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Debating the Mission of SkyAngel


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#1 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 03:14 PM

A quick search of DBS Talk for "SkyAngel Lawsuit" finds the following threads:
FamilyNet and EE are off the air!
Sky Angel wins arbitration (Sky Angel news release)
Sky Angel wins arbitration
And the poll --
Does the SkyAngel lawsuit result encourage you to subscribe?

SkyAngel's side of the argument is available on their website here.
Discussion of that in this thread.

(Please note that the comments made in those threads were before I was a moderator and I've calmed down a lot and become more diplomatic since then.)
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#2 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 03:20 PM

A nugget from the SkyAngel news release linked above from the arbitration win:
(emphasis added)

From the very beginning, 24 years ago, when God placed a call on Robert W. Johnson Sr.'s life to create what today remains the world's only Christian Direct Broadcast Satellite “DBS” platform, our mission has never changed. Through the Lord's revelation, we knew then as we know today that the only method of assuring that the Gospel could be spread to the entire world — uninterrupted and unimpeded by geographic barriers, land lines and cables, and ever-changing, often hostile political boundaries — was via high-powered, wireless deep-space satellites owned and controlled by Christians totally committed to exclusively using this technology as a true instrument of helping to fulfill the "Great Commission." The satellite itself is then the platform — the "Angel in the Sky" — for the ministers, preachers and teachers of our age to first reach and disciple America and then to reach the most unreachable of God's lost children in the world.

My how times change.
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#3 OFFLINE   ibooksrule

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 05:05 PM

yea times change. I sometimes think sky angel changes their values to suit their needs at the time.

Its sad that they do that. They have a great idea but to change their founding values at a whim just to suit the changing times makes me want to leave them.

I would love to see more christian channels added but not at the expense of going away from their founding values.

#4 OFFLINE   Christopher Gould

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 05:50 PM

how was sky angel ever going to afford a satellite and uplink center with lifetime subs. they had a plan to build a satellite that would have broadcast to south america, africa, europe, and north america from 61.5, but youst make money to do this. how long was E going to let them piggyback, plus how long was the fcc going to let them not build there own satellite.

#5 OFFLINE   HDTVFanAtic

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 11:25 PM

how was sky angel ever going to afford a satellite and uplink center with lifetime subs. they had a plan to build a satellite that would have broadcast to south america, africa, europe, and north america from 61.5, but youst make money to do this. how long was E going to let them piggyback, plus how long was the fcc going to let them not build there own satellite.


yep.

Going to IPTV allows them the opportunity to increase their footprint potential from roughly 330 Million to over 6 Billion overnight.

It sounds as this is the most economical way to achieve their mission statement from 20 some years ago in the realities of 2007.

However, their lawsuits to stop E* from airing certain channels speaks louder than anything else their being in it for the money over spreading the gospel.

#6 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 02:37 AM

Going to IPTV allows them the opportunity to increase their footprint potential from roughly 330 Million to over 6 Billion overnight.

Without a lot of digging, I found that as of May 2006 Nielsen//NetRatings estimates that there are 102,488,000 homes in the U.S. that have a broadband connection. The increase of 23,915,000 homes over May 2005's figure includes (net) the 18,436,000 homes lost on the narrowband side. So while the broadband audience is growing (and hopefully later this month Nielson will update the figures) we are still a long way from the 330 Million in the U.S.

That being said, 102 million is a nice figure ... but to get to that 6 Billion figure you must explain how homes worldwide would be able to receive broadband - and, of course, how will SkyAngel sell and bill for international IPTV usage.

Via satellite has it's own complications ... they should have gone with a global footprint instead of ConUS due to the licensing issues - that is IF the goal is truly to reach the world with the gospel. The way SkyAngel has been run and the outlook for the future seems to be "reach the saved with what they already know". Not a bad thing (everyone needs to go from milk to meat) but certainly not evangelical.

Who is going to buy a $120 receiver and pay $25 per month (based on Canadian rates) to watch a smattering of Christian TV? Unbelievers? I don't think so! If this is a great commission project it needs to be available to those who have no already made a commitment to pay for Christian TV. The old satellite delivery method failed for the same reason.

I believe SkyAngel would have succeeded as a non-comm system. They managed to raise plenty of support even before the system was launched from donors who believed in the stated mission. If they would have actually met that mission people would be more likely to support them now.

They need to change their mission statement to match their actions. Their new mission statement should be along the lines of "to provide quality Christian entertainment and teaching to Christian homes in the US and Canada". No more false claims.

Nielsen//NetRatings figures: 6/21/06 Press Release

#7 OFFLINE   HDTVFanAtic

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 12:24 AM

[quote name='James Long']Without a lot of digging, I found that as of May 2006 Nielsen//NetRatings estimates that there are 102,488,000 homes in the U.S. that have a broadband connection. The increase of 23,915,000 homes over May 2005's figure includes (net) the 18,436,000 homes lost on the narrowband side. So while the broadband audience is growing (and hopefully later this month Nielson will update the figures) we are still a long way from the 330 Million in the U.S.

