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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Please Record "Test Pattern" Tonight


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31 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Milominderbinder2

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 07:55 AM

I would like to confirm the Test Results on a few other HR20's for 0x15a (or 0x145 now tha tthis is in Q & A) if possible.

Please record "Test Pattern" on HDNet Channel 79 on Sunday morning at 5:50 am CDT.

It is 10 minutes long.

Test Slip
Play Test Pattern. Press Pause. Press REW once or twice to back up to 9:59.

Test Slip (technically Advance) by pressing it 10 times. You should be at 5:00 now.

You won't be. Mine is 4:20 seconds or 34 seconds per Slip.

That is why your Slip never hits right coming out of commercial.

Pause. Note your exact time. Please report that back here.

If you have a digital watch or better a stopwatch, you can time Slip. Back in Novembers it was just over 1 second per Slip. Now it is 1.85 seconds to do one Slip.

Test Replay
Press Replay 20 times, not to fast. You want all 20 to lock in.

Tell us the how much time you moved on screen for 20 Replays.

Imagine the fun you will have tomorrow!

Tonight is your night to download!

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#2 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 08:25 AM

That is why your Slip never hits right coming out of commercial.


Most commercial breaks are between 3 and 4 minutes long. 6 - 7 slips is usually perfect, regardless of how long they are supposed to be. And if you overshoot, 2 - 4 replays puts you right about where you need to be.

No, Slip and Replay aren't perfect but you're making a usability mountain out of a molehill in the grand scheme of things.

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#3 OFFLINE   HDTVsportsfan

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 08:29 AM

I will certainly make an effort to do this.
If I remember correctly when I did this a few weeks back (multiple times for Replay), the Replay X 20 came out right on time. But again, I'll test it again.
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#4 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 08:45 AM

From a previously recorded HD Net test pattern (recorded prior to 15a, played with 15a):

Six forward slips consistently slips 3:23, approx 23 seconds more than it should.
Ten back skips consistently skips back 1:01, approx one second more than it should.

Both were tested at varying times during the ten minute test pattern.

Carl

#5 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 09:32 AM

10 30-second slips from 9:59 gets me to 4:21.

6 slips moves me 3:23 as well, same as Carl.

20 Replays moves me back 2:01, almost dead on.

I get basically the same results on all four of my HR20's. Recorded the pattern on all of them to make video adjustments.

Of course this is only measuring MPEG-2 performance. And with static frames to boot. The best of all possible video sources. As we all know by now, MPEG-4 cruise controls are still wildly erratic and more dependent on program content. I think they need to work on the MPEG-4 encoding a bit before they can "tweak" the cruise controls further. /s
/steve

#6 OFFLINE   mgcsooner

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 09:53 AM

10 30-second slips from 9:59 gets me to 4:21.

6 slips moves me 3:23 as well, same as Carl.

20 Replays moves me back 2:01, almost dead on.

I get basically the same results on all four of my HR20's. Recorded the pattern on all of them to make video adjustments.

Of course this is only measuring MPEG-2 performance. And with static frames to boot. The best of all possible video sources. As we all know by now, MPEG-4 cruise controls are still wildly erratic and more dependent on program content. I think they need to work on the MPEG-4 encoding a bit before they can "tweak" the cruise controls further. /s


10 slips to 4:19. Seems pretty consistantly off, but that is only 3 seconds on average off, not too bad.
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#7 OFFLINE   psweig

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 10:02 AM

Most commercial breaks are between 3 and 4 minutes long. 6 - 7 slips is usually perfect, regardless of how long they are supposed to be. And if you overshoot, 2 - 4 replays puts you right about where you need to be.

No, Slip and Replay aren't perfect but you're making a usability mountain out of a molehill in the grand scheme of things.


this is no molehill!! This is a deal breaker for some. Those of us coming from the instant skip do not want the "slip" to get longer and longer. What's the point? You may as well use FF and make the "skip" only a dream.:eek2:
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#8 OFFLINE   jmschnur

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 11:20 AM

10x Slip = 4.19 for me
20x replay = 2:22 for me
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#9 OFFLINE   Just J

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 11:25 AM

Test Slip
Play Test Pattern. Press Pause. Press REW once or twice to back up to 9:59.

Test Slip (technically Advance) by pressing it 10 times. You should be at 5:00 now.

Test Replay
Press Replay 20 times, not to fast. You want all 20 to lock in.

Tell us the how much time you moved on screen for 20 Replays.


10 Advances From 9:59 while paused consistently moves to 4:19

20 Replays from 6:00 consistently moves to 8:03.

#10 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 11:38 AM

I reported these types of timings many months and CE releases ago, nothing has changed. It's something you'd think would be easy to fix but I guess not, or D* doesn't care about it at this time due to higher priorities.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#11 OFFLINE   SuperTech1

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 12:04 PM

Most commercial breaks are between 3 and 4 minutes long. 6 - 7 slips is usually perfect, regardless of how long they are supposed to be. And if you overshoot, 2 - 4 replays puts you right about where you need to be.

