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Second Dish for 119?


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77 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   coreese

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 03:45 PM

I recently installed a Slimline 5LNB dish. I get great reception from all of the satellites except for the 119. There are trees blocking this satelllite that can't be cut. I am considering adding a second dish just for 119. Can I use my old round dish to do this? If so what would I need to wire into Zimwell WB68? I currently have 4 cables running from 5LNB to WB68. There are two additional inputs available but I believe these are for 72.5 for foreign channels. Thanks for your help.

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#2 OFFLINE   ctwilliams

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 03:56 PM

I recently installed a Slimline 5LNB dish. I get great reception from all of the satellites except for the 119. There are trees blocking this satelllite that can't be cut. I am considering adding a second dish just for 119. Can I use my old round dish to do this? If so what would I need to wire into Zimwell WB68? I currently have 4 cables running from 5LNB to WB68. There are two additional inputs available but I believe these are for 72.5 for foreign channels. Thanks for your help.


I have the exact same problem. 119 was fine until the leaves came out. Hopefully this is possible....I have read that the HD channels on 119 will eventually be moved over to one of the new satellites, but that it may be a year or longer for that to happen.

#3 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 04:04 PM

I recently installed a Slimline 5LNB dish. I get great reception from all of the satellites except for the 119. There are trees blocking this satellite that can't be cut. I am considering adding a second dish just for 119. Can I use my old round dish to do this? If so what would I need to wire into Zinwell WB68? I currently have 4 cables running from 5LNB to WB68. There are two additional inputs available but I believe these are for 72.5 for foreign channels. Thanks for your help.

:welcome_s to the forum(s).
You pose and interesting question.
First the flex ports on the Zinwell are for the 95 & 72.5 SATs.
For the 119 you need two control signals 13v & 18v both with 22kHz tone.
Your Zinwell inputs have these marked.
Now I'm not sure but: if you have a dual output LNB on your "old round dish" you might be able to use power passing SAT splitters and connect both outputs of the single LNB to each of the 22 kHz [13v & 18v] inputs of the Zinwell.
If this works you would still have four lines to your 5LNB, with two split to you double output single LNB.

So, anybody see why this won't work?
Or has anybody done this already?
A.K.A VOS

#4 OFFLINE   RobertE

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 04:45 PM

:welcome_s to the forum(s).
You pose and interesting question.
First the flex ports on the Zinwell are for the 95 & 72.5 SATs.
For the 119 you need two control signals 13v & 18v both with 22kHz tone.
Your Zinwell inputs have these marked.
Now I'm not sure but: if you have a dual output LNB on your "old round dish" you might be able to use power passing SAT splitters and connect both outputs of the single LNB to each of the 22 kHz [13v & 18v] inputs of the Zinwell.
If this works you would still have four lines to your 5LNB, with two split to you double output single LNB.

So, anybody see why this won't work?
Or has anybody done this already?


I've suggest this a couple of times in the two dish setup thread. No one ever said it wouldn't work. The only reason I can think of that it wouldn't would be a lack of amps going to the LNBs.
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#5 ONLINE   carl6

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 04:51 PM

I don't know if it would work or not. You do have to keep all 4 lines going to the 5-LNB, because the 22KHz selects more than the 119. It also selects 110, and part of 99/103 (not sure specifically what part).

So, if you have two separate LNB assemblies (the one if the 5-LNB dish, and the separate one in the round dish) both receiving and responding to the 119 request, but only one of the sending the correct data, and the other sending "no signal", I have no idea what your receiver will do with the mixed responses.

My guess is it won't reliably work. But it would be great if someone proved otherwise.

Carl

#6 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 04:53 PM

I've suggest this a couple of times in the two dish setup thread. No one ever said it wouldn't work. The only reason I can think of that it wouldn't would be a lack of amps going to the LNBs.

By "amps" you mean DC power [right?] which could be offset with a Sonora "locker".
A.K.A VOS

#7 OFFLINE   RobertE

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 05:00 PM

By "amps" you mean DC power [right?] which could be offset with a Sonora "locker".


Yes. DC amps. Wish I could find the tech bulletin on the slimline LNB. There was a small batch that went out that needed more power than what a birdog would supply. I think the birdog puts out 250-300ma, these LNBs needed 350ish. So the meter wouldn't show anything.

Anyway, if enough power is getting send out from the MS to power both LNBs, it should work. Or a power locker would be needed. Also as Carl said, who knows what will happen with a good signal and null signal. Maybe someday I'll get ambitious and give it a try. :)
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#8 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 05:02 PM

I don't know if it would work or not. You do have to keep all 4 lines going to the 5-LNB, because the 22KHz selects more than the 119. It also selects 110, and part of 99/103 (not sure specifically what part).

So, if you have two separate LNB assemblies (the one if the 5-LNB dish, and the separate one in the round dish) both receiving and responding to the 119 request, but only one of the sending the correct data, and the other sending "no signal", I have no idea what your receiver will do with the mixed responses.