[/QUOTE]

330 Million is the footprint of 61.5W over USA and Canada as with a little more digging you would have found that the USA does not have 330 Million population.

[quote name='James Long']
That being said, 102 million is a nice figure ... but to get to that 6 Billion figure you must explain how homes worldwide would be able to receive broadband - and, of course, how will SkyAngel sell and bill for international IPTV usage.
[/QUOTE]

Billing is not my issue. 6 Billion is the potential reach.

Or perhaps you are telling us that Sky Angel already has 102 Million Households with their equipment in the USA already :rolleyes:

[quote name='James Long']
Via satellite has it's own complications ... they should have gone with a global footprint instead of ConUS due to the licensing issues - that is IF the goal is truly to reach the world with the gospel. The way SkyAngel has been run and the outlook for the future seems to be "reach the saved with what they already know". Not a bad thing (everyone needs to go from milk to meat) but certainly not evangelical.

[/QUOTE]

Global footprint - interesting....perhaps you can tell us what satellites have "Global footprints".:rolleyes:

[quote name='James Long']
Who is going to buy a $120 receiver and pay $25 per month (based on Canadian rates) to watch a smattering of Christian TV? Unbelievers? I don't think so! If this is a great commission project it needs to be available to those who have no already made a commitment to pay for Christian TV. The old satellite delivery method failed for the same reason.
[/QUOTE]

I had no idea that all customers in MDU and locations that had no way to access 61.5W yet have a broadband connection were all heathens :rolleyes:

[quote name='James Long']
I believe SkyAngel would have succeeded as a non-comm system. They managed to raise plenty of support even before the system was launched from donors who believed in the stated mission. If they would have actually met that mission people would be more likely to support them now.
[/QUOTE]

So did the PTL club and their lifetime memberships:rolleyes:

[quote name='James Long']
They need to change their mission statement to match their actions. Their new mission statement should be along the lines of "to provide quality Christian entertainment and teaching to Christian homes in the US and Canada". No more false claims.

Nielsen//NetRatings figures: 6/21/06 Press Release[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]

You remind me the pager king on 30 Rock......someone who cannot see that technology marches on - and for the mission you claim to support, IPTV is clearly the best solution - even if it makes you change out your "beeper" for a Cellphone.

#8 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 12:45 AM

330 Million is the footprint of 61.5W over USA and Canada as with a little more digging you would have found that the USA does not have 330 Million population.

Close: Population 302,117,013 at the moment. But the footprint you mention is irrelevant when it is illegal to sell the service via satellite to Canada (under Canadian law).

Billing is not my issue. 6 Billion is the potential reach.

Without billing SkyAngel would have to open up the system as FTA. Opened up as FTA ruins monthly billing. Ignore the issue if you want. Stupidity is not cool. I'd prefer FTA ... but that isn't the path SkyAngel is taking.

Global footprint - interesting....perhaps you can tell us what satellites have "Global footprints".:rolleyes:

Certainly a lot bigger than the DBS footprint that SkyAngel holds license to.

I had no idea that all customers in MDU and locations that had no way to access 61.5W yet have a broadband connection were all heathens.

That is not what I said. The question is how many "heathens" would bother to pay $120 plus $25 per month for SkyAngel's service. How many "heathens" used E* equipment (SkyAngel never built a receiver) and viewed the satellite for $14.99 or less per month (less before rate increases)? Are you HONESTLY expecting "heathens" to pay to be evangelized?

You remind me the pager king on 30 Rock......someone who cannot see that technology marches on - and for the mission you claim to support, IPTV is clearly the best solution - even if it makes you change out your "beeper" for a Cellphone.

IPTV is cool ... read my post a few posts back in this thread - but also UNDERSTAND that the evangelical goals stated by SkyAngel are NOT met with an expensive subscription system.

You might as well put TBN on E* as a $10 per month premium channel like Showtime instead of as a free OTA channel in markets across the US and PI channel on E*. "Free" gives people the chance to see the message without buying into it in advance. That is how you reach the "heathens". Not by charging them.

SkyAngel is not evangelism ... it is maintenance.
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#9 OFFLINE   HDTVFanAtic

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 11:10 PM

Close: Population 302,117,013 at the moment. But the footprint you mention is irrelevant when it is illegal to sell the service via satellite to Canada (under Canadian law).


Thanks for proving my point. With IPTV, there is no such restriction - in Canada or any other country.

Without billing SkyAngel would have to open up the system as FTA. Opened up as FTA ruins monthly billing. Ignore the issue if you want. Stupidity is not cool. I'd prefer FTA ... but that isn't the path SkyAngel is taking.


