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DLB exist its just a software bug


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150 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   davel

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 09:27 PM

Feel free to say that this has already been brought up but after watching tv this weekend and reproducing the issue, DLB's should be doable. Is this new with this version of software or has this always been around.

Take channel 1 and channel 2, neither recording. If I use previous channel the buffers are lost (duhh). The work around has already been to record both.

10:50
Now I am watching channel 1 for ten minutes and I switch back to channel 2

11:00 channel 1 starts recording (while watching channel 2)

11:10 I switch back to channel 1 and rewind... I can rewind into the buffer past 11:00.... even after watching channel 2. This proves that the buffer exists on channel 1even while on the channel 2.

I go to the guide (while watching channel 1) at 11:15 and record channel 2. The buffer is recorded from 10:50.....

This proves that there are DLB, and the buffer is lost when changing BACK to the channel not away from the channel.

DTV fix the crappy software and give me true DLB's!!!:mad: :mad:

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#2 OFFLINE   BillyBob_jcv

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 11:12 PM

I think I understand what you are saying - since there seems to be a buffer available when a tuner is recording, that buffer should also be available when watching live - right? Maybe - I do think it would be odd if the recording was being done directly to disk with no buffer - that doesn't sound like a very efficient way to handle the disk I/O. IDK... :scratchin

#3 OFFLINE   stogie5150

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 02:36 PM

I think that that is the reason why those of us that want DLB are confused. The HR20 seems to be capable of it, just that Directv doesn't see fit to let us have it. I understand that there may be other issues. But I don't recall ever seeing that the receiver wasn't capable of doing it.

Come on, if a Moxie box can do it, why can't the HR20?:confused:
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#4 OFFLINE   Mike P

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 12:24 AM

Juicy thread! Oh man, I'd be such a happy camper with Dual Live Buffers!!!
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#5 OFFLINE   jgrade

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 07:23 AM

Feel free to say that this has already been brought up but after watching tv this weekend and reproducing the issue, DLB's should be doable. Is this new with this version of software or has this always been around.

DTV fix the crappy software and give me true DLB's!!!:mad: :mad:


OK I will; For the love of ..... not another DLB thread. There is nothing to fix. The software is not broken. No one ever promised DLB nor was it advertised nor has it ever been a part of the software, so how is this broken? We all know it's doable; D just decided not to do it.

There I feel much freer having said that.
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#6 OFFLINE   garywitt

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 10:33 AM

OK I will; For the love of ..... not another DLB thread. There is nothing to fix. The software is not broken. No one ever promised DLB nor was it advertised nor has it ever been a part of the software, so how is this broken? We all know it's doable; D just decided not to do it.

There I feel much freer having said that.


I think we need more DLB threads. More DLB posts. More emails to DirecTV regarding DLB until they realize how important it is to their customers. After all, this is their "flagship receiver."

D just decided not to do it? Why? That just doesn't make sense to me. Earl has said that DLB has not been taken off the table - but why are they not committing to implementing DLB? We know the hardware can do it. We know customers want it. What is the downside?
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#7 OFFLINE   techntrek

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 11:07 AM

When the original could do it from day 1 (Tivo) AND it is such a major feature, all the knockoffs have no choice but to implement it or be considered "inferior".
How do I enable DLB for my life?

#8 OFFLINE   dpd0961

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 11:11 AM

I think we need more DLB threads. More DLB posts. More emails to DirecTV regarding DLB until they realize how important it is to their customers. After all, this is their "flagship receiver."

D just decided not to do it? Why? That just doesn't make sense to me. Earl has said that DLB has not been taken off the table - but why are they not committing to implementing DLB? We know the hardware can do it. We know customers want it. What is the downside?