My guess is it won't reliably work. But it would be great if someone proved otherwise.

Carl

Polarity ________RHCP ____LHCP ______RHCP ______LHCP
Output ________13 V DC __18 V DC _____13 V 22 kHz __18 V 22 kHz
Ka-Lo 250 to
750 MHz ______99º Odd __99º Even ____103º Odd ____103º Even

Ku 950 to 1450
MHz _________101º Odd __101º Even ___119º Odd ____110º/119ºEven

Ka-Hi 1650 to
2150 MHz _____99º Odd ___99º Even ____103º Odd ____103º Even

I think the "improper" response from the "blocked" 119 LNB would be no signal and since this is digital, it "shouldn't" impede the digital signal.
This would work best with the AT9 5LNB dish as the 119 LNB can be unplugged. For the AU9 Slimline foil could be used to mask the 119 LNB.
A.K.A VOS

#9 OFFLINE   coreese

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 05:38 PM

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I have never posted before but was able to do install by reading this forum. The leaves are the problem. Someone asked about second dish. It is 2 LNB model if that helps.

Thanks

#10 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 05:45 PM

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I have never posted before but was able to do install by reading this forum. The leaves are the problem. Someone asked about second dish. It is 2 LNB model if that helps.

Thanks

When you say "2 LNB" do you mean there are two white cones or do you mean there are two coax connections to one white cone?

This is what would work as it is a "single" with dual outputs: http://www.solidsign...oom=Large#xview
A.K.A VOS

#11 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 05:53 PM

This could be done. There is no doubt that with proper notch and pass filters, the 2 signals from the 110/119 dish could be combined with the 4 signals from the slimline. Now the question becomes are all those filters necessary?

For starters, I would use 110 and 119 from one dish as they are normally sent together in the same chunk of frequencies. Combining them together whith two sources just feels like a larger headache.

So on the slimline, I'd block the 110 and 119 LNBs completely. (Or remove them, cut the wires inside, etc.) If possible, I'd use a phase 2 dish with 101 removed, but a phase 3 might work too, but that would likely require a sonora locker to energize and give known outputs.

And the slimline will also likely need a sonora locker. Now that we have two known sets of signals, we just merge them before the WB68 and see what happens. Hopefully the 110/119 range will merge cleanly with the Ka-hi and Ka-lo of the slimline...

Good luck,
Tom

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#12 OFFLINE   litzdog911

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 05:55 PM

It can be done using two AT9 5-LNB dishes. That's how mine is setup. More info here ....
http://www.dbstalk.c...ead.php?t=62223

It *might* be possible using one AT9 plus a single LNB dish for 119-deg. I couldn't make it work, but there are some theories at the end of the thread above on how it might be possible.
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#13 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 06:02 PM

This could be done. There is no doubt that with proper notch and pass filters, the 2 signals from the 110/119 dish could be combined with the 4 signals from the slimline. Now the question becomes are all those filters necessary?

For starters, I would use 110 and 119 from one dish as they are normally sent together in the same chunk of frequencies. Combining them together with two sources just feels like a larger headache.

So on the slimline, I'd block the 110 and 119 LNBs completely. (Or remove them, cut the wires inside, etc.) If possible, I'd use a phase 2 dish with 101 removed, but a phase 3 might work too, but that would likely require a Sonora locker to energize and give known outputs.

And the slimline will also likely need a Sonora locker. Now that we have two known sets of signals, we just merge them before the WB68 and see what happens. Hopefully the 110/119 range will merge cleanly with the Ka-hi and Ka-lo of the slimline...

Good luck,
Tom

:confused: Tom you lost me. The "problem child" is the 119 SAT line of sight.
I think you mixed Dish network into this as D* doesn't have a 110/119 dish. 101 & 119, yes, but with a LNB like I posted the link to...it has the two outputs [single LNB] and could be used for the 119.
Also if a Sonora locker is used, wouldn't the splitters be between the dishes and the locker for the drive power to be sent to both?
A.K.A VOS

#14 OFFLINE   coreese

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 06:09 PM

Should have said dual output LNB. Made for the the 101.

Thanks

#15 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 06:14 PM

It can be done using two AT9 5-LNB dishes. That's how mine is setup. More info here ....
http://www.dbstalk.c...ead.php?t=62223

It *might* be possible using one AT9 plus a single LNB dish for 119-deg. I couldn't make it work, but there are some theories at the end of the thread above on how it might be possible.

I wish I'd seen your thread "back then".
I've read the last page & don't see why it won't work.
In this case 119 from one dish & the others from the Slimline:
Masking off the 119 should remove any stray signals from the Slimline. Adding the dual output LNB to both 13 & 18 volt 22 kHz coaxes to the Zinwell with power passing splitters & if needed a Sonora locker after this & before the Zinwell, should accomplish all of the system requirements.
A.K.A VOS

#16 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 06:15 PM

Should have said dual output LNB. Made for the the 101.

