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New install - 2nd tuner doesn't work - 5x8 mulitswitch


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42 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   walker

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 03:45 AM

Do you think they'll drop ship one to me, or will it be necessary for a tech to come out?


i had this same exact issue with my 1st hr20. i was fortunate enough to get help from earl and others here on the forum that helped me troubleshoot the issue enough to be 99.9% sure i had a bad 2nd tuner. i called d*, (i always call late at night b/c there is no wait and the cust serv reps seem to be much easier to talk to), explained to tech supp my issue, the steps i had already gone through, and was told that was exactly what he would tell me to do and wasn't going to put me through any other diagnostics. he told me that he would be dropshipping a new receiver the next day and i would not have to set up a service call. i assumed i would get the receiver in a week or so, but i got it the very next day!! i really couldn't believe it. it was also brand new, not refurbished, and came with more cables than my original receiver. i've been basically problem free since that time. :)

good luck

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#22 OFFLINE   skaeight

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 04:34 AM

Its actually the 5th & 6th inputs since the 6X8 zinwell does not combine your OTA antenna signal. The 5th and sixth inputs are for the 2 new satellites that will come on line this year and will require 2 more lnbs added to your dish. The 2 lines from them will connect to the Aux 1 and 2 inputs on the multiswitch.

Your 5X8 will not be able to accomplish this so you will need a new multiswitch to get the future HD channels.

On your other questions, since you won't be using the lower frequency sats for a while you may combine the OTA signal with your current multiswitch and diplex it out before the hr20 if you want. Once the new birds are operational you will have to ensure you have a seperate line run for your OTA or hope they have implemented the SWMs by then.


So maybe the answer is, don't worry about this until the new sats are operational, and at that point get one of the SWMs. I don't really feel like running a new line for OTA. It doesn't sound like the 6x8 zinwell diplexs at all, correct?

Now that I think about it though, I understand why its 6x8, I forgot about the 72.5 /99 slots. It sounds like they standardized on one switch so no matter the location the installer can use the same switch.

I think I still am going to call and try to get a credit though, because they should have given it to me. If I can use it towards one of the SWMs I'll be good shape.

(BTW, what does SWM stand for, I know what they do, just don't know the name)

#23 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 06:55 AM

So maybe the answer is, don't worry about this until the new sats are operational, and at that point get one of the SWMs. I don't really feel like running a new line for OTA. It doesn't sound like the 6x8 zinwell diplexs at all, correct?

Now that I think about it though, I understand why its 6x8, I forgot about the 72.5 /99 slots. It sounds like they standardized on one switch so no matter the location the installer can use the same switch.

I think I still am going to call and try to get a credit though, because they should have given it to me. If I can use it towards one of the SWMs I'll be good shape.

(BTW, what does SWM stand for, I know what they do, just don't know the name)

Single wire module.
I don't know if you'll get credit for something you either don't have, or for now don't need.
A.K.A VOS

#24 OFFLINE   chrisexv6

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 07:50 AM

Dont know what the status is on this, but I had basically the same issue. HR20 installed, tuner 1 would get perfect signal, tuner 2 was at around 30 points on every xponder (some were 0, even on sat 101). Swapped cables, didnt change anything.

They hadnt replaced the multiswitch because it wasnt on the work order (even though I specifically said to do so). They came back on another call to replace the multiswitch, and the issue disappeared.

I *think* it has something to do with how the HR20 handles the signal internally. It almost seems that it combines the 2 inputs to give you full signal on both tuners (different from the tivo we're used to, which just has full signal on each tuner). I was told the powered 5x8 multiswitch I had couldnt handle all of the bandwidth at once.......whatever that means, but I do know the 6x8 fixed the issue. But then you cant diplex OTA (unless you end up with the SWM setup). BUT! you can split the 4 wires off the dish, have 4 go to the 6x8 and 4 go to your old powered switch, then diplex into the powered switch to send OTA to any box *except* the HR20.......might work out if you dont have to have OTA at the HR20.

-Chris


AT-9 Slimline, Zinwell 6x8 connected to:

Upstairs Panasonic 32LX50 LCD|HR21-200 via HDMI [-networked -native off]|Panasonic RP56 DVD player via component

Living Room Mits 65819 RPTV|HR20-100 via component[-networked -native off -OTA|Panasonic XP30 via component

Basement Olevia 537H LCD|HR20-700 via HDMI [-networked -native off]|Zenith DVB612 via HDMI|Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switch

#25 OFFLINE   skaeight

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 07:57 AM

Dont know what the status is on this, but I had basically the same issue. HR20 installed, tuner 1 would get perfect signal, tuner 2 was at around 30 points on every xponder (some were 0, even on sat 101). Swapped cables, didnt change anything.

They hadnt replaced the multiswitch because it wasnt on the work order (even though I specifically said to do so). They came back on another call to replace the multiswitch, and the issue disappeared.

