Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

FCC Approves Dish Acquisition of Sky Angel's Transponders at 61.5°


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
55 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Topic Starter
  • Super Moderators
  • 41,176 posts
  • LocationMichiana
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 12 June 2007 - 01:29 PM

If it is anything like other things that Dominion says (like having their own uplink center that they said that they would have ever since they started service) it may take longer than that. I also expect to see a "class action" (lawsuit) from "lifetime" subscribers who are no longer going to be able to get the service via satellite and will be required to pay for another receiver that might not have all the (DVR, two tuners) features that their current receiver has.

SkyAngel has always piggybacked off of E* equipment ... so not having the features of E* receivers is not their concern. Moving to IPTV could actually add other features, such as a rewind (watch anything that was on in the past 48 hours). When you're doing one to one communications over the net you might as well stream what people want instead of what is on now.

Not having broadband is the killer though ... that and asking "lifetime" subscribers to buy a $120 receiver plus $25 per month service (their Canadian rates). Perhaps when IPTV is released the rates will be better ... I doubt it.

There are "lifetime" subscribers who believe they got their money's worth ... but won't give another dime to the company. Unfortunately that applies to the satellite model as well. SkyAngel depends on people who support whether or not they are getting their money's worth.

One more interesting thought ... let a ViP-622 DVR or ViP-211 be a SkyAngel terminal. That would help, for those on E* with broadband.
Welcome to DBS Talk - Let's talk about DBS! (The Digital Bit Stream)
DISH Network vs DirecTV: HD Channel List - DISH Network HD Capacity, HD Conversion and more.
DISH Network complete channel lists and lists by satellite location are in The Uplink Activity Center.
Unless otherwise noted, I speak for myself. Content is not controlled by DISH Network, DirecTV or any other company.

...Ads Help To Support This Site...

#27 OFFLINE   sansha

sansha

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 90 posts
Joined: Apr 27, 2007

Posted 12 June 2007 - 01:53 PM

"Not having broadband is the killer though ... that and asking "lifetime" subscribers to buy a $120 receiver plus $25 per month service (their Canadian rates). Perhaps when IPTV is released the rates will be better ... I doubt it."

They can't expect lifetime subbers to pay for service. The receiver yes, service, no.

And from what I hear, the reciever isn't necessary if you are willing to watch on your computer.

#28 OFFLINE   awp

awp

    Cool Member/Supporter

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 28 posts
Joined: Jun 01, 2004

Posted 13 June 2007 - 07:48 PM

[quote name='James Long']..........

E* paying for satellite uplink and delivery per their arrangement and non-lifetime customers whatever "other costs" there were (billing, advertisement, production for Angel-2, etc) they added channels that wanted rights fees. Now they are going a different way. They, like Voom, have failed.

So who is the next contestant? For the FCC to block this transfer there needs to be another viable bid for use of that space. Some company who can afford to launch a satellite (no guarantee that E* will lease E3 to them) and provide receivers and all the ground support for a DBS system. I don't see that happening.

QUOTE]

All DBS (D* and E*) is walking dead. I give it 5 maybe 10 years max afterwhich it will be a niche service for the most remote rural areas. Ground based Internet Protocol TV (IPTV) will replace it all as well as QAM cable signals. It will take fiber to the curb or fiber to the home, however only that will offer the unlimited *TWO WAY LOW LATENCY* bandwidth needed for the home entertainment services of the future.

Cable TV providers *might* be able to survive here by converting ALL QAM channels to DOCSIS internet service.

#29 OFFLINE   rocatman

rocatman

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 815 posts
Joined: Nov 27, 2003

Posted 14 June 2007 - 04:00 PM

If Dish gets the okay from the FCC, they could put the Sky Angel channels on the two TPs that they have permission to use temporarily i.e., TPs 23 and 24 since eventually Sky Angel will phase out their service via satellite. The FCC required notification to customers when using these "STA" TPs of the possible loss of service would be no big deal since the service will soon be terminated anyway.

#30 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Topic Starter
  • Super Moderators
  • 41,176 posts
  • LocationMichiana
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 14 June 2007 - 04:19 PM

As long as SkyAngel's service consumes two transponders it doesn't help or hurt E* to move them around on the satellite.

#31 OFFLINE   digiblur

digiblur

    Guest

  • Registered
  • 106 posts
Joined: Jun 10, 2005

Posted 14 June 2007 - 07:15 PM

I don't remember exactly how long it took for the Rainbow1 transfer, but it was less than a year. Good point about needing a replacement for E3. This deal adds "1.75 transponders" until E* can get a fully working satellite up there. (I suspect that won't take long.)

If I had to make a wild guess about the future I would say 61.5° would be one of the the target orbital locations for the new MPEG4 service. But that is a wild guess.


I still think E* was playing games with the SkyAngel TP partially failing.

#32 OFFLINE   JohnH

JohnH

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 7,802 posts
Joined: Apr 22, 2002

Posted 14 June 2007 - 08:12 PM

I still think E* was playing games with the SkyAngel TP partially failing.