Thanks

Bingo...that's the one and I see no reason why it won't work. see ^^^
A.K.A VOS

#17 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 06:28 PM

Ideally this would use an AT9 dish as this could have the 119 LNB disconnected. This isn't very easy with the AU9 as it is all part of one assembly.
The real reason for the Sonora locker is because one extra LNB would be driven from the power sent from the receiver(s), which might drop the power too much to have enough for them all to work.
A.K.A VOS

#18 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 06:39 PM

:confused: Tom you lost me. The "problem child" is the 119 SAT line of sight.
I think you mixed Dish network into this as D* doesn't have a 110/119 dish. 101 & 119, yes, but with a LNB like I posted the link to...it has the two outputs [single LNB] and could be used for the 119.
Also if a Sonora locker is used, wouldn't the splitters be between the dishes and the locker for the drive power to be sent to both?


Nope, I don't know the E* dishes. :)

What I meant was to combine a phase 2 dish with a sat. c kit with a slimline (first choice) or a phase 3 with a slimline. BUT I would have the phase 2 or phase 3 supplying both the 110/119 signals as they are a singular band of frequencies on the stack plan you quoted.

I would not want to try to merge 119 into a Ka-lo, Ka-hi, 110 cable. I'd much, much rather try to merge a 110/119 into a Ka-lo and Ka-hi cable. Then we're only manipulating a merge of stacked 500mhz bands, not manipulating within a 500mhz band as well.

The reason I'd like a phase 2 dish with a sat. c. kit is we have direct access to the LNB outputs without messing with a switch. But with a locker, I guess it really doesn't matter.

A verbal diagram
[FONT="Fixedsys"]
110/119 dish->locker->splitter (both 22khz signals)
                            +------------------------>WB68
Slimeline---->locker->splitter (both 22khz signals)
[/FONT]

Clearer?
Cheers,
Tom

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#19 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 07:51 PM

Nope, I don't know the E* dishes. :)

What I meant was to combine a phase 2 dish with a sat. c kit with a slimline (first choice) or a phase 3 with a slimline. BUT I would have the phase 2 or phase 3 supplying both the 110/119 signals as they are a singular band of frequencies on the stack plan you quoted.

I would not want to try to merge 119 into a Ka-lo, Ka-hi, 110 cable. I'd much, much rather try to merge a 110/119 into a Ka-lo and Ka-hi cable. Then we're only manipulating a merge of stacked 500mhz bands, not manipulating within a 500mhz band as well.

The reason I'd like a phase 2 dish with a sat. c. kit is we have direct access to the LNB outputs without messing with a switch. But with a locker, I guess it really doesn't matter.

A verbal diagram

[FONT=Fixedsys]110/119 dish->locker->splitter (both 22khz signals)[/FONT]
[FONT=Fixedsys]                         +------------------------>WB68[/FONT]
[FONT=Fixedsys]Slimline---->locker->splitter (both 22khz signals)[/FONT]

Clearer?
Cheers,
Tom

Where my :confused: came from:
Phase one: SAT A 101
Phase two: SAT A & B 101 & 119
Phase three: SAT A, B, & C 101, 119, & 110
Now for the control signals:
RHCP, 13 V 22 kHz = 103 odd & 119 odd. I don't see a conflict
LHCP, 18 V 22 kHz = 103 even, 110 even, & 119 even. I still don't see the conflict because 110 has transponders 8, 10, & 12, and 119 uses only transponders above 21. so they share the same band with no conflicts. If they had a conflict then there would need to be more control signals for the multi-switch to resolve it with the phase three dish.
I hope this will make things a bit clearer, as 110 & 119 do share the 950 to 1450 MHz band.

So for the OP, there is no reason yet posted that this doesn't work for you if you follow this:
Slimline---> splitters---> locker ----> multi-switch---> receivers
119 dish--2---^--^
Where there are two splitters [one on the 13v 22 kHz & the second on the 18v 22 kHz]
A.K.A VOS

#20 ONLINE   carl6

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 10:04 PM

Okay, I'm going to test this and see what happens.

First test: AU9 slimline and a round 18" dual LNB aimed at 119. Will use dual power passing 40-2050 MHz splitters. Will cover the 119 LNB on the AU9 with foil to block signal.

Second test: AU9 slimline and a phase III. Will use same splitters and only mix the 22KHz feeds from both dishes. Will cover 110 and 119 LNB's on the AU9, and 101 LNB on the Phase III.

In both cases, will use the test channels (490-494) to determine results, as well as viewing MPEG4 feeds on HR20 while stepping through test channels on another receiver to make sure I can get both at the same time.

I don't have a sonora, but do have a couple of powered 5x8's I can use. Will use one connected to a WB68 to get it to lock the 4 inputs from the AU9 properly, and will use the other to lock the round and/or phase III if/as needed.

Will try both tests tomorrow and will post results here.

Carl




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