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Cable Company claims 500 HD Channels


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79 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   braven

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 04:40 AM

:sleeping:
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#27 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 10:43 AM

Agreed. At the same time, it is an "embellishment" of the BS that DIRECTV started in an attempt to defend their EOY 2007 claims.


No, it is not. Your anti-D* bias is showing.

D* claimed they will be able to have up to 150 HD channels. That means 150 streams. When couting the ACTUAL programming, they may not have 100 or 150 fulltime channels but they will still have the capacity for 150 HD channels if they were all turned on at the same time.

The cable claims are insane and are no one's defintion of a channel. Period.

D* was using accepted terms. Cable is just lying.
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#28 OFFLINE   Dolly

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 12:26 PM

I don't think I'll be starting a thread that I think is funny any more :rolleyes:

#29 OFFLINE   cavihitts

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 12:31 PM

I don't think I'll be starting a thread that I think is funny any more :rolleyes:


It's not your fault. In some cases, you can learn from these discussions. Often these topics end up going into the technology and some interesting things are said. After all they are just expressing their opinions and some of those are fact based.

#30 OFFLINE   mhayes70

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 12:39 PM

If Directv counted it's HD VOD when it start's wouldn't that put them up to 500 also?? :whatdidid

#31 OFFLINE   Dolly

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 12:49 PM

I do like all the many things I have learned and that I continue to learn here, but sometimes what was meant as a light hearted thread can get rather heavy :rolleyes: I guess my humor is not in tune with other posters :(

#32 OFFLINE   mhayes70

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 01:06 PM

I do like all the many things I have learned and that I continue to learn here, but sometimes what was meant as a light hearted thread can get rather heavy :rolleyes: I guess my humor is not in tune with other posters :(


Your fine. These little battles are common. You just get everybody debating. You always have the pro Directv, Pro Dish, and Pro cable people that will put there 2 cents in. I think that is what makes is a little fun.

But, sometime it does get out of hand and the mods will stop it.

#33 OFFLINE   Drew2k

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 03:00 PM

You always have the pro Directv, Pro Dish, and Pro cable people that will put there 2 cents in.

And oddly enough, with all three groups we're still somehow not even making 5 cents worth of sense! :)

#34 OFFLINE   mhayes70

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 03:11 PM

And oddly enough, with all three groups we're still somehow not even making 5 cents worth of sense! :)


:lol:

#35 OFFLINE   rjdude

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 05:00 PM

...You always have the pro Directv, Pro Dish, and Pro cable people that will put there 2 cents in...


...and what's interesting is that you'll find them all HERE or on other D*/SAT boards. Have any of you D* supporters gone over to their (Comcast or other cable co's) boards? Not me. I could care less what's going on over there...

#36 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 05:37 PM

D* claimed they will be able to have up to 150 HD channels. That means 150 streams. When couting the ACTUAL programming, they may not have 100 or 150 fulltime channels but they will still have the capacity for 150 HD channels if they were all turned on at the same time.

I'm not arguing the 2004 claims (other than the time table). In 2007, they upped the ante to actual channels of programming. Later, it a fit of sanity, they returned to the "up to" claim, but at CES, they were claiming 100 total national HD channels from more than 70 providers.

The cable claims are insane and are no one's defintion of a channel. Period.

If you buy DIRECTV's definition of a channel, then it isn't a big leap.

D* was using accepted terms. Cable is just lying.

D* was using terms that they twisted and cable just twisted them a lot harder. With Switched Digital, cable may well be able to provide you with 500 choices that you can play at the press of a few buttons on the remote.

The term channel used to represent one more or less continuous stream of programming. It could be shared by two channels or be filled with a bunch of first-run movies or events, but you could always expect to find something when you keyed in that channel number. D* redefined it to include events. They made their bed and now they have to sleep in it.

If SDV progresses to its logical conclusion, cable may be able to provide a different D* style channel to each cable box in their system.

#37 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 05:45 PM

If SDV progresses to its logical conclusion, cable may be able to provide a different D* style channel to each cable box in their system.


They may, but it still is presented as a single channel.

A channel is still a channel. Not a VOD program. If that is the case, then D* will have hundreds to thousands, too.

Sorry, cable is not twisting what D* already twisted. Cable is changing the definitions, which is lying since they do not clarify the definitions. Using an accepted term in different ways than is acceptable and not clarifying it is lying.