I *think* it has something to do with how the HR20 handles the signal internally. It almost seems that it combines the 2 inputs to give you full signal on both tuners (different from the tivo we're used to, which just has full signal on each tuner). I was told the powered 5x8 multiswitch I had couldnt handle all of the bandwidth at once.......whatever that means, but I do know the 6x8 fixed the issue. But then you cant diplex OTA (unless you end up with the SWM setup). BUT! you can split the 4 wires off the dish, have 4 go to the 6x8 and 4 go to your old powered switch, then diplex into the powered switch to send OTA to any box *except* the HR20.......might work out if you dont have to have OTA at the HR20.

-Chris


Do you happen to remember if your 5x8 multiswitch actually passed the required ka frequencies? The reason I ask is because mine passes 54-2150 KHz which is why he didn't change it (and I am receiving MPEG-4 channels).

The other thing is that I don't receive any signal whatsoever on my 2nd tuner.

Hopefully my replacement receiver arrives today so I can find out where the problem is. I just really hope I don't need another service call to fix this.

Thanks for the input though.

#26 OFFLINE   chrisexv6

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 08:08 AM

The 5x8 is a Dynex el-cheapo model. Ill try to find the specs online.

And yes, at times I got zero signal on Tuner 2. It really was bouncing around, and I have a feeling it was dependent on whatever Tuner 1 was tuned to. I also noticed that if I recorded 2 things at once, one of the recordings acted just like no signal/really low signal. Pixelization, cutouts, "no signal" messages, etc.

I too was worried about needing another HR20, but luckily the new switch fixed the issue. DirecTV was very good about having someone come out (in fact they were out the day after I got the HR20 installed), so I wouldnt be worried if you needed to call them.......just explain to them that the HR20 *needs* the new multiswitch before you can determine if the box is really bad or not.

Well that was easy, here are the specs for the Dynex:

http://www.sadoun.co...witch-bms34.htm

NOTE that it does have the required freq range, but I can vouch that it did not work. Im not so sure the freq range was the problem, I have a feeling it was something internal that wasnt able to handle multiple tuners hooked up to the same freq range. Definitely have them come out and put the 6x8 in, before you send any of the HR20s back. Your original is probably perfectly fine (if you still have it).

-Chris


AT-9 Slimline, Zinwell 6x8 connected to:

Upstairs Panasonic 32LX50 LCD|HR21-200 via HDMI [-networked -native off]|Panasonic RP56 DVD player via component

Living Room Mits 65819 RPTV|HR20-100 via component[-networked -native off -OTA|Panasonic XP30 via component

Basement Olevia 537H LCD|HR20-700 via HDMI [-networked -native off]|Zenith DVB612 via HDMI|Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switch

#27 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 08:10 AM

Do you happen to remember if your 5x8 multiswitch actually passed the required ka frequencies? The reason I ask is because mine passes 54-2150 KHz which is why he didn't change it (and I am receiving MPEG-4 channels).

The other thing is that I don't receive any signal whatsoever on my 2nd tuner.

Hopefully my replacement receiver arrives today so I can find out where the problem is. I just really hope I don't need another service call to fix this.

Thanks for the input though.


The problem is that while the 5x8 may "pass" the 54-950mhz frequencies, it is not switching them. It is amplifying the OTA input and distributing them to all outputs. So when the new satellites launch, start using those frequencies for HD, you'll be out of luck with that switch.

As for the second tuner, make sure the system: dish, multiswitch, and coax (where it enters the house) are all properly grounded. Then if nothing brings tuner 2 back to life: swapping cables, swapping BBCs, removing BBCs (purely as a test),etc. then have DIRECTV replace the HR20. The 5x8 won't have an inherent effect on the tuner 2--but a bad output could. So swapping ports on the 5x8 with known good ports is a good diagnostic.

Good luck,
Tom

Go Packers!

My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#28 OFFLINE   skaeight

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 08:11 AM

I kind of think we have different issues. My 2nd tuner is not enabled at all. When I'm recording one program and go to record a second it tells me that all tuners are in use and I have to cancel something to continue.

#29 OFFLINE   chrisexv6

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 08:14 AM

I thought I read/heard somewhere that if you dont have a valid connection on the 2nd tuner during bootup, the 2nd tuner is automatically disabled.

Its too bad you cant just hook directly up to one of the dish outputs anymore to verify. That used to make troubleshooting a lot easier.

-Chris


AT-9 Slimline, Zinwell 6x8 connected to:

Upstairs Panasonic 32LX50 LCD|HR21-200 via HDMI [-networked -native off]|Panasonic RP56 DVD player via component

Living Room Mits 65819 RPTV|HR20-100 via component[-networked -native off -OTA|Panasonic XP30 via component

Basement Olevia 537H LCD|HR20-700 via HDMI [-networked -native off]|Zenith DVB612 via HDMI|Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switch

#30 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 08:15 AM

Sorry, the 2nd tuner is missing issue can only be restored by an RBR with a working satellite cable attached. If that doesn't work try unplug the unit for a few minutes. If that doesn't work, are you sure the cable/MS port is good? :)

Cheers,
Tom

Go Packers!