I agree 100%. Why can't we at least get some kind of statement from DirectTV on this? A definite, one way or the other It feels like we are just being strung along with this by being told it's not on the table, and it's not off the table. If there is a problem getting this implemented on this box, it would be nice to know that. This is obviously a very important feature to a lot of subscribers, myself included, and the one glaring omission remaining from this box in my opinion. I still have hope that it will be added, but I agree that we need to keep beating them over the head with this, unfortunately.
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#9 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 11:27 AM

Note: This is not comming from DirecTV... just out of my frustration of people demanding a definitive answer, when there isn't one to give...
--------------

What do you want DirecTV to say?

"No, DLB is not comming"...
but then maybe in 6 months, or a year from now it does...
"Sorry, we where only kidding back then... "

Basically, it is not there today, won't be there "tomorrow", but it doesn't mean it will NEVER be there. So make your choices on converting based on those facts....

It is still on the "table", it has not been swept away... it has not been definitively put in the "we will never do it" bucket.

As to every dvr being "inferior" to TiVo because TiVo has dual live buffers...
Please... a DVR is for recording... Is it a nice feature if you MUST watch two live programs at once... but to claim everything else is "inferior" because you can watch two programs at once on a RECORDING device...
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#10 OFFLINE   NYHeel

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 11:34 AM

Note: This is not comming from DirecTV... just out of my frustration of people demanding a definitive answer, when there isn't one to give...
--------------

What do you want DirecTV to say?

"No, DLB is not comming"...
but then maybe in 6 months, or a year from now it does...
"Sorry, we where only kidding back then... "

Basically, it is not there today, won't be there "tomorrow", but it doesn't mean it will NEVER be there. So make your choices on converting based on those facts....

It is still on the "table", it has not been swept away... it has not been definitively put in the "we will never do it" bucket.

As to every dvr being "inferior" to TiVo because TiVo has dual live buffers...
Please... a DVR is for recording... Is it a nice feature if you MUST watch two live programs at once... but to claim everything else is "inferior" because you can watch two programs at once on a RECORDING device...

We want Directv to tell us why we don't have DLB? Why is it not a priority? So many people seem to want it and it seems so easy to implement.

I agree that DLB is a luxury feature outside of the core features of a DVR. I was very intruiged when I got my first DTivo and figured out how to use it. Now I'm very used to it and consider it a basic part of a DVR. Now remember that the DTivo was not a Tivo. It was a Directv DVR powered by Tivo. So basically Directv had a "Directv DVR" with DLB and now has a "Directv DVR" without it. That's why I'm annoyed about it. When you're upgrading a product you don't want to take away features.

#11 OFFLINE   dpd0961

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 11:43 AM

Note: This is not comming from DirecTV... just out of my frustration of people demanding a definitive answer, when there isn't one to give...
--------------

What do you want DirecTV to say?

"No, DLB is not comming"...
but then maybe in 6 months, or a year from now it does...
"Sorry, we where only kidding back then... "

Basically, it is not there today, won't be there "tomorrow", but it doesn't mean it will NEVER be there. So make your choices on converting based on those facts....

It is still on the "table", it has not been swept away... it has not been definitively put in the "we will never do it" bucket.

As to every dvr being "inferior" to TiVo because TiVo has dual live buffers...
Please... a DVR is for recording... Is it a nice feature if you MUST watch two live programs at once... but to claim everything else is "inferior" because you can watch two programs at once on a RECORDING device...


I guess the question that at least I would like answered is, "does DirecTV plan on implementing DLB's to the HR20?" Not even necessarily a timeframe, but is it in their plans at some point? I don't feel that's an unreasonable question to ask. It's a hot button for a lot of people, and it would be nice to know DirecTV's thoughts. I have no plans to leave DirecTV, so I'm not looking to base any conversion decisions on this, I just think this is a great feature and if they could add it, that would be nice to know. If they can't add it or won't add it for whatever reason, people should know that too, so they could forget about this. I don't think the "DLB people" are really asking for too much.
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#12 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 11:53 AM

We want Directv to tell us why we don't have DLB? Why is it not a priority? So many people seem to want it and it seems so easy to implement.


Why we don't have DLB? DirecTV chose not to put it in THEIR DVR platform. As for why they chose that... no idea.. .and I doubt we will ever be told.

