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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Does anyone REALLY know why no DLB?


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112 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   KirkusTX

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 06:39 PM

After one of my two HR10-250's lost a drive, I decided to finallly make the switch, and I have to say I've been pleasantly surprised so far with the HR20. Like many others, I miss the DLB, and I'm really curious why we don't have them.

I'm not looking for DirecTV bashing or Murdoch conspiracy theories, but given that DLB has been hugely popular with former TIVO users, and that other DVR's manufacturers have implemented it (so it must not be a patent issue), and finally, with the ability to record two shows at once, it would seem to be a relatively simple and popular feature to implement. Does anyone have any inside info as to why it's not available? And BTW, my non-HD non-TIVO DVR (Hughes) also has this feature.

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#2 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 06:44 PM

Flat out...

DirecTV chose not to have that feature with the R15, and that carried into the HR20...

It is not a patent issue...

It simply is a feature that DirecTV has opted not to include yet.
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#3 OFFLINE   HarleyD

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 06:52 PM

Or the immortal timeless explanation courtesy of Steve Martin...

I forgot!
"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible."
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#4 OFFLINE   LOBO2999

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 07:00 PM

I hate that there is no dlb , I was trying to pause and switch to another channel the other day .

#5 OFFLINE   johnck78

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 07:25 PM

So far for me, and I've had this box since January, it is the only real shortcoming from my Tivo!! I used this feature alot, especially on game day (football)
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#6 OFFLINE   KirkusTX

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 06:23 AM

Flat out...

DirecTV chose not to have that feature with the R15, and that carried into the HR20...

It is not a patent issue...

It simply is a feature that DirecTV has opted not to include yet.


Thanks, Earl. It seems like such an odd decision from a marketing perspective, I wonder if the exclusion provided some other benefit that would otherwise be given up, ie the 90 minute buffer (versus 30). I wouldn't think so, but I'm not a programmer. Obviously, its something that occurred in the R15 development timeframe. I wonder if these guys were testing prior TIVO users, or sports fans, for that matter.

I know this dead horse is starting to stink pretty bad, but it seems somewhat akin to if they had "decided" not to record the 5.1 stream. It's obviously a feature many of us like, were use to and now miss. I'd love to know what took place around that DirecTV table when the topic of DLB came up and they said, "Yeah, let's don't do that.":confused:

#7 OFFLINE   Bobby42

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 06:42 AM

Thanks, Earl. It seems like such an odd decision from a marketing perspective, I wonder if the exclusion provided some other benefit that would otherwise be given up, ie the 90 minute buffer (versus 30). I wouldn't think so, but I'm not a programmer. Obviously, its something that occurred in the R15 development timeframe. I wonder if these guys were testing prior TIVO users, or sports fans, for that matter.

I know this dead horse is starting to stink pretty bad, but it seems somewhat akin to if they had "decided" not to record the 5.1 stream. It's obviously a feature many of us like, were use to and now miss. I'd love to know what took place around that DirecTV table when the topic of DLB came up and they said, "Yeah, let's don't do that.":confused:


I'm guessing the conversation went something like this:
You have x weeks to complete the product and get it out the door. We want features A, B, C, and DLB.

The programmers came back and said, to get A,B,C, and DLB we need x+y weeks.

Ok, what do you have to drop to get it done in x weeks?

DLB.

Ok, drop DLB and finish in x weeks.

Software features from major companies are always a matter of schedule time. Marketing gets a date fixed in their head when you have to finish and work backwards from there to see what you can include.

#8 OFFLINE   glennb

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 06:50 AM

I don't really miss DLB.

Don't care if we ever get it on the HR20.

#9 OFFLINE   HarleyD

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 07:22 AM

It is a missing feature I am reminded of mutiple times daily. I have not gotten to a point where I don't miss it and don't believe that I will. The question is whether this irritation will callus over or will it fester and worsen.

And each time I am reminded that I no longer have DLB, I am mystified as to the supporting logic behind the conscioius decision to not include this feature.

Many months ago Earl implied that some of the underlying reasoning had been shared with him and that he at least understood and somewhat agreed with it.

But the fact that he could not share those reasons with us leads me to suspect that those reasons could inflame negative sentiment among the subscribers. I end up imagining things like content providers leveraged D* into either doing this to force increased exposure to commercials or paying more for the content they provide. Pure speculation, but left to my own imagination I tend to conjure up the more negative possibilites.

Not knowing gnaws at me daily. It brings out the conspiracy theorist in me.
"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible."
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#10 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 07:28 AM

After one of my two HR10-250's lost a drive, I decided to finallly make the switch, and I have to say I've been pleasantly surprised so far with the HR20. Like many others, I miss the DLB, and I'm really curious why we don't have them.

I'm not looking for DirecTV bashing or Murdoch conspiracy theories, but given that DLB has been hugely popular with former TIVO users, and that other DVR's manufacturers have implemented it (so it must not be a patent issue), and finally, with the ability to record two shows at once, it would seem to be a relatively simple and popular feature to implement. Does anyone have any inside info as to why it's not available? And BTW, my non-HD non-TIVO DVR (Hughes) also has this feature.


I posted my own theory here.

http://www.dbstalk.c...5&postcount=587

Just and opnion...............

Mike

µß
Since it costs 2.4¢ to produce a penny, my 2¢ worth is really 4.8¢ worth.  That 4.8¢ is my own and not the 4.8¢ of DIRECTV, Dish, or anyone else for that matter.