My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#31 OFFLINE   skaeight

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 08:18 AM

Sorry, the 2nd tuner is missing issue can only be restored by an RBR with a working satellite cable attached. If that doesn't work try unplug the unit for a few minutes. If that doesn't work, are you sure the cable/MS port is good? :)

Cheers,
Tom


Yeah, I had a directivo in place before the HR20 and both tuners worked fine, and it's the same multiswitch (unfortunately) and same wiring. All that is different is the dish and the receiver.

#32 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 08:21 AM

And the RBR and unplug power haven't worked? If so, I go back to ensure the system is correctly grounded and replace the HR20.

Cheers,
Tom

Go Packers!

My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#33 OFFLINE   skaeight

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 08:25 AM

And the RBR and unplug power haven't worked? If so, I go back to ensure the system is correctly grounded and replace the HR20.

Cheers,
Tom


Yep, last night I unplugged the receiver, and also the BBCs and still nothing. The system should be grounded as my previous dish was and i requested the new one be and the installer did not seem to object.

My replacement HR20 should actually be here today, so I guess that should give me a definitive answer on all of this.

#34 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 08:38 AM

Yep, last night I unplugged the receiver, and also the BBCs and still nothing. The system should be grounded as my previous dish was and i requested the new one be and the installer did not seem to object.

My replacement HR20 should actually be here today, so I guess that should give me a definitive answer on all of this.


I'd double check if you can. I had an installer unhook the ground, replace the dish and mount, and almost left the grounding wire just hanging. I know they were trained to ground--I know the supervisor. So I kindly told him to reattach the ground wire.

Cheers,
Tom

Go Packers!

My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#35 OFFLINE   skaeight

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 08:40 AM

I'll do my best on that. Hopefully I can see it from the ground somehow. This is all so frustrating, especially since I tipped the guy.

#36 OFFLINE   chrisexv6

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 08:44 AM

Not meaning to disagree with Tibber, but Im pretty confident the issue lies in the multiswitch.

Ive learned from everyone around here after I wasnt confident my problem was the switch, but alas they replaced it and voila good signal on both tuners. You might have to reboot once the switch is replaced, that would (hopefully) enable the 2nd tuner. Ive heard rumors you can buy the switch yourself and D* will reimburse you, if you didnt want to wait for a service call.

-Chris


AT-9 Slimline, Zinwell 6x8 connected to:

Upstairs Panasonic 32LX50 LCD|HR21-200 via HDMI [-networked -native off]|Panasonic RP56 DVD player via component

Living Room Mits 65819 RPTV|HR20-100 via component[-networked -native off -OTA|Panasonic XP30 via component

Basement Olevia 537H LCD|HR20-700 via HDMI [-networked -native off]|Zenith DVB612 via HDMI|Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switch

#37 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 09:16 AM

Not meaning to disagree with Tibber, but Im pretty confident the issue lies in the multiswitch.

Ive learned from everyone around here after I wasnt confident my problem was the switch, but alas they replaced it and voila good signal on both tuners. You might have to reboot once the switch is replaced, that would (hopefully) enable the 2nd tuner. Ive heard rumors you can buy the switch yourself and D* will reimburse you, if you didnt want to wait for a service call.

-Chris


Fear not, I don't feel we disagree at all--I'm starting with the "if the switch ports are certain to be good". :)

And we know that switch will need to be replaced anyway for the HD nationals.

What I don't want to happen is a replacement HR20 to burn out its tuner #2 if the system is not grounded correctly... Floating grounds can be nasty.

One last thing, SWM is Single Wire Multiswitch. (tho it is a module too.) :)

Cheers,
Tom

Go Packers!

My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#38 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 09:19 AM

One last thing, SWM is Single Wire Multiswitch. (tho it is a module too.) :)
Cheers,
Tom

oops, :blush:
A.K.A VOS

#39 OFFLINE   skaeight

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 06:19 PM

Well, I think I have all my bases covered. Just to be absolutely sure, I unplugged the receiver and swapped the cables again. Still nothing and the problem stayed with tuner 1. It has to be the receiver.

I also just called d* and requested a 6x8 switch. Even if it's working, I still want to have the proper equipment to be sure thing will work correctly. Unfortunately the only way to do this is for them to send a tech out, which will happen Sat. This isn't all bad though I guess. If for some reason the replacement unit they are sending out doesn't fix the tuner problem, they can fix it Saturday.

Also, I went out and looked at my dish, I'm about 95% sure it's grounded. I see two then wires kind of looped around the mast and I think I can see that one of the wires was screwed into one of the bolts. I'll probably just have the tech double check this while he's out here.

#40 OFFLINE   skaeight

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 05:45 AM

I got my replacement receiver last night and it fixed the problem. I can now record two things at once. The only problem is they sent me a refurbished HR20-700. I guess I can deal with it though because there's probably not much I can do.

So now once I get the correct 6x8 switch installed this weekend I'll be all set.




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