Why is it not a priority? DirecTV has opted to make other features a priority based on the THEIR goals on what they want to do for THEIR service.

"it seems so easy to implement"... as any software developer can tell you, what might "seem" easy on the surface, can be EXTREMELY difficult to implement underneath. (Note I am not saying that is or isn't, just that perception doesn't always equal reality)

-----------
The HR20 was not billed as an "upgrade" to TiVo or the Ultimate TV..
It is a new product line.

Not every single feature from other products will be included in the next product. Especially if it is a new product line, not based on the previous.

So anyone assuming that every feature you had in your TiVo, which as you stated, was nothing more then an SA TiVo with an integrated DirecTV tuner....
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#13 OFFLINE   tiger2005

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 11:55 AM

Note: This is not comming from DirecTV... just out of my frustration of people demanding a definitive answer, when there isn't one to give...
--------------
As to every dvr being "inferior" to TiVo because TiVo has dual live buffers...
Please... a DVR is for recording... Is it a nice feature if you MUST watch two live programs at once... but to claim everything else is "inferior" because you can watch two programs at once on a RECORDING device...



Earl,
Who said that a DVR had to ONLY be used to watch programs hours after they aired or days later??? Last I checked, a DVR recorder is used to TIMESHIFT a program that is airing live. It doesn't matter if that timeshift is two months or 5 seconds. Its still a function of a DVR to record a 'live' stream and be able to play it at w/e time the user so chooses. TiVo opened many peoples eyes to having the ability to record two of those 'live' streams and timeshift them to whenever the user so chooses within that 30 minute buffer period.

Based on your response you would advocate a box that you basically set to record those shows you want and then NEVER watch anything LIVE. Without the ability to watch a program as it airs, thereby not having a need for even a single live buffer. That's called a VCR and I'm pretty sure we've moved beyond that type of technology.

The problem is that DLB may have the name 'Live' in it, but the feature that people want is the ability to buffer two programs within a pre-set length of time so they can timeshift their programming. IMO, that feature DOES classify it as a RECORDING device.
Thanks for DLB!! Best feature available on a DVR, bar none!

#14 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 11:56 AM

I guess the question that at least I would like answered is, "does DirecTV plan on implementing DLB's to the HR20?" Not even necessarily a timeframe, but is it in their plans at some point? I don't feel that's an unreasonable question to ask. It's a hot button for a lot of people, and it would be nice to know DirecTV's thoughts. I have no plans to leave DirecTV, so I'm not looking to base any conversion decisions on this, I just think this is a great feature and if they could add it, that would be nice to know. If they can't add it or won't add it for whatever reason, people should know that too, so they could forget about this. I don't think the "DLB people" are really asking for too much.


Okay: Straight answer:

At this point, they do not have an active plan to implement DLB.

DLB has not been officially, once and forall, eliminated from the system.
Simply means, that it is not on the active list of features to be implemented.
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#15 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 12:02 PM

Earl,
Who said that a DVR had to ONLY be used to watch programs hours after they aired or days later??? Last I checked, a DVR recorder is used to TIMESHIFT a program that is airing live. It doesn't matter if that timeshift is two months or 5 seconds. Its still a function of a DVR to record a 'live' stream and be able to play it at w/e time the user so chooses. TiVo opened many peoples eyes to having the ability to record two of those 'live' streams and timeshift them to whenever the user so chooses within that 30 minute buffer period.

Based on your response you would advocate a box that you basically set to record those shows you want and then NEVER watch anything LIVE. Without the ability to watch a program as it airs, thereby not having a need for even a single live buffer. That's called a VCR and I'm pretty sure we've moved beyond that type of technology.

The problem is that DLB may have the name 'Live' in it, but the feature that people want is the ability to buffer two programs within a pre-set length of time so they can timeshift their programming. IMO, that feature DOES classify it as a RECORDING device.


You are right... you can watch live programming...
And you can time shift two things at once... simply hit record on that second program (or the first as well).