I suspect Sky Angel requested an additional data feed and the bandwidth consumed by that required shutting down 3 channels. The failure explanation never worked here.

#33 OFFLINE   Doggfather

Doggfather

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 72 posts
Joined: Apr 19, 2004

Posted 15 June 2007 - 08:16 AM

The NYC channels etc will move to SPOTS on 61.5.... They will be firing up the Rainbow-1 spots for east coast locals. Putting locals on national tr's is a big waste of space. I kind of hoped that NYC and LA will stay conus but it is understandable as to why they wont. Ciel-2's spots @ 129 in a year from now will take the LA HD's to spot vs conus.

-D

#34 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Topic Starter
  • Super Moderators
  • 41,176 posts
  • LocationMichiana
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 15 June 2007 - 03:29 PM

Spots only save space if you put up more than one of them on a transponder. Voom (Cablevision) designed R1 (now called E12) with a lot of spot beams but they also need a lot of uplink centers to use it all. The spots also serve cities across the country.

The NY HD LIL channels don't "need" to be seen outside of their area ... but until E* needs to share that transponder with another market (and only east coast markets are using 61.5°) there is no reason to move to spotbeam and plenty of reason not to (needing new uplinks to serve the spots).

Cost vs benefit.
Welcome to DBS Talk - Let's talk about DBS! (The Digital Bit Stream)
DISH Network vs DirecTV: HD Channel List - DISH Network HD Capacity, HD Conversion and more.
DISH Network complete channel lists and lists by satellite location are in The Uplink Activity Center.
Unless otherwise noted, I speak for myself. Content is not controlled by DISH Network, DirecTV or any other company.

#35 OFFLINE   joblo

joblo

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 484 posts
Joined: Dec 10, 2003

Posted 16 June 2007 - 08:05 PM

The NYC channels etc will move to SPOTS on 61.5....

NYC SD channels that are currently ConUS will remain so, because Northeast core slot (110/119) spots are saturated, and E* will never move NYC SD to a wing slot.

Re NYC HD, what James said.

#36 OFFLINE   derwin0

derwin0

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 538 posts
Joined: Jan 31, 2005

Posted 18 June 2007 - 06:04 AM

NYC SD channels that are currently ConUS will remain so, because Northeast core slot (110/119) spots are saturated, and E* will never move NYC SD to a wing slot.

He was talking about NYC HD, which is already on a wing slot.

#37 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Topic Starter
  • Super Moderators
  • 41,176 posts
  • LocationMichiana
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 18 June 2007 - 01:26 PM

He was talking about NYC HD, which is already on a wing slot.

Covered in the second line of joblo's post.

#38 OFFLINE   aegrotatio

aegrotatio

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 108 posts
Joined: Mar 27, 2006

Posted 25 June 2007 - 12:52 PM

Spots only save space if you put up more than one of them on a transponder. Voom (Cablevision) designed R1 (now called E12) with a lot of spot beams but they also need a lot of uplink centers to use it all. The spots also serve cities across the country.


Where was R1 supposed to be located initially?
I didn't think it really covers CONUS from 61.5?

#39 OFFLINE   JohnH

JohnH

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 7,802 posts
Joined: Apr 22, 2002

Posted 25 June 2007 - 01:07 PM

Where was R1 supposed to be located initially?
I didn't think it really covers CONUS from 61.5?


It is where is was supposed to be initially.

Sky Angel is being received in all of the 48 Continental States from 61.5, so coverage is somewhat ConUS, but it is not a "ConUS" slot.

#40 OFFLINE   aegrotatio

aegrotatio

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 108 posts
Joined: Mar 27, 2006

Posted 25 June 2007 - 02:53 PM

It is where is was supposed to be initially.

Sky Angel is being received in all of the 48 Continental States from 61.5, so coverage is somewhat ConUS, but it is not a "ConUS" slot.


Wow, in California it must look like it's getting signals bouncing off the ground, hehe.

Can anyone point to an R1 footprint map?
I seem to remember that Cablevision was always very secret about this bird being one of the first birds with more than a few spot beams.

#41 OFFLINE   JohnH

JohnH

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 7,802 posts
Joined: Apr 22, 2002

Posted 25 June 2007 - 02:59 PM

Wow, in California it must look like it's getting signals bouncing off the ground, hehe.


Not as bad as getting 148w here in Southeast PA. :)

#42 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Topic Starter
  • Super Moderators
  • 41,176 posts
  • LocationMichiana
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 25 June 2007 - 03:17 PM

R1 (E12) was designed for 61.5° ... with spot beams that cover major cities from the east coast across to Los Angeles. It is "ConUS", but not really a good angle from the West coast. Still, there were Voom DBS subscribers way out West.

It is a tighter pattern that E3 (also at 61.5°). Some people were annoyed when E* moved HD from E3 to E12 and their "off coast" viewing required a bigger dish or became impossible. :)

#43 OFFLINE   Michael P

Michael P

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,965 posts
Joined: Oct 27, 2004

Posted 25 June 2007 - 04:58 PM

OK, so what 61.5 transponders are currently coming of E3 vs E12?