Thanks for proving my point again - IPTV solves this.

Certainly a lot bigger than the DBS footprint that SkyAngel holds license to.


that was a non-answer.

That is not what I said. The question is how many "heathens" would bother to pay $120 plus $25 per month for SkyAngel's service. How many "heathens" used E* equipment (SkyAngel never built a receiver) and viewed the satellite for $14.99 or less per month (less before rate increases)? Are you HONESTLY expecting "heathens" to pay to be evangelized?


And again, many people did not have access to 61.5W that might support SA. Heathens are not about to watch SA, free or for a fee.

IPTV is cool ... read my post a few posts back in this thread - but also UNDERSTAND that the evangelical goals stated by SkyAngel are NOT met with an expensive subscription system.

You might as well put TBN on E* as a $10 per month premium channel like Showtime instead of as a free OTA channel in markets across the US and PI channel on E*. "Free" gives people the chance to see the message without buying into it in advance. That is how you reach the "heathens". Not by charging them.

SkyAngel is not evangelism ... it is maintenance.


And only a fool would have ever thought SA was a vehicle for reaching the heathens of the world.

I observed long ago that any religious organization that offers you a lifetime sub/membership whatever for an upfront fee - isn't going to be around to fullfill that promise - and clearly isn't in the evangelistic business.

#10 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 19 June 2007 - 12:24 AM

Thanks for proving my point. With IPTV, there is no such restriction - in Canada or any other country.

So why isn't SkyAngel in other countries other than Canada? Because SkyAngel wants to CHARGE for their services. I'm surprised that they didn't start the US IPTV earlier (since $25 per month is greater than $15 per month).

BTW: Are you saying that there is absolutely no country in the world that restricts IPTV or plans to do so?

Thanks for proving my point again - IPTV solves this.

I'm not proving your points, I'm making my own points. The point is that SkyAngel's service is NOT an evangelical outreach to the world (as was stated by it's founder and is still stated by those representing SkyAngel). It is an entertainment company driven to extract cash from it's subscribers.

And again, many people did not have access to 61.5W that might support SA. Heathens are not about to watch SA, free or for a fee.

Certainly not for a fee ... and not for an increasing fee which is not only going up from ~$15 to likely ~$25 plus the price of broadband. For free ... someone might tune in to mock them, or in an hour of desperation when nothing else is working.

Or are you saying no "heathen" would ever watch 262 SkyAngel or any other free religious channel? And I do mean ever. Being free opens the door for evangelism.

And only a fool would have ever thought SA was a vehicle for reaching the heathens of the world.

Congratulations, you have just called SkyAngel fools. Evangelism is in their mission statement.

#11 OFFLINE   HDTVFanAtic

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Posted 19 June 2007 - 11:25 PM

Congratulations, you have just called SkyAngel fools. Evangelism is in their mission statement.


This has become very boring as clearly you have not read all the statements in context.

You have proven all my points, including this one.

SkyAngel was never the fool. They realized they were in the Entertainment business.

Only the customers and people here arguing that because they state something in a Mission Statement makes it true. Thats as comcial as people believing what Charlie Egan says - or that D* has the best possible HD Picture and doesnt do HDLITE on their MPEG4.

The only fools are those believing something in a Mission Statement makes it true.

#12 OFFLINE   dahenny

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 06:25 AM

I agree totally James. SA has never been an effective evangelistic tool. It just blesses the sheep of the fold.

And I agree with you, narnia777. I have 2 sons that already hog my dsl bandwidth, let alone what iptv would use. I don't think my pitiful 1200kbps speed would support it anyway.

#13 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 20 June 2007 - 12:01 AM

So a mission statement means nothing to a Christian ministry?
The great commission was a joke and He really didn't mean it?

Charlie Ergen has many faults (so do you and I) but one of Mr Ergen's faults isn't claiming to be a Christian or having a Christian business then operating otherwise. D* likewise is not a business claiming to be Christian.

SkyAngel has chosen the standard that they wish to be judged by - a very hard standard to live up to - I wish they would either try harder or be more honest in their own pubic statements about their goals.

That starts with their employees being honest in how they represent their company.
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#14 OFFLINE   FTA Michael

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Posted 20 June 2007 - 07:21 AM

Maybe this is a crazy idea, but I always thought that any religious station that wants to spread its message needs to lure non-believers into the tent. That means showing programming (sports, old movies, whatever) that would be attractive to heathens, then including "commercials" that address the benefits of switching to the station's flavor of religion.

Instead, most programming from religious stations preaches to the choir. Why? To reinforce viewers' existing faith? To raise money? Me, I always remember the parable of the lost sheep: "There will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent."
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#15 OFFLINE   garn9173

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 10:56 AM

To raise money?


Bingo!

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