That is the entire benefit of a DVR... timeshift it...
Just because you don't have a floating buffer that already does the recording for you.

And you can do just what you asked... you can "buffer" two programs within a pre-set length of time... that pre-set length of time, is the stated length of the program. Instead of a fixed 30 minute buffer (As it is in the TiVo).

If that 2nd program is THAT important, that you must watch it at the same time as another... record it...watch it when the first one is done.

"TiVo open the eyes"... TiVo got people "programmed" that is the only way to watch two programs that are on "right now". And IMHO... that is why people are so adimit about DLB... because that is what they know.... and don't want to change.
Earl - Gotta Love Karma

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#16 OFFLINE   dpd0961

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 12:20 PM

Okay: Straight answer:

At this point, they do not have an active plan to implement DLB.

DLB has not been officially, once and forall, eliminated from the system.
Simply means, that it is not on the active list of features to be implemented.


I didn't ask about active plan to implement, I think we all understand by now that it's not currently "on the table" I asked about any future thoughts on implementation. Basically, CAN it be done? And assuming it can, do they think they will be able add this at some point. I just have a hard time believing they don't have that answer at this point after months of acknowledging that this is a feature that a lot of subscribers want. I think this is what is driving people crazy, and then in conjunction we're obviously driving you crazy.

I do happen to work with software, and where I work, we know what we're going to do plenty of time in advance. We also have to answer customers that ask questions about whether or not we can do something, and if we will be able to get to that request at some time in the future.
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#17 OFFLINE   morbid_fun

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 12:26 PM

I didn't ask about active plan to implement, I think we all understand by now that it's not currently "on the table" I asked about any future thoughts on implementation. Basically, CAN it be done? And assuming it can, do they think they will be able add this at some point. I just have a hard time believing they don't have that answer at this point after months of acknowledging that this is a feature that a lot of subscribers want. I think this is what is driving people crazy, and then in conjunction we're obviously driving you crazy.

I do happen to work with software, and where I work, we know what we're going to do plenty of time in advance. We also have to answer customers that ask questions about whether or not we can do something, and if we will be able to get to that request at some time in the future.


I am afraid I have to side with Earl on this. What is so hard to understand about Earl's answer? DirecTV knows we want the feature. The feature is still on the table. That is all anyone, including Earl, knows right now.
I realize many people want the feature. I do as well, but we really need to drop the cycle of complaining about the feature not being there and stick with more current happenings, both in DirecTV world and the nation.
Just my two cents.

#18 OFFLINE   tiger2005

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 12:28 PM

You are right... you can watch live programming...
And you can time shift two things at once... simply hit record on that second program (or the first as well).

That is the entire benefit of a DVR... timeshift it...
Just because you don't have a floating buffer that already does the recording for you.

And you can do just what you asked... you can "buffer" two programs within a pre-set length of time... that pre-set length of time, is the stated length of the program. Instead of a fixed 30 minute buffer (As it is in the TiVo).

If that 2nd program is THAT important, that you must watch it at the same time as another... record it...watch it when the first one is done.

"TiVo open the eyes"... TiVo got people "programmed" that is the only way to watch two programs that are on "right now". And IMHO... that is why people are so adimit about DLB... because that is what they know.... and don't want to change.


I agree. I would be the first to stand-up and admit that TiVo programmed me to the DLB feature, but I would also admit it if I found a feature that replaced / changed it and I enjoyed it more. I can totally say that I was someone that very much enjoyed the 30s skip on a TiVo, but IMO D* made an improvement in this area with the 30s slip. It gives you the ability to move 30s very quickly AND advance to the end of a recording. TiVo could not integrate the 'advance to the end' feature with the 30s skip, but D* was able to and I give them alot of credit for that. Both could still be refined, but the concept is better.