I see a great disparity in signal strength on my 61.5 dish. I ended up tweaking it for the 2 Sky Angel transponders (I presume those are still E3).
An E* subscriber continuously since February 1997.

#44 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Topic Starter
  • Super Moderators
  • 41,176 posts
  • LocationMichiana
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 25 June 2007 - 05:47 PM

OK, so what 61.5 transponders are currently coming of E3 vs E12?

TNGTony keeps track of that kind of detail: http://ekb.dbstalk.com/61-5list.htm

E12 is not physically capable of covering the even channels 2 through 22 nor channels 25 through 32. It can cover odd channels 1 through 23 and 24.

E3 is 60% failed and can only cover 79% of the remaining transponders E* is responsible for serving at 61.5° (including serving up SkyAngel). Which leaves four transponders unusable at the moment.

I see a great disparity in signal strength on my 61.5 dish. I ended up tweaking it for the 2 Sky Angel transponders (I presume those are still E3).

Yep. E12 doesn't go that high.
Welcome to DBS Talk - Let's talk about DBS! (The Digital Bit Stream)
DISH Network vs DirecTV: HD Channel List - DISH Network HD Capacity, HD Conversion and more.
DISH Network complete channel lists and lists by satellite location are in The Uplink Activity Center.
Unless otherwise noted, I speak for myself. Content is not controlled by DISH Network, DirecTV or any other company.

#45 OFFLINE   davethestalker

davethestalker

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 322 posts
Joined: Sep 16, 2006

Posted 30 August 2007 - 01:58 AM

Could this mean that I can get all of SkyAngel's lineup without getting more equipment?

Or, does this mean that SkyAngel is being bought and then the satellites will be used for other things, which means SkyAngel will cease to exist?
ViP722
Western Digital 1TB My Book (Essentials Edition)
2 - VIP612
Eastern Arc
Pioneer PDP-5020FD (Cleveland Plasma)
Yamaha RXV2200

500GB 7200 RPM 1st Gen. PS3
Playstation Network ID: DaveTheStalker
Playseat: Tony Stewart Collectors Edition
Logitech G25
The Drive of Your Life


#46 OFFLINE   JohnH

JohnH

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 7,802 posts
Joined: Apr 22, 2002

Posted 30 August 2007 - 02:12 AM

No.

Search for discussion on Sky Amgel going to IPTV.

#47 OFFLINE   Aransay

Aransay

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 651 posts
Joined: Jun 19, 2006

Posted 30 August 2007 - 04:43 AM

regre it goes the slt hoerp of btn ades dahm

#48 OFFLINE   Richard King

Richard King

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 21,331 posts
Joined: Mar 25, 2002

Posted 30 August 2007 - 07:59 AM

Here's where Sky Angel is going... http://www.dbstalk.c...ead.php?t=89444
The Pump Don't Work 'cause the Vandals Took the Handles.

#49 OFFLINE   tpbrady

tpbrady

    Mentor

  • Registered
  • 31 posts
Joined: Sep 01, 2004

Posted 07 September 2007 - 06:55 PM

There seems to be some confusion about MPEG2 and MPEG4 and satellites. MPEG2 and 4 are ways to encode video. The satellite is not involved in the encoding process. A satellite will not be reserved for a single format. A transponder probably will because of the DVB standard. For example the Fairbanks and Juneau digital local channels are MPEG4 on the 148 satellite. The best assumption you can make on MPEG4 versus MPEG2 is that any new HD services will be MPEG4 only and be placed on satellites that people's dishes are viewing. That will probably be true for both DirecTV and DISH.

Digital locals do pose a significant problem. If all local broadcasters go digital on the prescribed date, DISH and DirecTV both face a problem of what resolution to send them in. They would love to send them in the native format provided (1080i HD for example) but would only do that in MPEG4 because they couldn't stand the bandwidth hit otherwise. For most local packages they will probably be forced to offer them in SD format and then start transitioning markets based on the production rates of receivers they could direct to upgrades. Their might be a few key markets where they offer them in a mix of formats, but that might be difficult since I am not sure if you can mix MPEG 2 and 4 in the same DVB multiplex. Even if they run a mix of formats, the lowest common denominator is MPEG2 meaning if they run MPEG4 for HD feeds they will still have to send the same stream in MPEG2SD raising the bandwidth ante.

The long pole in the tent is MPEG-4 set tops and then bandwidth. If they can produce and deploy enough set tops will they have enough bandwidth to send the locals in HD format?

#50 OFFLINE   rocatman

rocatman

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 815 posts
Joined: Nov 27, 2003

Posted 28 September 2007 - 02:33 PM

Post title says it all. Looks like Dish will have room for more HD. Now they just need to replace E-3. Perhaps it will be worth Dish moving E-6 from 110 to there at least temporarily. Here is the FCC website address:


http://fjallfoss.fcc...ment_key=595860




Protected By... spam firewall...And...