No, Slip and Replay aren't perfect but you're making a usability mountain out of a molehill in the grand scheme of things.


this is no molehill!! This is a deal breaker for some. Those of us coming from the instant skip do not want the "slip" to get longer and longer. What's the point? You may as well use FF and make the "skip" only a dream.:eek2:


It doesn't rise to the level of molehill for me. If all commercials were exactly the same length it might be different.
I concur with the 6-7 slip method. If a few seconds here or there is a "deal breaker" our priorities are miles apart. :nono2::)
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#12 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 12:12 PM

It doesn't rise to the level of molehill for me. If all commercials were exactly the same length it might be different.
I concur with the 6-7 slip method. If a few seconds here or there is a "deal breaker" our priorities are miles apart. :nono2::)

Something tells me you and Lefty may not be ex-HR10 users. Many of us "Tivo-refugees" are totally spoiled and want what we gave up! :) /s
/steve

#13 OFFLINE   litzdog911

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 12:20 PM

On my HR20:
10x slip goes from 9:59 to 4:21, or ~34sec/slip instead of 30sec
20x replay takes 2:01, almost exactly 6sec/replay

On my HR10
10x slip goes from 9:59 to 4:57, almost exactly 30sec/slip
20x replay takes 2:01, almost exactly 6sec/replay
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#14 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 12:31 PM

30 secs... 34 secs... no big deal. That's what the 6 secs replay is for.


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#15 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 12:31 PM

I am TiVo user still and an HR20 user. To me, and me alone, I slightly prefer slip. I'd like it faster/smoother, but this is very, very old ground. We will not see skip, IMHO.

The anal retentive, perfectionist in me would say "By God, it absolutely MUST be 30 seconds exactly and 6 seconds precisely or heads will roll!". Fortunately, that is a small part of my thinking and the more realistic engineer comes out and says "So what? What is really the big deal that 1 slip is very nearly 30 seconds but 10 slips is not 5:00.0?" I can never remember that "Crossing Jordan" has 4 slips in the first break, 6 in the second, and 8 in the third anyway. I punch a few times, what the rhythm of the commercials and add accordingly.

Sure, this is not a sign of good programming practice nor of good QA. But is the time length a deal breaker? (Ignoring the skip/slip argument.)

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#16 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 12:43 PM

Using a previous recording of test pattern (and CE release 15a):

10 slips starting at 9:59 ended at 4:20 (33.9 seconds each)
20 replays starting at 4:00 ended at 6:00, or a total of 2 minutes (6 seconds each)

#17 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 01:52 PM

Sure, this is not a sign of good programming practice nor of good QA. But is the time length a deal breaker? (Ignoring the skip/slip argument.)

Not for me. I never used the Tivo 30 second skip precisely for the reasons you mentioned (not knowing how many to stack). I greatly preferred autocorrected 2x or 3x FF, stopped with the "replay" button.

Variable Replay button time on the HR20 will get me close to that, if the engineers will please look at the Wish List. It would be a no harm/no foul feature change. Those that like it the way it is won't have to change anything. And those of us that want a longer Replay time can have it. /s
/steve

#18 OFFLINE   Milominderbinder2

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 07:37 PM

Six forward slips consistently slips 3:23, approx 23 seconds more than it should.
Ten back skips consistently skips back 1:01, approx one second more than it should.

10 30-second slips from 9:59 gets me to 4:21.
6 slips moves me 3:23 as well, same as Carl.
20 Replays moves me back 2:01, almost dead on.

10 slips to 4:19. Seems pretty consistently off, but that is only 3 seconds on average off, not too bad.

this is no molehill!! This is a deal breaker for some. Those of us coming from the instant skip do not want the "slip" to get longer and longer. What's the point? You may as well use FF and make the "skip" only a dream.:eek2:

10x Slip = 4.19 for me
20x replay = 2:22 for me

10 Advances From 9:59 while paused consistently moves to 4:19
20 Replays from 6:00 consistently moves to 8:03.

Thank you all!

OK, this is dead on with what I get and have release after release.

Skip was at one point near Christmas, was 1 second for 30 seconds. Now it is way off for all of us.

Do you want to try some Channel Changes? For HD-HD go 72-90 and back until you get 20 full channel changes. Try it with and without Native. Go to 200 and channel up 10 times and then don 10 times to average SD-SD.

If you look at the OP Test Results link, you can see that something just killed the channel change speed back after 13b. Why can't they give us back the speed?

Here are things that I found will increase channel change performance:
1. Turn off Native Mode.
2. Turn off all resolutions but one: either 1080i or 720p depending on your display's native resolution.
3. Use IR instead of RF Remote Mode.
4. Do not be recording on the other channel. For increased speed it leapfrogs back and forth between tuners.
5. It will be faster the second time you go through a set of channels.
6. Channel up and channel down times are not the same.

Are there any other speed tips that you have found?

- Craig

#19 OFFLINE   Coffey77

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 10:12 PM

All set to record. I'll let you know what I find out.
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#20 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 05:27 AM

OK, this is dead on with what I get and have release after release.

Be great if we could find a way to measure MPEG-4 performance.

Anyone know of any MPEG-4 shows with a comparable on-screen countdown or MM:SS clock we can all record?

Something with a lot of moving content would be better, if possible. I don't believe the compression/decompression going on with the HDNet pattern represents a sufficient challenge to the HR20. It's a best-case scenario, IMO. /s
/steve




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