#11 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 07:30 AM

Many months ago Earl implied that some of the underlying reasoning had been shared with him and that he at least understood and somewhat agreed with it.

But the fact that he could not share those reasons with us leads me to suspect that those reasons could inflame negative sentiment among the subscribers. I end up imagining things like content providers leveraged D* into either doing this to force increased exposure to commercials or paying more for the content they provide. Pure speculation, but left to my own imagination I tend to conjure up the more negative possibilites.

Not knowing gnaws at me daily. It brings out the conspiracy theorist in me.


You think to hard...

It has nothing to do with content providers... as they would love for you to watch two things at once, vs record it and watch later. (a lot easier to skip the commercials when it is completely recorded, vs watching in a buffer).
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#12 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 07:34 AM

I'm guessing the conversation went something like this:
You have x weeks to complete the product and get it out the door. We want features A, B, C, and DLB.

The programmers came back and said, to get A,B,C, and DLB we need x+y weeks.


Actually the conversation went more like this:

What should the box be:
-) A DVR first, then a LIVE TV receiver 2nd
-) A Live TV receiver first, then a DVR

How do most people use a DVR?

I am still amazed today, how many LONG term (multiple year), users of TiVo based systems (both DTivos and the SA-DTs), don't know they have two live buffers and managed to survive.

Now not having dual buffers for almost two years (Starting with the R15).. I simply don't miss it one bit... I watch everything pre-recorded... minus sporting events. And even then, I am rarely actively watching two at a time... even on Sunday's with Footbal.

Even last night... American Idol... we started to watch it live... but just couldn't take it (the blah-blah blah and the commercials), so we watched something else that was pre-recorded... and came back to watch IDOL when it was finished recording.
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#13 OFFLINE   HarleyD

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 07:43 AM

You think to hard...

I know. I pretty much said so. ;)

I also get tweeked when I know I don't know something someone else knows. :lol:
"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible."
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#14 OFFLINE   tiger2005

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 08:34 AM

It is a missing feature I am reminded of mutiple times daily. I have not gotten to a point where I don't miss it and don't believe that I will. The question is whether this irritation will callus over or will it fester and worsen.



Totally agree. My irritation with this has done nothing but fester which is REALLY annoying. Its come to the point that I've even started looking into canceling my D* service and moving to Comcast. This thought process has started to evolve with me researching Comcast installation, etc. in my area because for the next 30 days I would be able to cancel my D* without paying a cancellation fee since they just updated their customer agreements. I'm not sure if I'm willing to jump YET, but the festering will only get worse and worse and at some point I WILL be switching providers if the HR20 doesn't include DLB.
Thanks for DLB!! Best feature available on a DVR, bar none!

#15 OFFLINE   closer9

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 08:37 AM

Now not having dual buffers for almost two years (Starting with the R15).. I simply don't miss it one bit... I watch everything pre-recorded... minus sporting events. And even then, I am rarely actively watching two at a time... even on Sunday's with Footbal.

Even last night... American Idol... we started to watch it live... but just couldn't take it (the blah-blah blah and the commercials), so we watched something else that was pre-recorded... and came back to watch IDOL when it was finished recording.


Agreed.

I'm pretty new around here, but I used the older TiVo DVR for years and used the DLB frequently. About 2 months ago I upgraded to HD and got the HR20 and to be honest, I really don't miss DLB very much. Sure there are times I wish it was there, but I'd rather see other things fixed / implemented before DLB (read: dimming the bright ass blue and orange leds :-)

#16 ONLINE   Diana C

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 09:05 AM

Keep a couple of things in mind:

1) The DirecTV+ DVR software used the Sky+ DVR software as a starting point (and let me tell you the DirecTV+ software is LIGHT YEARS ahead of the Sky+).

2) As a result of point 1, the general concept was that the second buffer was thought of as being like the tuner in a VCR - it only exists to allow the user to record one programming while watching another.

3) Managing FIFO buffers of A/V data is tricky - managing 2 is even trickier. I suspect that the potential for de-stabilizing the software when retrofitting DLB into software that was designed around SLB was judged to be an unwarranted risk, particularly considering points 1 and 2.

4) As noted, MANY TiVo users either don't know that they have DLB or else they don't use it.

The decision to not have DLB is like TiVo's decision to make the buffer only 30 minutes long. There is no showstopper technical reason (indeed, I've hacked my DirecTiVos to have dual 120 minute buffers) - it is just what they decided.

#17 OFFLINE   wilbur_the_goose

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 09:13 AM

Let me put it this way - I'd pay more for DLB.

DirecTV customer since 1996


#18 OFFLINE   mr anderson

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 09:33 AM

You and me both.

I would have gladly upped to the $7500 a year platinum package.

And all they would have had to do was give me a straight answer, through their proxy here of course.

#19 OFFLINE   bidger

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 09:36 AM

Only used it during the NFL Season and found the big limitation was if one of my fingers slipped across the Ch+/- button before I could hit Cancel, *poof*...the buffer was gone. Regular TV programs I just record to make sure that doesn't occur.

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#20 OFFLINE   mr anderson

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 09:38 AM

Only used it during the NFL Season and found the big limitation was if one of my fingers slipped across the Ch+/- button before I could hit Cancel, *poof*...the buffer was gone. Regular TV programs I just record to make sure that doesn't occur.


So you're saying because you don't know how to work a remote we shouldn't have it or you could care less?

Very insightful, thank you.




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