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Guest Message by DevFuse

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HD and the Trees


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35 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   katzeye

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 10:39 AM

Inspired by some of the previous posts, but not wanting to tread on their toes I also have a question about how the trees effect the HD Signal.
My Father, who currently has both a 1 LNB dish and Directway contacted D* trying to upgrade to the HD service. An installer came out to the house and said that it couldn't be done. That the trees in the forest off the backyard would interfere with the signal.
Now it is true that there is substantial tree cover sorunding the property, but it is not what I would call insurmountable. As well as the fact that he currently runs two other satellite systems, seems to say that something else is going on (lazy installer?).
I admit to complete ignorance to the working of the satellite systems, the talk about angle of degrees left me in the dark. But the systems have always been very rugged in my experience, I once had a house where my dish was pointed at a tree covered hillside and I still got a 90% signal.
So is the HD service that sensitive? And if so is there anything that can be done to overcome the problem besides complete deforestation? Is Dish Network any better or different? It is really his only option because he lives in a rural area with no cable service, and his 50" HDTV looks soooo sad with all that Standard Def content on it.

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#2 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 10:51 AM

Inspired by some of the previous posts, but not wanting to tread on their toes I also have a question about how the trees effect the HD Signal.
My Father, who currently has both a 1 LNB dish and Directway contacted D* trying to upgrade to the HD service. An installer came out to the house and said that it couldn't be done. That the trees in the forest off the backyard would interfere with the signal.
Now it is true that there is substantial tree cover sorunding the property, but it is not what I would call insurmountable. As well as the fact that he currently runs two other satellite systems, seems to say that something else is going on (lazy installer?).
I admit to complete ignorance to the working of the satellite systems, the talk about angle of degrees left me in the dark. But the systems have always been very rugged in my experience, I once had a house where my dish was pointed at a tree covered hillside and I still got a 90% signal.
So is the HD service that sensitive? And if so is there anything that can be done to overcome the problem besides complete deforestation? Is Dish Network any better or different? It is really his only option because he lives in a rural area with no cable service, and his 50" HDTV looks soooo sad with all that Standard Def content on it.

:welcome_s To the forum(s).
As someone with trees all around, I have had to become quite knowledgeable of trees & SAT lines of sight.
Most installer will pass on it and move to their next "easy" job.
The water in the trees [leaves] will kill the SAT signals.
Dish or DTV, it doesn't matter [I've had both].
While what you posted so far sound like two dishes that point [maybe] between the trees. I have to work very hard [on my fifth location] to get a line of sight to all five SATs for the new DTV [or D*] setup.
I actually go between trees as I couldn't find anyplace to go over the top of them.
On very difficult locations, multiple dishes are used to get the needed sight line through the same "gap" in the trees.
So if you can't get the spread from the dish to all of the SATs, then you spread the dish(s) to get the line of sight.
But, no it won't go "through" trees.
A.K.A VOS

#3 ONLINE   Radio Enginerd

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 11:08 AM

Inspired by some of the previous posts, but not wanting to tread on their toes I also have a question about how the trees effect the HD Signal.
My Father, who currently has both a 1 LNB dish and Directway contacted D* trying to upgrade to the HD service. An installer came out to the house and said that it couldn't be done. That the trees in the forest off the backyard would interfere with the signal.
Now it is true that there is substantial tree cover sorunding the property, but it is not what I would call insurmountable. As well as the fact that he currently runs two other satellite systems, seems to say that something else is going on (lazy installer?).
I admit to complete ignorance to the working of the satellite systems, the talk about angle of degrees left me in the dark. But the systems have always been very rugged in my experience, I once had a house where my dish was pointed at a tree covered hillside and I still got a 90% signal.
So is the HD service that sensitive? And if so is there anything that can be done to overcome the problem besides complete deforestation? Is Dish Network any better or different? It is really his only option because he lives in a rural area with no cable service, and his 50" HDTV looks soooo sad with all that Standard Def content on it.


Welcome to DBS Talk!

Do you have any pictures of the property? I'm curious to see how bad the tree cover is.

EDIT: I encountered another thread that may be helpful to you. Check this out - CLICK HERE

If you put your mind to it you can accomplish anything.
- Emmett "Doc" Brown

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#4 OFFLINE   katzeye

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 11:16 AM

:welcome_s To the forum(s).
As someone with trees all around, I have had to become quite knowledgeable of trees & SAT lines of sight.
Most installer will pass on it and move to their next "easy" job.
The water in the trees [leaves] will kill the SAT signals.
Dish or DTV, it doesn't matter [I've had both].
While what you posted so far sound like two dishes that point [maybe] between the trees. I have to work very hard [on my fifth location] to get a line of sight to all five SATs for the new DTV [or D*] setup.
I actually go between trees as I couldn't find anyplace to go over the top of them.
On very difficult locations, multiple dishes are used to get the needed sight line through the same "gap" in the trees.
So if you can't get the spread from the dish to all of the SATs, then you spread the dish(s) to get the line of sight.
But, no it won't go "through" trees.


Thanks for the welcome,
Ok so unfortunately this gives me a lot more questions.
I never considered that it was tree/leaf specific. His trees are all pine, so leaves are not a problem but water on pine needles may be even worse. but the needles themselves should not cause interference (am I correct in this?).
I would have to assume that because the other systems are working that there is a gap some where in there. So as are as insallation what is the best option.
Should we call and request another installer? Should we go through D* or a private installer.
Should we do it ourselves (I've installed several 1 LNB dishes myself but never a 5LNB).
How would multiple dishes work?
Oh I have too many questions.
thanks for the help.

