I don't have 20 stinkin devices on my line, I dont use VoIP, and I my D* system is completely and properly grounded. Which based on so many other posts, can't be said for a pretty good percentage of others that put the blame solely on the HR20, because "All my other devices work fine"

Which pretty much smacks of poor logic and lack of common sense. The cause and effect of this has many more variables that apparently are beyond the grasp of the masses.

#19 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 05:41 PM

Which pretty much smacks of poor logic and lack of common sense. The cause and effect of this has many more variables that apparently are beyond the grasp of the masses.

You may be right, but elsewhere in my home, CID recognition works fine on 6 handsets, one fax machine and 3 internal computer modems. Not to mention the fact that I'd bet dollars to donuts that 90% of dish installs out there are not earth-grounded. And it does work on the HR20 after each reboot. It just dies after 12-24 hours.

Implementing CID properly on the HR20 shouldn't be rocket science for the designers, and certainly not for the customers. Just my .02. /s

#20 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 10:28 PM

There is a potential reason right there, you have at least 11 devices pulling down ringer equvalencies right there. 6+1+3+Hr20. Normal house phone service is not meant for that kind of load, IIRC its more like 6 devices, 5 according to wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia....ivalency_number

Was the HR20 the last device you added to your phone wiring circuitry? Temporarily disconnect a phone or two and a modem or two and see if the reliability of the HR20 CID goes up. I have 4 devices, 2 phones, 1 modem, and the HR20, and my Hr20 has worked flawlessly for CID since day 1(Oct 06).


On another note, I've had installs at 4 different places in the last 11 years with D*, and all have been grounded properly. I really find it hard to believe that 90% arent grounded, but thats neither her nor there.

#21 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 11:18 PM

Makes sense. That would indicate that maybe only the HR20-700 needs to be grounded then to the wall outlet then? Perhaps I'll try that tomorrow. /s

Most of the grounds [from power cords] go straight to the chassis inside the equipment. FWIW
If I had CID [to test any of this] I would connect to the chassis [case].
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#22 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 28 April 2007 - 05:47 AM

There is a potential reason right there, you have at least 11 devices pulling down ringer equvalencies right there. 6+1+3+Hr20. Normal house phone service is not meant for that kind of load, IIRC its more like 6 devices, 5 according to wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia....ivalency_number

Was the HR20 the last device you added to your phone wiring circuitry? Temporarily disconnect a phone or two and a modem or two and see if the reliability of the HR20 CID goes up. I have 4 devices, 2 phones, 1 modem, and the HR20, and my Hr20 has worked flawlessly for CID since day 1(Oct 06).


On another note, I've had installs at 4 different places in the last 11 years with D*, and all have been grounded properly. I really find it hard to believe that 90% arent grounded, but thats neither her nor there.

The three computer modems are only connected when I need them. The 6 phones are part of expandable systems and only use two jacks, so really only 4 devices connected most of the time. As I mentioned before, after a soft reboot, the HR20's CID works fine for 12-24 hours, so not a ringer equivalence issue.

(Off topic: Wikipedia may be correct in this case, but should not be referenced as a trusted source of information. It is not professionally edited and anyone can post just about anything they've heard. If someone who knows better doesn't correct them, incorrect facts stand as gospel.)

Regarding grounding, I've had or overseen 6 different installs by 6 different installers. None of the dishes were grounded AFAIK. I've started a poll to see if I'm the exception or the rule. /steve

#23 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 28 April 2007 - 06:09 AM

Most of the grounds [from power cords] go straight to the chassis inside the equipment. FWIW
If I had CID [to test any of this] I would connect to the chassis [case].

In the spirit of the topic, I took the path of least resistance. :lol: I routed the phone line through my Monster conditioner/outlet strip's phone in/out jacks before splitting that line to an expandable phone base and the HR20. Without a soft reboot, CID immediately started working again.

Wish I had tried just unplugging and replugging the phone line into the HR20 first, but it hadn't occurred to me. If CID fails again with this set-up, I will try that, followed by the chassis ground. /s

#24 OFFLINE   StachStach

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Posted 28 April 2007 - 07:05 AM

Caller ID and Call Waiting ID are both working GREAT on my HR20-100B

#25 OFFLINE   Doug Brott

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Posted 28 April 2007 - 08:08 AM

In the spirit of the topic, I took the path of least resistance. :lol: I routed the phone line through my Monster conditioner/outlet strip's phone in/out jacks before splitting that line to an expandable phone base and the HR20. Without a soft reboot, CID immediately started working again.

Wish I had tried just unplugging and replugging the phone line into the HR20 first, but it hadn't occurred to me. If CID fails again with this set-up, I will try that, followed by the chassis ground. /s


If this continues to work for you, then I now have a theory why this is the case and why my situation works as well.

I have found out that my phone service ground is tied to a secondary grounding not attached to my house electrical ground service. The area around my Television is non-grounded electrical service, so I cannot even tap off of that service in the manner in which you are describing. However, the Coax for me serves as the grounding service for the HR20 now that I have connected the grounding blocks outside my home.

Steve, is your phone service ground attached to your house electrical ground or is it tied to it's own private grounding rod? I'm wondering if your change has caused the two grounds to become equalized because the phone wire is now acting as the copper that ties them together (since you tie to electrical ground through the UPS). The 22-gauge phone wire is not thick enough to provide any kind of safety protection, but it could be enough to make the potential "correct."

So Steve, are you a believer in grounding?
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