D* did not lie.
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#38 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 05:48 PM

If Directv counted it's HD VOD when it start's wouldn't that put them up to 500 also?? :whatdidid

If you count VOD as a channel. Given that the VOD bandwidth will be primarily the subscriber's Internet capacity, they can't count all of it -- only the portion of VOD that gets preloaded onto their DVRs off the satellites.

I believe that when all is said and done, VOD isn't going to live up to people's expectations.

#39 OFFLINE   Drew2k

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 05:52 PM

OK, somebody lend these guys a ruler... Just whip them out, measure them up, and let's be done with this, ok?

Other than personal grudges or pride, does it matter who's twisting more or less (Cable or DirecTV) or who started it? What matters to me is who is going to greatly expand their HD line up first, and by all accounts the winner will be DirecTV. End of story for me.

#40 OFFLINE   jpl

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 06:01 PM

I think it does matter. And for the record, I agree with Harsh. Both claims made - by DirecTV and by Comcast - are silly, and border on deceptive advertising. By no sane definition is a broadcast of 3 hours per week considered a channel. Nor is a VOD stream. I do think that Comcast's claim goes further out on the limb than DirecTV's - but Harsh is right... DirecTV laid the groundwork for this type of nonsense, and Comcast is just one-upping them.

Now, why does it matter? Because there are going to be lots of really ticked off customers when they find out that the numbers don't add up - customers of either company. I've said this before - both companies are just begging for Congress to get involved and help the TV industry define what fair advertising is. And I think that would be horribly unfortunate. Right now what's needed is LESS regulation in the industry... not more. But when both companies play these type of semantic games, it's hard to take them seriously when they make petitions before the FCC or the FTC (like when DirecTV and Dish wanted to merge). This garbage hurts the industry overall, by increasing regulation, and therefore price on the consumer.

#41 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 06:09 PM

A channel is still a channel. Not a VOD program. If that is the case, then D* will have hundreds to thousands, too.

But D* won't be able to deliver all of those movies via satellite. CATV and telcos will likely carry a lot of the D* VOD content.

D* did not lie.

When you use such peculiar conditions as surveying professional home theater installers to come up with a claim of the best PQ in the industry, you're bending the truth to the point that you may never get it back.

D* is lying because they haven't offered up the definition of "channel" as they are using it. Their usage is at odds with the definition of the word.

A specified frequency band for the transmission and reception of electromagnetic signals, as for television signals.



#42 OFFLINE   Drew2k

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 06:15 PM

I think it does matter. And for the record, I agree with Harsh. Both claims made - by DirecTV and by Comcast - are silly, and border on deceptive advertising. By no sane definition is a broadcast of 3 hours per week considered a channel. Nor is a VOD stream. I do think that Comcast's claim goes further out on the limb than DirecTV's - but Harsh is right... DirecTV laid the groundwork for this type of nonsense, and Comcast is just one-upping them.

So you still think there is "nonsense" on DirecTV's part, after they have issued press releases listing the actual channels they will deliver? I believe there were more than 75 total ...

Now, why does it matter? Because there are going to be lots of really ticked off customers when they find out that the numbers don't add up - customers of either company.

Outside of any missteps at CE 2007, hasn't DirecTV been making it clear that they are expanding capacity to up to 150 channels, and haven't they announced the agreement with more than 75 channels set to debut in HD this fall? How will DirecTV customers feel slighted?

This garbage hurts the industry overall, by increasing regulation, and therefore price on the consumer.

I agree with your sentiment, but by my observations, DirecTV has taken steps to very publicly announce what they are doing, and as long as they deliver Phase 1 this year with 75+ HD channels, I think the only ones who will be upset are the cable companies.

#43 OFFLINE   jpl

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 06:24 PM

So you still think there is "nonsense" on DirecTV's part, after they have issued press releases listing the actual channels they will deliver? I believe there were more than 75 total ...

Outside of any missteps at CE 2007, hasn't DirecTV been making it clear that they are expanding capacity to up to 150 channels, and haven't they announced the agreement with more than 75 channels set to debut in HD this fall? How will DirecTV customers feel slighted?

I agree with your sentiment, but by my observations, DirecTV has taken steps to very publicly announce what they are doing, and as long as they deliver Phase 1 this year with 75+ HD channels, I think the only ones who will be upset are the cable companies.


But they're including things like NFL ST in that 75 channel sum. And as far as I'm aware, that disclaimer wasn't laid out in a press release - it was admitted to by a senior executive in some interview that was done. I've yet to see that disclaimer in a single ad. And as for that channel list that they've announced, again I've seen no time-table for most of them. When are they adding CNN HD, e.g.? They said that those channels are coming... and they said that they'll be at 70+ channels by the end of the year - the implication being that all those channels that they listed in that release will be in that initial roll-out. That's where I think they're being deceptive. That initial sum of 70+ channels includes NFL ST and the like. Many of the channels in that list that they released will most likely not be in that initial roll-out.