#5 OFFLINE   katzeye

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 11:18 AM


Do you have any pictures of the property? I'm curious to see how bad the tree cover is.



I don't but check back tonight, and I will see If I can get my father to post a few after work.

#6 ONLINE   Radio Enginerd

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 11:21 AM


Do you have any pictures of the property? I'm curious to see how bad the tree cover is.



I don't but check back tonight, and I will see If I can get my father to post a few after work.


Excellent... We should be able to determine whether your father really has a problem or if you encountered a lazy installer (there are many unfortunately).

If your father could also give you some kind of a compass bearing (example: this picture is taken pointed south) that would be helpful. There are MANY creative nerds and geeks on this board that will do almost anything for SAT TV so rest assured you'll get many suggestions. :)

If you put your mind to it you can accomplish anything.
- Emmett "Doc" Brown

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#7 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 12:38 PM

There are MANY creative nerds and geeks on this board.

I resemble that.

And to katzeye, my trees are mostly pine too, so it really doesn't matter broad leaf or not.
A.K.A VOS

#8 OFFLINE   bobnielsen

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 01:15 PM

Be aware that the dish is actually pointing about 20 degrees above where it appears to be looking.

#9 OFFLINE   katzeye

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 08:43 PM

No photos tonight, He is going to try and get them tomorrow.
Thanks to all for the input so far.

#10 OFFLINE   CobraGuy

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 07:28 AM

Be aware that the dish is actually pointing about 20 degrees above where it appears to be looking.


Are you sure about that? I just tried to move my dish between mine and my neighbors houses. I would have sworn it was aimed just above his roof line. I even set a laser at 47 degrees (my elevation) and the laser didn't hit the roof. But I couldn't get a signal. Once I moved it so the neighbors roof was out of the picture, I received a great signal.

#11 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 08:14 AM

Are you sure about that? I just tried to move my dish between mine and my neighbors houses. I would have sworn it was aimed just above his roof line. I even set a laser at 47 degrees (my elevation) and the laser didn't hit the roof. But I couldn't get a signal. Once I moved it so the neighbors roof was out of the picture, I received a great signal.

What "I think" was meant was the LNB is below the center of the dish, so after the "bounce" off of the dish, it's looking about 20 degrees above where the dish "looks" to be pointing.
A.K.A VOS

#12 OFFLINE   katzeye

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 05:38 PM

I'm just posting this first because it won't let me post URL without 5 posts, see the next post for actual content.

#13 OFFLINE   katzeye

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 05:43 PM

Hi all,
Sorry for the delay, but my Father has been busy, so it was hard to get the images. So I hope this gives a good idea of what he is facing. It seems to be it may be too much coverage, but the other two dishes make it, and I guess If you consider the actual angle of the dishes (As addressed above) than it may be clear enough,
If you have any questions feel free to ask.
Thanks Again,
http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/

#14 OFFLINE   katzeye

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 05:45 PM

Argh, well it didn't post the images
But I have the pictures posted @ Flickr
http://www.flickr.co...s/49538724@N00/

#15 OFFLINE   prushing

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 05:57 PM

use this link and do what it says in the post, if you can see the moon at the times, then you can see the satellite

http://www.dbstalk.c...ead.php?t=63277

#16 OFFLINE   dave1234

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 05:58 PM

Argh, well it didn't post the images
But I have the pictures posted @ Flickr
http://www.flickr.co...s/49538724@N00/


I'll ask for some clarification. The title says HD and the Trees. Do you(or did the installer) mean HD from the Sat. or HD from OTA(local broadcast stations)? If it's HD from Sat. it seems you should be able to get a good look at most satellites. If it's HD directly (OTA) from local broadcast stations the trees could definately be a problem.

#17 OFFLINE   igator99

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 06:09 PM

Argh, well it didn't post the images
But I have the pictures posted @ Flickr
http://www.flickr.co...s/49538724@N00/


It looks like you got a shot with that little clearing. No regular D* installer is going to touch it. A local independent pro will get it done if possible but it will cost you. Do you own those trees? I bet it wouldn't cost to much to cut them down or you could do it yourself since it doesn't look like there is another house around and they are far from your house.

#18 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 06:50 PM

Hi all,
Sorry for the delay, but my Father has been busy, so it was hard to get the images. So I hope this gives a good idea of what he is facing. It seems to be it may be too much coverage, but the other two dishes make it, and I guess If you consider the actual angle of the dishes (As addressed above) than it may be clear enough,
If you have any questions feel free to ask.
Thanks Again,

It looks like it could be tough for all of the SATs.
Where does that dish point now?
It's elevation looks to be kind of high which will help. If you can take a shot of the tree line while standing behind the dish, it might give us some more perspective. :)
A.K.A VOS

#19 OFFLINE   katzeye

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 09:41 PM

I'll ask for some clarification. The title says HD and the Trees. Do you(or did the installer) mean HD from the Sat. or HD from OTA(local broadcast stations)? If it's HD from Sat. it seems you should be able to get a good look at most satellites. If it's HD directly (OTA) from local broadcast stations the trees could definately be a problem.


OTA is fine, it is that sat that we were told would be a problem. Luckily the antenna was already installed, so OTA is the only HD he gets right now.

#20 OFFLINE   katzeye

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 09:43 PM

It looks like you got a shot with that little clearing. No regular D* installer is going to touch it. A local independent pro will get it done if possible but it will cost you. Do you own those trees? I bet it wouldn't cost to much to cut them down or you could do it yourself since it doesn't look like there is another house around and they are far from your house.


The trees are ours but the cost is prohibitive. I don't think my father is going to cut them down himself (they are quite large) and I don't think he has enough lumberjacking experience to do it safely.




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