I don't want to get into a debate over the differences between recording two programs at once and DLB, but there are problems with NOT having DLB. If my HDD has a limited amount of space left, I can't record that other program I want to 'buffer' without deleting some shows. This can occur VERY frequently especially because of how much space HD programming takes up. Also, I can't pause one recording and hit 'Live TV' or the down arrow to move to the other recording. I either have to go into the List and play the other 'buffer' to keep the pause point (VERY, VERY tedious) or hit the prev button and fast forward, rewind, etc. to the point I had been watching (again, tedious). You also have much more maintenance on the HDD with having to go into the List much more often to delete those 'buffered' programs once they end.

I would be more than willing to give D* a chance if they could come up with a concept that is a better or similar experience than DLB, but the problem many people seem to have is that they don't have any feature that comes close to this feature other than recording two channels at once, which has many problems.
Thanks for DLB!! Best feature available on a DVR, bar none!

#19 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 12:28 PM

Wow, this thread is going down fast.

A dvr has two purposes in my mind: replace my VCR and to replace my STB so I can receive signals in one unit. I like being able to watch live TV with the live TV enhancements provided by a DVR: pause, backup, then fast forward again to live AND two tuners. For this reason I no longer have receivers, only DVRs as my STBs. Will these features be limited to DVRs? Not if I'm reading the tea leaves correctly: live pause and playback will appear everywhere.

I also like the features of a DVR that enhance my recording and later viewing experience formerly done by VCRs: including two things at once, overlapped recording (an HR20 feature), theoretical automated recording (Comedy Central not helping...), etc. That is why for all my recording devices, I have DVRs.

Why is there this battle brewing? I like to watch TV my way with the promised features of a true DVR that enhances both the live AND the recorded viewing experience. I know it's not too much to ask--it has been done.

Why is there this argument and ego-centric design limitation that a DVR is only a VCR replacement? A DVR is both a receiver and a recorder. A good one does both. A great one enhances both. Lamontcranston's survey is excellent as it recognizes that simple fact: a DVR is both an STB and a recorder.

My humble viewing opinion,
Tom

You are right... you can watch live programming...
And you can time shift two things at once... simply hit record on that second program (or the first as well).

That is the entire benefit of a DVR... timeshift it...
Just because you don't have a floating buffer that already does the recording for you.

And you can do just what you asked... you can "buffer" two programs within a pre-set length of time... that pre-set length of time, is the stated length of the program. Instead of a fixed 30 minute buffer (As it is in the TiVo).

If that 2nd program is THAT important, that you must watch it at the same time as another... record it...watch it when the first one is done.

"TiVo open the eyes"... TiVo got people "programmed" that is the only way to watch two programs that are on "right now". And IMHO... that is why people are so adimit about DLB... because that is what they know.... and don't want to change.


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#20 OFFLINE   richlife

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 12:39 PM

I love it -- a new DLB thread :beatdeadhorse: and one that Earl is actively arguing on! :bang :bang :bang

C'mon Earl -- you're giving (and taking) some pretty good shots. :uglyhamme :uglyhamme But, 'fess up. You really want DLB too. It makes so many aspect of tv viewing just simpler and more enjoyable. :goofygrin :goofygrin

I don't want it to be like Tivo. I don't want it as an "upgrade". I just want DLB so I can enjoy uncomplicated tv (and record when I want to, not because I have to just to keep up with two current shows -- yuck! :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: ).

In other words:
I WANT MY D - L - B !!!
:joy: :dance01: :joy: :dance01: :joy:

You are right... you can watch live programming...
And you can time shift two things at once... simply hit record on that second program (or the first as well).

That is the entire benefit of a DVR... timeshift it...
Just because you don't have a floating buffer that already does the recording for you.

And you can do just what you asked... you can "buffer" two programs within a pre-set length of time... that pre-set length of time, is the stated length of the program. Instead of a fixed 30 minute buffer (As it is in the TiVo).

If that 2nd program is THAT important, that you must watch it at the same time as another... record it...watch it when the first one is done.

"TiVo open the eyes"... TiVo got people "programmed" that is the only way to watch two programs that are on "right now". And IMHO... that is why people are so adimit about DLB... because that is what they know.... and don't want to change.


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