Will DirecTV have alot of HD channels? I have no doubt that they will. They're making it a priority and they've worked out quite a number of deals with channel providers, but they are really stretching it in their advertizing. I balk every time I see that Pamela Anderson ad talking about DirecTV's stunning 1080i HD. I see that, and then I go off and read the thread about how crappy the MHD preview looks.

I've already stated my concern. When companies start playing semantic games like this (and make no mistake, that's exactly what DirecTV is doing) they're just asking for oversight.

#44 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 06:30 PM

I agree with your sentiment, but by my observations, DirecTV has taken steps to very publicly announce what they are doing, and as long as they deliver Phase 1 this year with 75+ HD channels, I think the only ones who will be upset are the cable companies.

I want to point out that they have been very vocal about their plans, but until something really happens, they are still just plans. Adding plan after plan to the original plans and claims of numerous agreements hasn't delivered any long-term content.

Whatever they manage to do will be to the good, but it will be difficult to live up to the hype that they have created and you can bet that CATV and the "I told you so" types will not be merciful in the event that D* misses their high standard.

#45 OFFLINE   Dolly

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 07:17 PM

...and what's interesting is that you'll find them all HERE or on other D*/SAT boards. Have any of you D* supporters gone over to their (Comcast or other cable co's) boards? Not me. I could care less what's going on over there...

I guess that is one of my biggest surprises :eek2: I'm a D person so I don't go anywhere else :nono2:

#46 OFFLINE   Jeremy W

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 10:42 PM

...and what's interesting is that you'll find them all HERE or on other D*/SAT boards. Have any of you D* supporters gone over to their (Comcast or other cable co's) boards? Not me. I could care less what's going on over there...

No, I never go on the other boards. I don't feel a need to, I am secure in my choice.

#47 OFFLINE   Steve Mehs

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Posted 26 June 2007 - 12:41 AM

...and what's interesting is that you'll find them all HERE or on other D*/SAT boards. Have any of you D* supporters gone over to their (Comcast or other cable co's) boards? Not me. I could care less what's going on over there...


Well there really are no dedicated Cable TV boards, or at least ones that get more than a dozen posts a week. At this point in time, after over 7 years, I have absolutely no interest in ever going back to satellite, but I have no intention of not visiting this site on a daily basis either.
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#48 OFFLINE   braven

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Posted 26 June 2007 - 04:21 AM

No, I never go on the other boards. I don't feel a need to, I am secure in my choice.




Ding ding ding ding, we have a winner! While I do check out the E* forums, I never spotlight E* faults. What good does it do?
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#49 OFFLINE   jpl

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Posted 26 June 2007 - 05:30 AM

Well there really are no dedicated Cable TV boards, or at least ones that get more than a dozen posts a week. At this point in time, after over 7 years, I have absolutely no interest in ever going back to satellite, but I have no intention of not visiting this site on a daily basis either.


I'm in line with you. I was a DirecTV customer for 5 years, and have a real interest in what's going on in the industry overall. Even though I'm now a FiOS customer, I still like to see what's going on here. There are LOTS of changes going on in the industry in general, and I'll be honest, I like to see what DirecTV is doing and this forum is a great resource for that. I think it always pays to keep tabs on what the other guys are doing. I think that's especially true now, more than ever, since the competition between these providers has never been fiercer than it is now (this whole thread is a testament to that). It's sort of like politics - everyone follows what California does for one reason - it's a really big state (the largest by far in terms of population) and what happens there legislatively tends to spread around the country.

Well, DirecTV and Comcast are both mammoth TV service companies, and by following what either is doing, you're likely to see what's going to come down the pike -- e.g. DirecTV may not have invented the DVR, but they were the ones that laid the ground-work to make it an indispensible tool, and Comcast likewise laid the groundwork for VOD. I've never had a real soft spot for Comcast, but I'm grateful that they're there. If not for them, would DirecTV even be considering implementing VOD? I don't think so.

#50 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 26 June 2007 - 06:55 AM

In case you missed, here's one site's best guess at what D*'s 100 HD channels will be. Note that two of them are "TBD", and the list includes no PPV or VOD channels, AFAIK. It does include 9 NFL "Sunday Ticket" channels, however. /s

http://hdtvmagazine....ctv_-_the_m.php
/steve




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